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Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:58 pm
by Nordic
So 60 minutes did their thing, revealing exactly zero to what most of us here, and millions of people elsewhere, already knew.

Now we're getting articles like this:

http://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-cov ... le-in-911/

And this:

Saudi Arabia Warns of Economic Fallout if Congress Passes 9/11 Bill

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/wo ... -bill.html

So ... Why now? What has changed? What is going on behind the scenes?

I can only speculate.

Did the Saudis make some kind of deal with Russia? Regarding Syria, or oil production? Or the Petro Dollar?

Clearly something is up.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:06 pm
by Wombaticus Rex
Huge changes: http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ealth-fund

Saudi Arabia is planning to establish a $2tn (£1.4tn) sovereign wealth fund by selling off its state petroleum assets in preparation for a world beyond oil.

Greenpeace said it was a pivotal moment akin to Switzerland abandoning banking, but others claimed Riyadh had long wanted to diversify its economy and spread its wealth though it had failed to do so.

If the fund was built up to $2tn, it would be more than double Norway’s sovereign wealth fund, regarded as the largest in the world by assets.

The move was revealed by the country’s powerful deputy crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, and would mean the desert kingdom using its public investment fund (PIF) to buy up strategic financial and industrial assets abroad.

Some will see the move as a highly symbolic shift away from fossil fuels for a country most associated in the public eye with oil, but critics question whether it is more about style than substance.


I don't think anything the Saudis do for the next decade will be from a position of strength, they're on the defensive.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:24 pm
by Harvey
My instinct? If Saudi is in the cross hairs for 9/11, then others are more vulnerable and on the defensive, much closer to home for you guys in the states.

I mean, seriously, "Look! Over there, a Saudi!" So as you say, what gives? Any thoughts peeps?

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:26 pm
by Nordic
Wombaticus Rex » Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:06 pm wrote:Huge changes: http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ealth-fund

Saudi Arabia is planning to establish a $2tn (£1.4tn) sovereign wealth fund by selling off its state petroleum assets in preparation for a world beyond oil.

Greenpeace said it was a pivotal moment akin to Switzerland abandoning banking, but others claimed Riyadh had long wanted to diversify its economy and spread its wealth though it had failed to do so.

If the fund was built up to $2tn, it would be more than double Norway’s sovereign wealth fund, regarded as the largest in the world by assets.

The move was revealed by the country’s powerful deputy crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, and would mean the desert kingdom using its public investment fund (PIF) to buy up strategic financial and industrial assets abroad.

Some will see the move as a highly symbolic shift away from fossil fuels for a country most associated in the public eye with oil, but critics question whether it is more about style than substance.


I don't think anything the Saudis do for the next decade will be from a position of strength, they're on the defensive.


Wow. Maybe it's as simple as they're running out of oil. They will no longer be needed.

I wonder if this ties into the fact that Turkey seems to be the new entity that will do the dirty work for the empire.

I figured that was due to their convenient proximity to Syria. But maybe there's more to it than that.

Something else to think about: Yemen. We're helping the Saudis slaughter civilians there in what is quickly turning into a quagmire.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:27 pm
by semper occultus
Revelation of the Method ..innit... :wink

see Chris Knowles...they're "Re-building the Temple" in the ME & "on the Square" in London..

...you're looking at a highly weird year. And we're only a third of a way into it....

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:41 pm
by semper occultus
I wonder if this ties into the fact that Turkey seems to be the new entity that will do the dirty work for the empire......


...the Iranian deal aswell...

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:14 pm
by tron
i saw the news today, there is stuff going on with oil, sanctions have been lifted on iran so they are shifting production beyond what was before sanctions, opec? want them to stop this but they will not, saudi response is to ramp up production making oil so cheap that there is no point in having it.....need to find the news report....peace

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:24 pm
by 82_28
Not to slight the question, but hasn't there always been something going on with oil? Why can't it just be priced at an even sum? Sure, sure I understand there is volatility or some shit. But why? Look at all the shit that is made out of plastic around you.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:25 pm
by semper occultus
Ministers from OPEC countries including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Venezuela plus other major oil producers such as Russia met in Doha to discuss a plan to limit production and protect their profits.

But Iran decided to stay away from the meeting as it does not want to cap its own production,



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/17/opecs-oil-crisis-talks-stumble-as-iran-refuses-to-freeze-output/

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:41 pm
by tron
saudi have said they will up production to make it less valuable if iran does not yield, interesting times, fuel is going to get cheaper.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:17 pm
by Harvey
All of which is defunct with cheaply available distributed energy production. Beside the departure from centralised, monopolised energy, the elephant in the CEO room, it represents the biggest opportunity the world has seen to redraw global power, to let truth emerge and to begin the real and necessary work of our species.

