Are fish sentient?

[Burnt Hill]

Are Insects Downloading Data in Time and Space?

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39787&hilit=time

[Asta]

I think every living thing on this planet has a soul and is only limited in its interactions/relationships/communications by its own unique physical parameters. If Dolphins had opposable thumbs, well, just imagine for a moment what that might have meant to the entire species in its evolution.

Sometimes I wonder if our planet is sentient.

Sometimes I wonder if humans are really sentient.

[DrEvil]

Sometimes I wonder if humans are really sentient.

I often think to myself that Trump supporters must be philosophical zombies.

[Burnt Hill]

"Sometimes I wonder if humans are really sentient".

Too many humans have been taught that sensitivity is a weakness, not a strength.
And then learned to be hypersensitive about things that don't really matter.
It appears as an absence of sentience.

[Cordelia]

I think every living thing on this planet has a soul and is only limited in its interactions/relationships/communications by its own unique physical parameters. If Dolphins had opposable thumbs, well, just imagine for a moment what that might have meant to the entire species in its evolution.

Sometimes I wonder if our planet is sentient.

Sometimes I wonder if humans are really sentient.

Word.

(I don't think we're from this planet--is there any another species that so methodically destroys its home? I wonder if Homo Sapiens are more a strange, complex, aggressive form of bacterial or viral pathogen or parasite killing its host Earth; intentionally 'evolving' to become less sentient before moving on.........)

[DrEvil]

^^Evolving to become less conscious (not the same as sentience, but never mind the details) is one of the main themes of Peter Watts' Blindsight and Echopraxia novels.

The basic idea is that if you get smart enough you don't need consciousness anymore. You have the brainpower to make optimal decisions subconsciously. Consciousness just gets in the way and slow things down. Think of it as a universal version of some people's ability to just see how many matches are in a pile of matches without counting them first.

[Cordelia]

^^Evolving to become less conscious (not the same as sentience, but never mind the details) is one of the main themes of Peter Watts' Blindsight and Echopraxia novels.

The basic idea is that if you get smart enough you don't need consciousness anymore. You have the brainpower to make optimal decisions subconsciously. Consciousness just gets in the way and slow things down. Think of it as a universal version of some people's ability to just see how many matches are in a pile of matches without counting them first.

Along with that annoying pest conscience.......

.......some people's ability to just see how many matches are in a pile of matches without counting them first.

and film savant's ability to see how many toothpicks........ (not the same as matches, but that's just nitpicking.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaYwTxDfmHU

[Sounder]

We might want to consider the difference between sentience and sapience.

Sentience here can be related to feeling while sapience refers to wisdom.

People are starting to grant that animals and even insects have sentience but the dice are loaded with the word sapience.

My opinion is that animals and insects have both feelings and wisdom and that humans with all their words and intellectual constructs mostly only talk about the wisdom that other beings directly integrate.

If so, humans are sentient but not sapient while other species may be both sapient and sentient.

"Sometimes I wonder if humans are really sentient".

Burnt Hill wrote...
Too many humans have been taught that sensitivity is a weakness, not a strength.
And then learned to be hypersensitive about things that don't really matter.
It appears as an absence of sentience.

Why are people being hypersensitive if sensitivity is a weakness?

Some have observed that the most self-righteous are also the most lacking in conscience.

[DrEvil]

^^Evolving to become less conscious (not the same as sentience, but never mind the details) is one of the main themes of Peter Watts' Blindsight and Echopraxia novels.

The basic idea is that if you get smart enough you don't need consciousness anymore. You have the brainpower to make optimal decisions subconsciously. Consciousness just gets in the way and slow things down. Think of it as a universal version of some people's ability to just see how many matches are in a pile of matches without counting them first.

Along with that annoying pest conscience.......

.......some people's ability to just see how many matches are in a pile of matches without counting them first.

and film savant's ability to see how many toothpicks........ (not the same as matches, but that's just nitpicking.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaYwTxDfmHU

Yeah, conscience can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
I would never want to meet any of those hypothetical evolved beings. By human standards they would probably be considered at best amoral, at worst evil. We wouldn't have anything in common with them and reasoning with them would be futile.

I'd forgotten about that scene in Rain Man, but I'm pretty sure that particular trick is based on a real person.

[Burnt Hill]

We might want to consider the difference between sentience and sapience.

Absolutely!
Otherwise we would be Homo Sentiens.

So -
Too many humans have been taught that sensitivity is a weakness, not a strength.
And then learned to be hypersensitive about things that don't really matter.
It appears as an absence of sapience..

Why are people being hypersensitive if sensitivity is a weakness?

Some have observed that the most self-righteous are also the most lacking in conscience.

I am having trouble processing this.
Are you asking that question, or are you asking and answering your own question?

[Burnt Hill]

Hi Asta,

If Dolphins had opposable thumbs, well, just imagine for a moment what that might have meant to the entire species in its evolution.

Swimming in the ocean all day eating fish?
They got it right despite the lack of thumbs.

[Sounder]

My apologies, there should have been better separation, but if were taught that sensitivity is a weakness why do we then learn to be hypersensitive?

I agree that we are taught that sensitivity is a weakness and that many are oversensitive about things that don't really matter. Is it the case that when social signaling is re-enforced by an innate need for an outburst that the cork pops out?

[Burnt Hill]

Is it the case that when social signaling is re-enforced by an innate need for an outburst that the cork pops out?

I generally agree with this, though I wouldn't put it that way, and its not that simple, and that's not how it always works, but yeah.
Its pretty obvious how boys are taught not to be sensitive, and girls aren't really encouraged either, at least not the type of sensitivity that involves empathy.

We learn to be hypersensitive due to the anxiety of living in a capitalist culture, never having learned of the spiritual things that provide true meaning to life, we misapply our values and ethics and when our petty beliefs get challenged we better over react because our foundation is weak and the battle is sure to be lost - so react, now!

[Burnt Hill]

Some have observed that the most self-righteous are also the most lacking in conscience.

If someone is only conscious of love, are they lacking in conscience?
What if the self righteous man is also an honorable and fair man?

[Cordelia]

Some have observed that the most self-righteous are also the most lacking in conscience.

I don't know about most, but in some instances I've found that to be chillingly accurate.

May be of interest , from researcher/author Federico Fros Campelo's blog:

Why Homo Sentiens

This blog intends –resorting to such disciplines mentioned above- to explore how our day-to-day is sustained in the emotional design we bear inside. This design which has us interacting in the typical manner of our species, no matter how subtle it may seem. I hope this encourages the interest in unraveling what the deep basics of our emotions and human relationships are about.

Contemporary biology has recently even dared to denominate us Homo sapiens sapiens. I strongly believe we have reached the time to admit we truly are Homo sapiens Sentiens.

More...
http://www.homosentiens.com/why-homo-sentiens/