Segregation: A Modest Proposal

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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:35 pm

Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:17 am wrote: There is no resegregation trend.


Great phrasing. A lot to unpack there.

First and foremost, certainly this thread is a winking joke -- it's about the lunatic fringes of the Social Justice movement and the curious inversions that high-conviction, low-information activists inevitably lead to. I see no harm in enjoying that irony like fine wine.

Resegregation, as top-down policy, is effectively impossible. Even here in Burlington, VT, where for years now, the big drug busts are black men from New Jersey and New York, the notion of racial profiling is repulsive, and not just to local liberals. It's increasingly impossible to grow up in Vermont with All White Friends, and that factor alone gives you the empathy to recognize that being stopped 3x in a single day is insulting, infuriating, and piss poor law enforcement. (This is probably why all those "big drug busts" are happening in coordination with Federal LEOs who have the resources for targeting vs. profiling -- ie, these guys have been under surveillance for days before their actual arrest.)

The fact BTV is a shelter city, both for migrant workers (Ben & Jerrys Doesn't Care About Working Americans) and refugees, has also given even the thickest hicks an appreciation for the fact that "Black People" is not a monolithic category, or that "Hispanics" are not "Mexicans." In fact, I recently over-heard an argument in our warehouse's packing department about whether Ghana or Nigeria produced harder workers. These are the same guys who recently informed me The Martian was "faggot bullshit." Progress is asymmetrical.

What's interesting, though, is that resegregation as bottom-up emergent phenomena is A Thing. Ferguson, MO wasn't created, but it happened just the same.

Via: http://journalistsresource.org/studies/ ... t-research

There are mounting worries on the part of many observers that, although the country is indisputably becoming more diverse at the general level, complex patterns are unfolding that are producing more racially segregated pockets across America. Some news stories have begun to look at these dynamics. For example, a May 2014 series, “Segregation Now,” by Nikole Hannah-Jones of the investigative news outlet ProPublica, provides a deep examination of how the early gains of integration have been eroded in Tuscoloosa, Ala., which in 2000 was released from federal court oversight of its school system. ProPublica found that “from 1993 to 2011, the number of black students in schools where 90 percent or more of the student population are minorities rose from 2.3 million to over 2.9 million.”

...

A 2012 report from UCLA’s Civil Rights Project, “E Pluribus…Separation: Deepening Double Segregation for More Students,” notes that “nationwide, the typical black student is now in a school where almost two out of every three classmates (64%) are low-income, nearly double the level in schools of the typical white or Asian student (37% and 39%, respectively).” The report, by Gary Orfield, John Kucsera and Genevieve Siegel-Hawley, frames the evidence bluntly: “Fully 15% of black students, and 14% of Latino students, attend ‘apartheid schools’ across the nation, where whites make up 0 to 1% of the enrollment.”


There's a lot more at that link, both corroborating and challenging those conclusions.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Luther Blissett » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:27 pm

I fully appreciate that there are factors in the New Jim Crow, gentrification, gerrymandering, and general class warfare committed by the top contributing to some resegregation happening / being forced. But I didn't believe in any people-powered desire to desegregate from the bottom up. On the whole, civilization is moving together, with most studies predicting that around 66% of the world will live together in cities by 2050; in 2100, that will be about 80% if we survive the climate crisis. I know that there's some nuance to that with how we will live together and cooperate but I don't see people moving somehow backwards after the democratization of communication.

What do people expect their sons to think? Our granddaughters will be dating Tehranians on Magic Leap.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Elvis » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:08 pm

Luther Blissett wrote:But I didn't believe in any people-powered desire to desegregate from the bottom up.


Did you mean 'resegregate'?

Anyway, this will all get even more interesting when "whites" in the U.S. become a minority; I've read that Hispanics, together with other darker-skinned people, are expected to outnumber white Europeans in the foreseeable future.
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby backtoiam » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:02 pm

Did you mean 'resegregate'?


Clever and true.

Had sitting ducks not been traumatically coerced most would still be in their preferred flocks living their lives as they see fit.
Image

Instead they have been attempting to outrun psychological and physical manifestations of Mars and forced into places they never wanted to be in the first place. After arriving being taught to hate all the other ducks, because of course, all the other colored ducks are mean ducks. I doubt the people of Mexico wanted to be starved into desperate river swimmings and long difficult land travels. I also doubt the people in the middle east wanted to leave their homes and try to find a place to live.
Image


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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:25 pm

I hadn't imagined visiting this thread. I'm glad I read Mr. Wrex's comment above first.
First and foremost, certainly this thread is a winking joke -- it's about the lunatic fringes of the Social Justice movement and the curious inversions that high-conviction, low-information activists inevitably lead to. I see no harm in enjoying that irony like fine wine.

