Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

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Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:54 pm

What exactly constitutes a good vs. bad conspiracy theory?

I would say that any theory that relies primarily, and especially solely on the below "work in progress list" is probably, Bad.
Now, bear in mind the claim of the theory itself could actually be true.
I mean, even crazy people can hit on some truths, but have nothing but gibberish and delusions as supporting evidence.
The point is the crazy person is not going to convince anyone else of the true claim if they are trafficking in evidence, arguments, and speculations that isn't going to help the claim.

Obviously, the criteria below, are tentative, experimental and open to debate, modification, and additional entries.
And if others have time to put in what they think is the criteria for a Good conspiracy theory, that would be great.

Again, I don't think a theory is bad just for having any or all of the below, it is just when they rely primarily or solely on the below as argument or evidence to prove or convince that the theory is correct. Nor is this to dissuade people from gut feelings or speculation. I've had a shady feeling about Tony Scott's death, but knowing all I have to explore it would be some form of the below, I haven't proposed anything. But that doesn't mean it has stopped me from wondering.

1. Numerology.
I think numerology is interesting and mathematically there are probably numerous cycles and rhythms that effect, influence and cause untold number of events which can/could possibly be expressed mathematically. But you can do anything with dates and numbers, especially once you start piling on operations and assigning meaning to certain numbers, 3 means this, 7 means this, etc. Yes, numbers do have meaning, even culturally assigned ones, that probably influence things and how people interpret things but I think a conspiracy theory that relies on a combination of assigning meaning and doing numerous orders of operation to massage dates, addresses or other numbers involved in an event or related to a person is building a weak theory.

2. Evidence of things not seen.
Many theories build a case by hammering away on something that can't be unproven because "it is hidden". An example would be something like the missing double twin. So and so, had a twin who dies at birth. Or does he? So every reported uncharacteristic behavior, every sudden change in weight in a photo, every bad haircut in a photo, is example of the hidden twin being trotted out. Or a better, more lame, example would be so and so is really a reptilian overlord who has scaly lizard legs, which we never see because he never wears shorts. This can be extrapolated where the conspiracy is so airtight because the very existence of the perpetuators and their crimes are all unseen, unknowable excepting one or two dimensional or tactical breadcrumbs to build a mash potato mountain out of.

3. 7000 degrees of Kevin Bacon
So and so is an X because their Uncle's cousins, roommates, best friend's grandmother was Rommel's tailor. You know what I'm saying? Just as in every King's family tree is a slave and in every Slave's tree a King, we all have someone we are related to or associated with in some way tied to something nefarious. Sure, if you are a Koch brother then that is something, heck even if you are a Koch cousin, nephew, caddie, or long lost relative that is something, but if you are of the Kocsh family of Delaware who share a Great, great, great, great, uncle with them, then things get kind of dissipated. Also, geographic, occupational, military, school ties do mean something, but not always. Not everyone who goes to Yale is Skull and Bones, not that they wouldn't want to be per se, but just that alone doesn't mean they are dirty.

4. The Creative, Compelling Narrative
Sometimes a researcher or writer creates a compelling narrative teased from some facts and by using leading questions or suggestive criticism that pokes holes in an accepted, standard narrative to where the new critical, compelling narrative is so persuasive it has to be true. This may be, and can often be, done in a genuine and sincere attempt to find the real truth. The problem is the source material they are dealing with, may be not completely true to begin with, famous people have incredibly managed, incomplete, and hagiographic stories created or reminisced about. The compelling narrative though "fills the holes" explaining inconsistencies, unbelievable strokes of good and bad luck, or even the very reason for someones rise/fall. Because the new compelling narrative, one, explains any missing details or mystery, and two, provides a hidden solution, it acts as enlightenment in the form of super gossip which is more titilating to ponder. The Beatles couldn't have just been that good.

