Are fish sentient?

[Cordelia]

As pointed out in Consider the Lobster http://www.columbia.edu/~col8/lobsterarticle.pdf lobsters are solitary creatures that thrive—up to 100 years!—in deep dark waters that is their natural habitat.

However way Switzerland or ‘Charlotte’s Legendary Lobster Pound’ in Maine produces a more humane or ‘happier’ ending before plunging into boiling water, the lobster’s life while in captivity is horrific. Store and restaurant actions are empty gestures or product props if they’re crowding them together in tanks under bright (natural or florescent) lighting and strait-jacketing their claws w/rubber bands to restrain their only means of defense.

Last year in Canada, a child noticed and his mother took action against the animal cruelty conditions they found in their local Sobeys grocery store tank.

Fredericton woman launches petition to eliminate lobster tanks from grocery stores | Globalnews.ca

A New Brunswick woman says she’s unhappy with how lobsters are being treated in grocery stores, and has launched a petition calling on grocery store chains to ban live lobster tanks.

Fredericton resident Andrea McAnany said she believes it’s unethical to keep dozens of lobsters together, crawling over one another in tanks with their claws stuck together with rubber bands.

McAnany said she and her four-year-old son Gavin Coffin were at the grocery store when he asked why the lobsters were treated so poorly.

That led McAnany to research the issue, which inspired her to take action and create a petition, aimed specifically at Sobey’s grocery stores, to ban live lobster tanks.

MORE...https://globalnews.ca/news/4066362/fred ... ter-tanks/

These Lobster Tanks, which are found in almost every Sobey's Grocery Store here, were made by Stark Enterprises in New York.

(David Foster Wallace 1962-2008, rip)

[Cordelia]

fwiw.....back in 2007, Homeland Security was ‘inspired’ enough by lobsters to try and apply their superior visual ability to work in spying.

Eye of the Lobster: Mimicking Nature to Spot Contraband

(November 2007) Want a device to see through walls, wood, concrete, earth, and steel? Scientists working for the DHS Science and Technology (S&T) Directorate looked around and found that nature sometimes comes in mighty handy.

Take the lobster.

Here you have a crustacean with an amazingly miniscule brain, yet this creature is able to “see” through walls of dense water obscured by silt and sand to find its food buried deep along the ocean bottom. Lobsters have limited image resolution, but possess high sensitivity and the ability to detect fast movement and the polarization of light. Over eons, this bottom crawler developed compound eyes to view its world through a large number of long, narrow square-shaped cells, arranged in a spherical array with a 180° field of view. Any light the lobster takes advantage of down there is reflected from very highly reflective walls of the cells over a wide range of angles of incidence to form a fast focus. Each cell captures that small amount of light, which then enters the lobster’s eye from all angles. The light from these cells is then focused to form a single, intensified image.

MORE...https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/eye-lobster

[chump]

https://youtu.be/kjKjlLRoLHw
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[DrEvil]

Dolphins aren't fish, but they are pretty smart.

[chump]

https://youtu.be/W1bhE_X2KoE
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[PufPuf93]

In the first half of my life (30 plus years as grandparents had a hunting and fishing resort) I was an avid and frequent fly fisherman for river steelhead and resident trout in small streams and high country lakes. Fish are sentient. Especially in the small streams one had to be sneaky as the fish would spook and either leave the specific pool or quit hitting at the fly. Also we used to run spawning salmon out of pools in the small creek to catch them (this is illegal but was a NA method) and the fish were well aware that they were potential prey in the process. Fish are at least able to experience and respond to survival and feeding stimuli to the point of learned behavior (I have no doubt).

[Cordelia]

I recently enjoyed this Podcast interview w/ OP's Jonathan Balcombe; can't embed it but the interview starts at the 4:00 mark at this link:

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir ... ce=w_share

Another interesting talk by Balcombe (though the audience doesn't seem very responsive):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-mzvFxfFCQ

-----------

We have an old oblong horse trough set into the floor of our deck; its home to various flora and fauna, including insects, frogs, water irises and about a dozen Koi and goldfish. Our dogs often choose this ‘pond’ to lap up water (I know, yuck but they also have a bucket of fresh water set next to it for their own use). After one dog or another has eaten its kibbles and begins drinking from the pond, the fish seem to ‘know’ and swim to the surface where they nibble the dogs’ whiskers for kibble crumbs. The fish have no fear of the dogs (they don ‘t swim to the surface for the cats); none have been accidentally lapped up and it’s like a symbiotic relationship—the dogs get a drink and their whiskers cleaned while the fish have a snack and their water aerated.

[Pele'sDaughter]

My thinking is now going in the direction of everything is sentient or conscious to some degree, because we're really all the same stuff. Many religions and philosophers have come to this conclusion. We're nodes of the one great mind that is the foundation of the universe that we inhabit. I just can't help but keep coming back around to this. We don't recognize this, because the expression of this intelligence in creation takes many forms and different energetic levels. I regret that I'm having trouble finding the correct words for what I'm trying to convey.

