The Brexit thread

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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:07 am

so Cameron is going to resign?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:09 am

Undoubtedly, he'll be given the boot.

edited to add: Obviously, the vote was the boot making contact.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:20 am

Image
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Rory » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:37 am

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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:50 am

I got called a Nazi across social media because I support UK independence. I was thinking, since when is wanting to be from under the boot of globalism = fascism?
Pretty soon being against war will get one marked as a Nazi.

I say let the world fall into chaos. It's been a long time coming. Also I hate how expensive it is to buy stuff from the UK :)
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby Sounder » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:19 am

good one RocketMan

Mentalgongfu2 wrote....
So the Brexit is happening. I did not expect this at all. Watershed moment.

Holy Shit. I was aware of a growing support to leave the EU, but I never really thought the vote would go this way, or that it wouldn't be manipulated to support remaining in the EU if the vote turned out against the establishment. Stunned.


Does an advisory vote 'against the establishment' mean anything at all when Parliament can still decide the opposite?


Yes 8-bit, fascism is a handy signifier for many purposes.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:24 am

To any fellow citizen of the UK that cares to listen:
You are awaking this morning to the consequences of a vote that was planned - indeed, designed to throw you into fear and confusion.
Popular sentiment amongst UK citizens against the ruling elite has been steadily increasing since the banking fiasco was exposed in 2008. A distraction has been urgently needed by the eilte - in a nutshell - to give you something far bigger to worry about than focussing on them.
You now have it.
Every single one of us, including those that have sat back and bemoaned the system we inhabit, now faces a choice - exist in fear or live in now.
It was planned that we leave, to throw us into confusion and a period of 'anything goes - it's an emergency situation, after all'. Those that voted 'leave' have a big wake-up call coming their way, which they will find very difficult to reconcile once their manufactured hopes and aspirations begin to crumble. These people need care and understanding, because they are not going to get what they envisioned and are going to find it extremely difficult to come to terms with what transpires from here on. They may feel duped and angry.
The UK has been chosen as the epicentre of a reckoning between those that have and those that have not.
I implore you - do not turn against your neighbour, regardless of their views. We must retain solidarity in the face of crushing difference. It benefits no one but the elite when we in-fight.

I'm seeing a lot of fightened people on the TV this morning, including those that voted 'leave'. Shell-shocked at the ramifications of what they voted for. We must not be frightened or cowed - we must admit our mistakes, take responsibility for them and not allow fear to rule our lives.

Boris Johnson was just being booed as he arrived to make a statement. His driver drove off without stopping and left the BBC rather confused. There is much more of this to come.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:46 am

Is there any indication whatsoever that the vote wasn't fair? I'm thinking it was.

Some good points from Martin Wolf.

Brexit will reconfigure the UK economy

Britain has prospered inside the EU but it will not do as well outside

David Cameron, the prime minister, took a huge gamble and lost. The fearmongering of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage, The Sun and the Daily Mail has won. The UK, Europe, the west and the world are, this morning, damaged. The UK is diminished and will, quite possibly, end up divided. Europe has lost its second-biggest and most outward-looking power.

The hinge between the EU and the English-speaking powers has been snapped. This is quite probably the most significant event in British history since the second world war. It could mark an important moment in the west’s retreat from globalisation. It is, above all, a victory of the disappointed and fearful over those confident in the UK’s ability to adapt to change and lead in Europe.

The geography of the outcome reveals that this has also been a revolt of the provinces against a prosperous and globalised London. It is also a revolt against the establishment — political, economic and commercial. Meanwhile, those who consider themselves losers and those who resent the changes in their country, notably the mass immigration, have won. They have torn down the structures built up by the establishment over half a century. The Labour party, to mention one notable casualty, must have lost a huge part of its support.

Yet the UK might not be the last country to suffer such an earthquake. Similar movements of the enraged exist elsewhere, notably in the US, with the rise of Donald Trump, France, with the rise of Marine Le Pen, and even Germany, with the rise of Alternative for Germany. Others might follow. But, in an act of terrible self-mutilation, the UK has led.

It is one of the great ironies that Tony Blair’s Labour government, with its decision to open the UK at once to migration from the new members of the EU, paved the way to an outcome that will horrify him and his erstwhile colleagues. It is now clear that the failure to introduce safeguards on migration when opening the EU to newer and far poorer members was a mistake. But that is ancient history. Its impact cannot be reversed.

It is another of the ironies that people like Mr Johnson and Mr Gove, the rising powers in this land, must now rely on the experts whose advice they scorned.

The UK is now at the beginning of an extended period of uncertainty that, in overwhelming probability, foreshadows a diminished future. The Conservatives will now end up with new leadership. Whether they will manage to produce anything that can operate as a government is another matter. They then will have to do what the Brexiters failed so egregiously to do during their mendacious campaign, namely, map out a strategy and tactics for unravelling the UK’s connections with the EU. This will probably consume the energies of that government and its successors over many years. It will also involve making some huge decisions. But one point seems evident: the UK will bring in controls over immigration from the EU. That rules out membership of the single market. At best, the UK might participate in a free trade area in goods.