5. The Super Silly String Theory
Everything is explained away in the theory because everything is connected to the theory. People die, governments and countries fall, civilizations die out, but the theory keeps chugging away through the centuries, millennia, because those involved never take their eye of the conspiracy ball and have it all locked down and a contingency plan for everything. This makes the theory basically a creation myth where all the complexity of the world is simplified down to where the conspiracy theory is something even Cro-Magnon Man can wrap his head around it. "Zog Man Run World". For the theory to be so simple it has to be so all encompassing and powerful to where it becomes less a conspiracy than a basic law of nature, which probably explains why it shares the attribution and power of natural calamities to supernatural actors as did early man, earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, etc just don't happen, but Zog makes it so. Not to say that man isn't getting/hasn't gotten to the point where they can't manufacture/influence/exploit the effects these to some point, its just sometimes/often/frequently Nature is doing its own thing.

6. The Psychotic Semiotic Scrabble Game

Any theory that relies on hidden or reattributed meanings, but is either incredibly crude or dizzyingly obtuse, requiring Sigmund Freud and Umberto Eco, to break down the supposed real meaning of say, a movie poster, over a week long conference, is probably not giving the intended effect the person thinks on the public. Especially when the actual movie right next to it is providing that same "hidden" message in the buff for two hours straight which the public is eagerly and enthusiastically seeking out to affirm the message. Of course, subliminal messages, redirection, propaganda, etc. exists and is operating constantly, but deeper and more powerful methods of covert meaning making probably require more finesse and sophistication then a crude scrabbling of words and images that are tied to root meanings that the public is either unaware about from the beginning or the very creation of redirections would point to their existence. I mean how many teens do you think know the word MKULTRA now because it is a constant, reliable prop in countless action and thriller films now? Why would it have to be mangled and reconstituted in other films and mediums when it is recycled each week?

7. All the Puppets are Innocent

No one just goes on a shooting spree, kills themselves or dies anymore. The very fact of them being involved in such a thing points to a conspiracy or cover up. The evidence is that the primary event happened and you have to prove that it wasn't a cover up. Lack of evidence of it not being a cover up is further proof that it was a cover up. Unless there is full video of the event and the days leading up to the event, a video confession, years of blog entries, miles of forensic, ballistic and psychological evidence then they didn't do it. And if there is all that evidence, that just proves they were mind controlled, brain washed. Not to say that there hasn't been set up patsies and Manchurian candidates to some degree, and there can't continue to be, it just can't be assumed if such an event happens that by default they are so.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby semper occultus » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:08 pm

...to use a UFO-logical framework it pretty much depends on whether you are talking "nuts & bolts" para-politics that exists in the material plane or the far more elusive & subjective realm of high-weirdness that intersects with it in odd ways as individual or collecive experiences that often defy logical explanation but require more right-brain modes of thought to try to understand.....

.. the rigour or the intuition in other words....( ....that'd make a good name for a blog that considered such things ...)
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Occult Means Hidden » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:09 pm

Good

The improbability of individual data points and of its convergence with the whole. That is, data point one is found to be factual, although improbable. Same with other relevant data points so as their convergence stresses an outlier scenario against what we may have initially expected.

A physical or material abnormality exposed for public examination. Such as in the manner WTC fell, etc.

Bad

A failure to recognize that things can happen without top level direction and control. A bias assuming that all relevant events and connections can only occur by plan. When pressed, a failure to prove that assumption.
Rage against the ever vicious downward spiral.
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let us breathe together

Postby IanEye » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:05 pm

*


my poor heart aches
with every step you take

*



*


all you touch & all you see
is all your life will ever be

*
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:41 pm

semper occultus » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:08 pm wrote:...to use a UFO-logical framework it pretty much depends on whether you are talking "nuts & bolts" para-politics that exists in the material plane or the far more elusive & subjective realm of high-weirdness that intersects with it in odd ways as individual or collecive experiences that often defy logical explanation but require more right-brain modes of thought to try to understand.....

.. the rigour or the intuition in other words....( ....that'd make a good name for a blog that considered such things ...)


I don't really see the distinction. The "the far more elusive & subjective realm of high-weirdness that intersects with it in odd ways as individual or collecive experiences that often defy logical explanation but require more right-brain modes of thought to try to understand..." if a part of a theory, as compared to an experience, can still be vetted as either good or bad in support of the theory.