We aren't there yet, but we could have been decades ago. It's past time to hold punches.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:22 pm
by seemslikeadream
The New Normal in U.S.-Saudi Relations

Problems between the two countries run deeper than their leaders.
Perry CammackRichard Sokоlsky
April 13, 2016

Next week’s U.S.-GCC summit in Riyadh is the last opportunity for the Obama administration to recalibrate the U.S.-Saudi relationship. While officially a multilateral summit between the United States and the six Gulf monarchies, all eyes will be on President Obama and King Salman. Both leaders will seek to project an image of comity. The photo ops, boilerplate statements and spin surrounding this encounter, however, will belie an increasingly fractious relationship. Relations are unlikely to crumble anytime soon. But unless Riyadh and Washington work toward a new understanding of what each can expect from the other, the pillars supporting the U.S.-Saudi relationship will continue to erode.



The Backdrop

Saudi Arabia has depended for decades on the United States for external security. It is natural, given this dependence and the asymmetry in power between the two countries, for the House of Saud to fret over America’s security commitments, to seek constant reassurance of U.S. solidarity and to be sensitive to any sign that America is providing less than unconditional support.

The pique President Obama showed toward Saudi Arabia’s “free riding” in his interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in the Atlantic has thus garnered considerable attention. The normally circumspect Saudis have reciprocated, complaining, both privately and publicly, that the United States is no longer a reliable ally, that it has abandoned Saudi Arabia in favor of a dangerous and quixotic quest to improve relations with Iran, and that the kingdom’s interests are increasingly irrelevant to Washington. Against this backdrop, the fourth meeting between President Obama and the Saudi king should be seen, not as a sign of strong U.S.-Saudi ties, but as evidence that the glue that has held this relationship together has lost much of its adhesion.

To be sure, frictions between America and Saudi Arabia over specific issues are nothing new—they date back to the 1940s over the creation of Israel, and have included tense periods such as the 1973 oil embargo and the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. But those hoping that they can wait Obama out and let his U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia revert to form are likely to be disappointed.



Ties That Will Bend But Not Break

The focal point of this divergence is Iran. It was the second Bush administration’s response to 9/11—the 2003 invasion of Iraq—that paved the way for Iran’s reemergence as a regional force. Growing U.S.-Saudi tensions could be papered over so long as tens of thousands of American troops remained in Iraq. However, the Obama administration’s removal of these troops and the nuclear agreement with Iran have created a new dynamic in the seven-decade partnership.

At the strategic level, the United States and Saudi Arabia share a common interest in preventing Iranian hegemony over the region. The Saudis, however, have a more dire assessment of the Iranian threat and prefer to roll back Iranian influence through confrontational policies which stoke Sunni opposition to Iran and its Shiite proxies in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen. In contrast, the Obama administration appears less anxious about Iran’s regional interference, and privileges diplomacy and engagement over bellicosity to restrain Iranian ambitions where they are detrimental to American interests.

The United States and Saudi Arabia both seek the defeat of Islamic State, but the kingdom has subordinated this interest to containing Iranian expansionism. At the same time, it continues to export its literalist, austere interpretation of Islam, a version of which also underpins Islamic State’s ideology. President Obama inveighed to Goldberg that the Saudis and Iranians need to learn to “share the neighborhood” by deescalating tensions and working to resolve regional conflicts. But Riyadh’s actions, such as the decision to execute dissident Shiite cleric Nimr al-Nimr, can appear designed to raise regional tensions and thereby to prevent a U.S.-Iranian rapprochement that might have Iran and Saudi Arabia instead “share the United States,” distant though such rapprochement might seem.

America and Saudi Arabia certainly benefit from counterterrorism and intelligence cooperation, so neither is likely to cut it off as a result of broader policy disagreements. Both countries are determined to protect the free flow of oil from the Gulf. However, the North American shale revolution and improvements in vehicle fuel efficiency have substantially reduced America’s dependence on Gulf oil imports. Saudi oil policies are rightly aimed at preserving Saudi market share, with a stated objective of flooding an already glutted market to drive U.S. shale oil and other high cost producers out of the market. The end result is that the two countries are suddenly fierce economic competitors.