I'm looking forward to that TED Talk and I thank you for posting it, Cordelia.

[Cordelia]

My thinking is now going in the direction of everything is sentient or conscious to some degree, because we're really all the same stuff. Many religions and philosophers have come to this conclusion. We're nodes of the one great mind that is the foundation of the universe that we inhabit. I just can't help but keep coming back around to this. We don't recognize this, because the expression of this intelligence in creation takes many forms and different energetic levels. I regret that I'm having trouble finding the correct words for what I'm trying to convey.

I think you conveyed this simply and beautifully.


(right now I'm trying to type with a beloved 15 year old cat resting w/her head in my lap. she is still, but in a few hours won't be, existing in this realm. but even now, as far away as she is, she responds when I scratch her ears. I don't usually have a problem with losing these creatures when they're old, sick and have lived a life well cared for but damn, this one is really hard.)

[Pele'sDaughter]

Thank you so much for posting that video, because it was so informative and yet entertaining. Also quite thought provoking.

[chump]

smells like fish...

https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/florid ... -mermaids/

FLORIDA FISHERMAN LOST AT SEA FOR 14 DAYS CLAIMS HE WAS SEXUALLY ASSAULTED BY MERMAIDS
October 17, 2019



A fisherman lost at sea for 14 days off the coast of Florida has been rescued by the United States Coast Guard this week.

Alvin McCallister, 72, was found on a small rocky islet 200 miles off the nearest coastline where he shipwrecked two weeks ago and managed to survive off of several seagulls, mussels, and urchins.

McCallister, for whom doctors do not fear for his life, was found suffering from intense hallucinations possibly caused by dehydration and the toxins of unidentified mussels he consumed on the small islet.

“The patient shows symptoms of extreme dehydration and is still under medical attention at the moment as he is still suffering from mild hallucinations,” a St-John Baptist Hospital spokesman told reporters.

He described in graphic detail how he was forced to perform oral sex on the fish-like genitals of these aquatic creatures, not only onto the women but also onto the men,” McCallister’s brother added in tears, visibly grateful to find his brother alive.”

McCallister, who is believed to have ingurgitated some form of toxin such as lead or mercury found in dangerous quantities in certain varieties of mussels he possibly consumed, is still under psychiatric evaluation.

“Although Mr. McCallister does present abnormal injuries and inflammation to the genital and anal area, it is highly unlikely that he was sexually exploited or sodomized by living sea creatures and these are possibly self-inflicted” explained one medical expert.

Although McCallister’s mental state is presently unstable, doctors believe he should heal completely in the weeks to come after his body has expurgated the dangerous levels of toxins he has been exposed to.

[Cordelia]

^^^Clearly retaliation by mermaids on how mermaids are depicted in the new movie The Lighthouse and on behalf of its abused mermaid figurine.

[Jerky]

McCallister, who is believed to have ingurgitated some form of toxin such as lead or mercury found in dangerous quantities in certain varieties of mussels he possibly consumed, is still under psychiatric evaluation.

"Ingurgitated"?

INGURGITATED?!

Blech! Just saying that word out loud triggered my gag reflex!

WTF?!

"Ingested" was insufficiently descriptive?!

J.

[Cordelia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvO5u7WM2sQ

Sand dunes ‘communicate’ when they move, researchers say

By Paulina Firozi
Feb. 5, 2020 at 7:00 a.m. EST

Sand dunes are rarely isolated. They form in large groups known as dune fields, whispering in the desert wind or flowing with the water on a seabed.

Now researchers have discovered that dunes communicate with their neighbors as they move across these landscapes — they can even push their neighbor dunes farther away, according to a paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters on Tuesday. The findings could help experts understand how dune movements affect infrastructure, which could be key in adapting to a changing climate.

It’s well known that sand dunes move around and that smaller dunes move faster than larger ones, said Nathalie Vriend, the paper’s senior author from Cambridge University’s BP Institute for Multiphase Flow. But researchers assumed that a pair of identical dunes would move together at the same speed.

Instead, identical dunes that start close repel each other, moving farther away over time.

“They’re definitely communicating,” Vriend said in an interview with The Washington Post. “If I give my neighbor in front of me a push, it’s something I do. But we’re not talking about humans with brains, we’re talking about sand dunes that communicate — inanimate objects communicating information.”

Here’s what’s happening: When a water or wind flow hits a dune, a disturbance is created — almost like the wake created by a boat — and that disturbance gives the neighboring dune a little push, causing that dune to accelerate.

As the flow continues, that same movement also continues until the downstream dune is far enough away not to be affected by the wake.

“Similar to if you’re far enough from the boat, you wouldn’t feel the wake as much,” Vriend said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/ ... n-the-news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX-_9IEiFSg