That is the issue in 85% of the films that Nicolas Cage stars in. Something has happened or will happen and Cage has to try and convince people of it, but based on more high weirdness criteria. Same goes for some heavier theories of Physics. Such and such has happened, is happening or will happen is theorized, but can't be confirmed unless such an event, or evidence of the event, is substantiated ultimately in the material plane and not just sketched out on paper.

Again, you can use rigor or intuition to propose a theory, doesn't really matter I think so much the origin of the theory, but the criteria for whether the theory is good or bad should be better defined. For some people, a theory that the world is run by malevolent beings on Jupiter being substantiated by physical evidence would be good criteria, for others someone remote viewing them would be good criteria. Agreeing on metrics ahead of time though I think would be a smart way to go.

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If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby 82_28 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:02 pm

I think conspiracy theories are simply a glimpse at the bigger picture. One might never know for what or why. They are just detectable and that is it. I don't think there is a definitive "bigger picture" in how we traditionally view the term "conspiracy theory". If you dabble in the possibilities any "theory" has to remain open ended. No beginning and no end. There is the clue to I suppose the conspiracy of the idea of the conspiracy theory.

If something rubs you the wrong way or makes you say there's no way this is the complete story. You have stumbled upon a conspiracy "theory" of some sort. It's all in the likely agenda and what you would do (where your heart is) if you made something bad or good happen. I'm of the school of thought that if I am feeling too up and everything is going great something must be wrong. So in essence it comes down to feelings. Feelings, we are told are not a way to discover truth or fact. Yet we run on feelings 100% of the time. There is factual truth in this.

So where do the feelings come from? They come from inside by dint of your lived experience and what you took from your various experiences at the time. Once something good or bad happens that touches you, you become a player in the factual existence of the myth and thus it takes form. But the bad ones come from a place with an agenda. The good ones come from a place of speculation and open inquiry. For instance there are quite a few people were I evil I could get back at 10 fold at least. They wouldn't see what was coming. I just happen to choose to do no evil. Once you start there is no stopping. Thus conspire to do nothing bad.

Whatevs. Just my quick $.02. . .
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:52 am

.

Well, you see, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. The truth is hidden somewhere in there...
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby tapitsbo » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:00 am

the proof of the conspiracy pudding is in the eating - what effect does it have on behaviour?

j/k

an overstated hyperbolic conspiracy theory rich in chewy data points will still disappoint - I want to be whispered subtle hints that ping synchronically on the edges of what I'd believed impossible
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:06 am

Very thorough outline. I quite liked it.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:19 pm

Well, all that's fine. Then some idiot (genius?) introduces Trump into the equation, and off we go scurrying down different paths of the warren, seeking understanding of the phenomena we're witnessing, the nightmare we're living.

We're sure ours will be the path to the nugget of wisdom we're seeking, our intuition prods us on.

Clinton plant? Egomaniac? Could we be so blessed to actually be witnessing the blossoming of a megalomaniac? (This guy has gleaned more free press than anything ever before. While distracted by all the trumpeting, what are we not being told about what's going on elsewhere around the world?)

A recurring meme, the illusion of democracy in action inaction.

Every four years a wrinkle in time, every two for those more vested in its perpetuation.

More succinctly, I believe Audrey best represents the meme.



In the end, it's all a mystery with no ending that ends all too abruptly, and had it an ending it would be one with no timely relevance at all. But it is uniquely ours, the mystery of our experience.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:23 pm

This thread just demonstrates (for about the 893rd time, at a rough guess) that Jamey Hecht got it unanswerably right over a decade ago:

MacCruiskeen » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:08 pm wrote:Jamey Hecht:

THE TERM ‘CONSPIRACY THEORY’

This phrase is among the tireless workhorses of establishment discourse. Without it, disinformation would be much harder than it is. “Conspiracy theory” is a trigger phrase, saturated with intellectual contempt and deeply anti-intellectual resentment. It makes little sense on its own, and while it’s a priceless tool of propaganda, it is worse than useless as an explanatory category.

http://www.911inquiry.org/Presentations/JameyHecht.htm


Some old RI threads:

Definition of the term "Conspiracy Theory"

Conspiracy Theories a Sign of Sane Thinking Study Shows

Mathias Broeckers' new book: 'JFK: Coup d’État in America'

Are conspiracy theories destroying democracy?