But about this:
(This is probably why all those "big drug busts" are happening in coordination with Federal LEOs who have the resources for targeting vs. profiling -- ie, these guys have been under surveillance for days before their actual arrest.)


Indeed they were. And they were able to be intercepted anywhere from point of origin to destination. It's called spreading the wealth. (To demonstrate, of course, the dire need for increased funding for police forces in order to continue keeping such crime and its problems from infiltrating our beloved communities.)

Had sitting ducks not been traumatically coerced most would still be in their preferred flocks living their lives as they see fit.
Funny. Passenger pigeons had the same complaint. But we managed to quiet them down.

After all, it's not the intruders doing all the squawking.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Occult Means Hidden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:34 pm

I understand this isn't taken seriously. But I do suggest this thread be abandoned, lest some racist stray from the webs comes a crawling and takes a liking to the thread title and thinks of it as an invitation.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Elvis » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:12 pm

...or re-titled as "a modest proposal"?
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:15 am

I'm going to err on the side of my laziness and our general in-joke culture, here.

I am definitely sympathetic to these concerns; I just feel we're so far past that inflection point that fixing this is a lot like fixing nothing.

For instance, our 100+ page "Fuck Obama" thread might send the wrong message, too.

As I always say, noise is good, chaff is better.

This thread will wax or wane in direct proportion to crazy stupid shit getting posted on Salon.

We'll see.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby coffin_dodger » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:11 am

and, on cue..
Black woman's racist rant on a London bus BBC News 16 October 2015

Footage showing a woman's anti-Muslim tirade on a London bus has prompted a discussion about the fact that the abusive woman is black.

The video was filmed on a bus in north-west London and uploaded to Facebook on Wednesday. It starts with a woman in the middle of a rant. She's shouting and swearing at a pregnant Muslim woman, and threatening to kick her in the stomach.

The abusive woman goes on to lob several insults, calling the other woman an Islamic State supporter, a suicide bomber and saying: "go back to your country." At one point the bus driver stops the bus and tries to calm the woman down - to no avail. When the bus starts up again the confrontation escalates. The video was viewed more than 750,000 times before it was taken down or blocked on Friday morning (it's unclear who took it down and why).

cont - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-34549590
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby 82_28 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:57 am

Occult Means Hidden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:34 pm wrote:I understand this isn't taken seriously. But I do suggest this thread be abandoned, lest some racist stray from the webs comes a crawling and takes a liking to the thread title and thinks of it as an invitation.


Bring 'em in I say, so we can inspect them. They will be defeated. But might be fun to watch and could be something for someone somewhere for a fantastic thesis.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Elvis » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:54 am

coffin_dodger wrote:The video was filmed on a bus in north-west London and uploaded to Facebook on Wednesday. It starts with a woman in the middle of a rant. She's shouting and swearing at a pregnant Muslim woman, and threatening to kick her in the stomach.

The abusive woman goes on to lob several insults, calling the other woman an Islamic State supporter, a suicide bomber and saying: "go back to your country." At one point the bus driver stops the bus and tries to calm the woman down - to no avail. When the bus starts up again the confrontation escalates.



In my small (U.S.) city, that woman would have been put right off the bus.
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:40 am

Bring 'em in I say, so we can inspect them. They will be defeated. But might be fun to watch and could be something for someone somewhere for a fantastic thesis.


For some reason this sounds to me like the last words recorded by one of those who attended an ill-fated Ouija session.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby coffin_dodger » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:26 pm

For some reason this sounds to me like the last words recorded by one of those who attended an ill-fated Ouija session.


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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Twyla LaSarc » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:07 am

One last visit here.

A couple of days and still mulling this. I can only say




Solidarity is indeed our weapon, when we live it.


Can't we all just get along?


Now back to my tent to eat bon bons and check the stock market.
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Re: Segregation: A good idea making a comeback

Postby Project Willow » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:03 am

May I just wave my hands and say, somebody green or edit the thread title? It does matter to me.

As has been said, there is a huge difference between minority or oppressed groups self aggregating in temporary scenarios versus being forced into cordoned off areas or excluded from basic services by the dominant group. Likewise, I support women-only spaces where safety and comfort are concerns.
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