The Mandela Effect (Disappearing Braces in Moonraker)

[guruilla]

Even from the most mundane perspective, that all these people are now convinced Dolly had braces is still a helluva head-scratcher.

For the record: "The Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars" quote was fabricated.

[JackRiddler]

So maybe she didn't have braces. I remember she did. I'd think this might initiate an interesting discussion about memory before one about time-traveling reality-changers.

It kind of makes sense either way, since his braces are such a big thing in the movie. She smiles, showing all her teeth, and no one has ever smiled at this monster before. She likes him despite not having braces like him. We later remember it as he likes her because she has braces like him.

(Or maybe they really did digitize the braces out for a later DVD edition, to remove the pervy implications of her being too child-like, but now this seems ridiculous to me, even though that was my first move. No one likes having their memory revised.)

Anyway, I'm not very impressed by the original evidence starting this trend, that some people thought Mandela had already died.

I am impressed by the MAD art from the time, and usually am.

[Nordic]

I agree the artwork and the accuracy of the caricatures is first rate. I was always "the kid who could draw" and studied the hell out of those. They're exemplary.

I'm still convinced she had braces. But now I'm wondering .... Maybe if you watch the whole movie, she HAD braces, was rejected somehow, then gets them off?

And the thing about the timelines (as I understand it, is that both versions exist but in different timelines, which have somehow merged so we have people in this particular timeline having different memories.

[Nordic]

Well, it's nothing really. But having been in a lot of earthquakes, I've just had the sense that after a few of them, everything was slightly different, in an alternate reality sort of way. There was one in particular not long before 9/11 that I often think about because everything in my life and in the world seemed quite different after it happened. I can't really deliver anything more concrete than that. I could give details but they're all specific and personal.

And I just thought of how much mass is in motion during an earthquake, and I thought of all the strange phenomena that we can observe around them, including the strange lights in the sky, animals acting strange, and if CERN is able to somehow mess with time/space by shooting tiny little particles around, what is possible when tectonic plates rupture and rub and smash u to each other, with incomprehensible levels of energy stored into the stresses and suddenly released etc etc etc.

Sounds like quantum immortality. You died in that earthquake, but your consciousness continued on in a different reality where you didn't.

I've thought of that in relation to other things that have happened in my life. In particular a helicopter mishap that I survived. I once told my tale to a pro pilot, whose eyes got very best g and said to me "you're the walking dead". It felt like those kids in "Final Destination", like I was supposed to actually die. It kind of fucked me up for a while honestly.

[tron]

speaking of time travel, i found this, maybe shouldnt share, it seems a bit......barking.


http://timetravelcomputers.blogspot.co.uk/

[JackRiddler]

Perhaps I was too quick in judging this, and need to reassess.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40042

[Belligerent Savant]

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I'm still convinced she had braces. But now I'm wondering .... Maybe if you watch the whole movie, she HAD braces, was rejected somehow, then gets them off?

I was thinking the same when ruminating on this yesterday. There's a series of scenes towards the end of the movie where Jaws and his lady friend are temporarily stuck in a space station on the verge of collapsing..I'm almost certain she's wearing braces in one of those scenes. It's possible she DIDN'T have the braces initially, during the scene in question, but later obtained them to show "solidarity" with Jaws... or something.

In any event, this could be a 'power of suggestion' scenario. This "meme" (or whatever we want to call it, since the veracity of the Mandela Effect remains in dispute, for now) started with someone placing the suggestion/framing the scene to convey that she had braces in that scene, and so most played along because they recall braces AT SOME POINT in the movie, though not necessarily in that particular scene.
If true (and I will be searching the cellar soon for that VHS to confirm it...), then it's merely another example of how unreliable our memories are -- and also a reason why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable as a sole source of incrimination: because humans are prone to "misremember" what they believe they saw; because they may be susceptible to suggestions/influence of others that may be "leading the witness"; and because the manner in which the mind interprets information sent to our visual cortex is in itself, in many respects, a form of ILLUSION.

In short, nothing is real. Except for those f'ing braces.

[JackRiddler]

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In any event, this could be a 'power of suggestion' scenario. This "meme" (or whatever we want to call it, since the veracity of the Mandela Effect remains in dispute, for now) started with someone placing the suggestion/framing the scene to convey that she had braces in that scene, and so most played along because they recall braces AT SOME POINT in the movie, though not necessarily in that particular scene.

Nah, I now think the likeliest scenario to be that she did not have braces in the smile scene or any other, but we (a lot of people) later remembered that she did, because it makes sense when you recall the smile scene that way. And this would not be very unusual, especially with memories of fictions we consume. For years I was confusing characters from Catch-22 and Catcher in the Rye, because I'd read them in the same year of school, and only untangled it after reading one of these again.

Then again, elfismile's old VHS may yet show otherwise. (Sorry your getting it doesn't count - who says the VHS being sold now isn't doctored too?!)

[Belligerent Savant]

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nah -- I wouldn't be buying a VHS NOW of the movie. If you go back and re-read my yammering: my father recorded the movie (when it was playing on HBO or WHT, etc) and saved it to VHS way back in the early 80s, which is why I viewed it so many times as a growing lad..
That would make my copy -- potentially -- one of the most reliable sources for proving/disproving this nonsense once and for all.

(IF I can locate it, that is)

[tron]

do you have it beligerent? could you truly use this to prove/disprove anything? could a time edit change what is on the film? i was trying to unfuck my mind earlier with convergence/divergence and i tried and failed to view it as a tree, with the tree above ground and the roots below unseen as another tree, somehow the only point of convergence was the trunk both above and below ground all else is divergence and i dont see how my tree analogy can make the branches come together, and so fail.

[Belligerent Savant]

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Well, minimally I'll/we'll have an added piece of 'evidence' that either corroborates the claims of 'Mandela Effect' -- or doesn't.

If she never wears braces at any point in the film, it means there was either a collective large-scale 'misremembering' (if possible) or we have time-traveling trolls that leverage the power of time travel for trivial manipulation of entertainment media.

(HOWEVER: we can't know for certain the extent of their manipulation; we only know what we know, and what we currently know about our present/history may be a result of more expansive manipulation of events -- small and large-scale -- by these space-traveling trolls from the future. No way to prove or disprove manipulation either way. Unless, of course, we find relics from the future inadvertently discarded... or locate the time machine itself.)

Enough mental masturbation. For now.

[km artlu]

I'm less inclined to posit time-travelers than I am to consider that these trivial details would be the detritus of temporal dynamics we don't comprehend. Triviality seems to be the common aspect of the presumed observations.

As above; so below. You clean out the garage you may miss some stuff. But it's less likely to be the important stuff.

[JackRiddler]

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Well, minimally I'll/we'll have an added piece of 'evidence' that either corroborates the claims of 'Mandela Effect' -- or doesn't.

If she never wears braces at any point in the film, it means there was either a collective large-scale 'misremembering' (if possible)

Totally possible, plausible, in line with how memory works (you remember the thing that makes sense before the one that actually happened), and likeliest (unless your video shows otherwise, in which case likeliest becomes a Hollywood DVD revision -- and in that case we can all congratulate ourselves for having remembered it correctly).

Enough mental masturbation.

Sir, are you trying to shut down this board?!

[norton ash]

Har har... I have a skep-dick friend who calls this site Vigorous Masturbation.

[JackRiddler]

Har har... I have a skep-dick friend who calls this site Vigorous Masturbation.

But he reads it!