[Poll] A sticky thread for "'CT' in the media"?

The term is unsavable, worse-than-useless. It only ever serves to obfuscate. That's what it's for. (If you don't believe me, ask the CIA.) It's what the Germans call ein Kampfbegriff, roughly: a weaponised term.

So refuse it. There is no such thing as "a good conspiracy theory". It's a contradiction in terms. "Conspiracy theory" means "insane, foolish, evil and above all baseless speculation". As soon as you make the mistake of accepting the loaded terminology you have already lost the argument.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:09 pm

Oh, I agree 100% with Mac and Jamey Hecht. That was brilliant, I saw him deliver it in 2004, so indeed more than a decade ago. Don't even use the term. It predefines what you are looking at prior to looking, and gives it a derisive label that allows 90% to dismiss it as even a subject. That being said, brekin's OP is a decent list of common fallacies within the group of people who actually call themselves "conspiracy theorists." But of course the most common and already worst of these fallacies is call themselves CTs.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:03 pm

^^^^^
What the Riddler (and Mac) said above.
I've also echoed the same (more crudely) in past threads.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:52 pm

Reminds me of the tale of the folks in the dark room with the elephant; descriptions vary from individuals by the leg, ear, and trunk respectively, but the truth is that there is an elephant in the room. Don't step into the shit.

Would a conspiracy be if "actors" placed the individuals by the separate elephant parts and told them this is an elephant?

This is a basic trick used by intelligence and media dis-info or propaganda agents.

The social engineers that issue the CT of the day use numerology and cultural myths to make the narratives more palatable and to mask the source.

So we see flight numbers for 9-11 that are important Crowley and kabbalah magical numbers.

We see The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or their essence used again and again.

We see terms like Shock and Awe (Shekinah) or ISIS (goddess Isis) used in marketing campaigns for war.

Good list in OP.
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Re: Criteria of a Bad or Good Conspiracy Theory

Postby brekin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:59 pm

Image

It all gets very silly if in the process of trying to tighten up the old ship, we decide that it isn't sea worthy, no criteria to make it sea worthy, we should forget about repairs or inspections, keep on gazing at the stars and keep the drum circle going, throw out the charts, all the while still sailing out in the sea on it.

Shipmates, excuse my salty language, but this is basically a conspiracy theory website and we are all basically conspiracy theorists. Now some people may want to redesign the flag we sail under, putting a para-political, deep state, occult, para-psychology-normal, etc. patch up there, but why not just call a spade a spade? None of those terms are going to convince anyone, even ones self, when at heart you are trucking in theories of conspiracy. Yes, the reason the term has gotten so rank is because the category can both encompass the JFK assassination and Ickian Reptilians, but we are talking about what makes a good vs. bad conspiracy theory.

Yes, the term is loaded, but so is the term "marriage". Some people look at it at as a way for two people to express their union in life, while others look at it as form of sanctioned bondage. Fine, but when we throw good or bad in front of the term we have to then examine what makes a good one, or a bad one, thereby providing a basis for saying yes, using that criteria that would probably be considered a good or bad marriage, even if, especially if, you don't even believe marriage is the right course for couples, isn't quite the best term to use, etc. The fact is marriages exist, they happen all the time, some are better than others and there is criteria we can use to say what would be considered a good or bad marriage.

I'm a little bemused and more than a little surprised at the lack of interest, even aversion, to thinking a little closer and articulating what most of us discuss here anyways at the case by case level. Especially, when we all probably have criteria already that we are using to determine what makes a good vs. bad conspiracy theory that is operating, which we are more or less unaware of. Especially when most of the friction and endless feuds stem from people having completely different criteria that is the cause of most to all disagreements anyways. And the trotting out of the old canards of; rigor vs. intuition?, conspiracy theory = nasty word, "it's all a mystery, man", "I just like what I like", are really all just ways of ducking having to define, having to own, what one considers is a valid way of thinking about and rating things before we encounter them.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
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