While the United States and Saudi Arabia approach their summit nursing grievances, neither can afford an open break. The Saudis are too dependent on U.S. military support and still value their American connection. They will therefore avoid alienating President Obama and will stage-manage the summit to make it look successful. Obama will be looking to use his last presidential trip to the Arabian Peninsula to cement his legacy. He can be expected to privately pressure the Gulf states to refrain from steps that would undermine the Iranian nuclear agreement, while reassuring them that they can continue to rely upon the United States to provide for their external security and prevent further Iranian adventurism. The president will want to demonstrate that he understands the Iranian nuclear deal will be more secure if the Gulf states have a vested interest in its successful implementation. He will also reaffirm that, despite their differences, the United States values its relationship with the GCC and is committed to upholding the U.S.-Saudi partnership.



The New Normal

Nonetheless, the U.S.-Saudi partnership, once the cornerstone of America’s security posture in the Gulf, is experiencing deep structural changes. Shifting U.S. regional and global priorities, fundamental changes in the global energy market, and America’s response to the convulsions sweeping the Middle East since 2011 have engendered mutual mistrust and exposed deep fault lines.

Saudi overreliance upon American protection stunted its independence over time. With increasing doubts about America’s willingness to indefinitely play the role of regional policeman, Saudi Arabia has been pursuing a bolder, more unilateral foreign policy designed to counter the Iranian threat since King Salman assumed the throne in January 2015. This has led to actions the Obama administration has seen as impulsive and ill conceived, such as the military campaign in Yemen, though Washington supported it largely to reassure the Saudis that the United States was a reliable partner.

While the early results have been profoundly unsettling, Saudi leaders may be more likely to learn from their mistakes if the United States refrains from swooping in to bail them out. Indeed, the Saudis have been retracting and recalibrating their assertive policies in Yemen and Egypt. Elsewhere, however, Saudi missteps, such as their withdrawal of funds from Lebanon, have handed Iran influence—just as the Saudis did in Iraq by refusing to engage with the Shiite-led government.

The new normal will be a more diffident U.S.-Saudi relationship. Both sides will harbor lower expectations of each other and continue to disagree, sometimes sharply, over important regional security issues, but will seek accommodations when their interests overlap. The rhetoric of U.S. and Saudi officials notwithstanding, the two countries will not have an alliance or even a “strategic partnership” in any meaningful sense of the terms. Instead, they will have a more realistic and sustainable relationship that, shorn of its illusions and misperceptions, could produce fewer disappointments and even allow ad hoc cooperation. President Obama and King Salman should use their private discussions at the summit to begin a candid, frank and constructive dialogue over their priorities and expectations, and on how to point the needle upwards in the relationship.

Perry Cammack and Richard Sokolsky are, respectively, an associate and senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Both are former members of the Secretary of State’s Office of Policy Planning.

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:28 pm
by JackRiddler
We could always consider the hypothesis that people have been fighting to gain release of 9/11 records, especially the "28 pages," for 14 years now. And whether or not that was the right approach, or they should have demanded something else, they've finally pushed it to the point where enough people know about it and support it. Many of the same people, still at it: Mindy Kleinberg was quoted in the Times yesterday.

It may be possible of course that some consensus of the United States deep state has decided it's time to break with Saudi Arabia. Or it may be they're anticipating a Saudi break economically -- as with WR's very interesting post, which gives a story for why Saudis want to diversify out of t-bills anyway. Or the neocons have lined up Saudi as the next enemy (although its relations with Israel have never been more swimming). And these entities may have decided that the 28 pages would be the way to do it. It's all possible, yes.

So as a lark, entertain also the idea that the Jersey widows and a whole bunch of 9/11 family members and real-deal journalists and even a former senator who chaired the committee have been push-push-pushing on this for 14 years, and from their perspective, they are close to winning the battle they have fought. Of course it's naive of them to think that, I realize, this couldn't happen without the all-powerful Oz, etc. etc. But humor them for just a minute, will you all?

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:10 pm
by seemslikeadream

Re: Why now? (Saudis and 9/11)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:42 pm
by Karmamatterz
Perhaps the House of Saud has created deeper relationships with China....?

So as a lark, entertain also the idea that the Jersey widows and a whole bunch of 9/11 family members and real-deal journalists and even a former senator who chaired the committee have been push-push-pushing on this for 14 years, and from their perspective, they are close to winning the battle they have fought. Of course it's naive of them to think that, I realize, this couldn't happen without the all-powerful Oz, etc. etc. But humor them for just a minute, will you all?


Giving that American now look at 911 as a freak historical event that caused pain but is now largely moved on doubtful that anybody is concerned about lawsuits. In any potential lawsuit the U.S. will quickly block any information disclosures with a national security gag.

It's more likely something bigger that has to do with the dollar valuation. The ONLY reason the U.S. gov't gives one rats ass about Arabia is because of oil and the power structures that revolve around it. This is a fascinating play for sure, doubtful we will get to know the real story as the headline is part of a grand scheme that is only a cover for financial shenanigans.