Meanwhile, the rest of the EU, already burdened with so many difficulties, will have to work out its own negotiating positions. I expect them to be tough ones. Why should they treat a country that has given them such a kick in the teeth generously? Yes, Germany has a trade surplus with the UK. But it will continue to sell high-quality products that the UK does not make with ease. It is vital for the interests of the UK that it tries to make the process as easy as possible for its soon-to-be ex-partners. They will always be its neighbours.

The pound has already plunged. If sustained, which is likely, that might cushion the effect on output. If the pound’s fall generates a short-term jump in inflation, so be it. But George Osborne’s fiscal warnings were not entirely foolish. The provinces will have to learn, possibly quite soon, what the likely loss of economic dynamism will mean for the tax revenues on which they depend. An emergency Budget is unnecessary. But it is probable that the underlying fiscal position has now deteriorated because the economy will be smaller. That will demand a fiscal response, at some point, if not at once. Of course, this assumes that the loss of confidence in the UK is not so severe as to devastate belief in its capacity to manage itself. That cannot be ruled out.

The UK economy is going to be reconfigured. Those businesses that have set up in the UK to serve the entire EU market from within must reconsider their position. The City’s role in trading in euro-denominated assets will surely be reduced. But manufacturers, too, will have to consider how to readjust their structure of production. Many will ultimately wish to relocate. Businesses who depend on their ability to employ European nationals must also reshape their operations. Many, surely, will want to move within the EU single market. Such decisions will not have to be made at once. But they will adversely affect investment right now. In economic life, the future is always, to an extent, today.

In the short term, however, it will be difficult for businesses to make such decisions sensibly. They just cannot know how the complex decisions to be taken will finish up. This uncertainty has always been the most obvious result of a vote to leave. It is now with us. Only time will clear this fog. But the view that, beyond this period, the UK will end up poorer than it would otherwise have been remains overwhelmingly probable. The UK did very well during its period inside the EU. It is unlikely to do anything like as well outside it.

Yet economics are only a part of what matters. The UK’s decision to join the EU was taken for sound reasons. Its decision to leave was not. It is likely to be welcomed by Ms Le Pen, Mr Trump and Vladimir Putin. It is a decision by the UK to turn its back on the great European effort to heal its divisions. It is, for me, among the saddest of hours.


Am I right in thinking that there doesn't need to be a general election until 2020? And that the new Tory leader can appoint anyone (including UKIPpers) to his cabinet?
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby coffin_dodger » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:03 am

Am I right in thinking that there doesn't need to be a general election until 2020? And that the new Tory leader can appoint anyone (including UKIPpers) to his cabinet?


I think it's immaterial. One of Camerons cabinet members was interviewed by the BBC shortly after the result was announced (before Cameron announced his standing down) and he said that the next government was going to be in power 'a long time' to deal with the fall out. I suspect some kind of 'Special Circumstances' will be invoked so that Boris Johnson (or some hitherto unheard of elite) can enjoy a long and illustrious reign.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:07 am

No it can't be anyone unheard of - it basically has to be a prominent Tory who campaigned for Leave, so Johnson or Gove. And I can't see it being Gove.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:09 am

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 (c. 14) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that introduced fixed-term elections to the Westminster parliament. Under the provisions of the Act, parliamentary elections must be held every five years, beginning in 2015.
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:14 am

Ha. Saw this on twitter via an Egyptian satirist...

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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:14 am

I'm with you coffin_dodger. Someone is making money hand over fist with this.

Also what the fuck is with so many close elections both US and "UK"? Everything is always 50/50 for the most part. Do you think the UK is going to break apart?
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby 82_28 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:28 am



You'll recognize me if you see a guy with the Subhumans pin on his bag!
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: The Brexit thread

Postby stefano » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:52 am

You can't see it on the photo but she spoke in front of an EU and Scottish flag. No union flag.

Scotland's first minister has said a second independence referendum is "highly likely" after the UK voted to leave the EU.

Nicola Sturgeon said it was "democratically unacceptable" that Scotland faced the prospect of being taken out of the EU against its will.

She said the Scottish government would begin preparing legislation to enable another independence vote.

Scotland voted in favour of the UK staying in the EU by 62% to 38%.


The UK as a whole has voted to leave, by a margin of 52% to 48%, prompting David Cameron to announce he would stand down as prime minister by October.

At a news conference at Bute House, Ms Sturgeon said the UK vote would lead to a "significant and material change" to the UK constitution.

The SNP manifesto for the Scottish Parliament election in May laid down that condition for a second independence vote.

The first minister said that option was now "on the table".

Ms Sturgeon said there was now a significant divergence between Scotland and the rest of Britain which she deeply regretted.

She said her priority was to reassure the people of Scotland about their immediate future and she would explore all options to secure Scotland's place in the European Union.

Scottish cabinet would meet on Saturday to discuss its next steps.
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