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Luther Blissett wrote:Both of my friends are fine, thanks though. Far more normal and conformist than I. There have been no additional doctor's visits beyond the usual vaccinations and check-ups.How can we help trans people? That is my primary concern.
Luther Blissett » Mon May 15, 2017 12:11 pm wrote:Furthermore: how can we help people? How can we be nice?
Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In these cases, the assigned sex and gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is transgender. There is evidence suggesting that twins who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not only due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics or exposure to hormones before birth.
brekin » Mon May 15, 2017 1:52 pm wrote:Luther Blissett wrote:Both of my friends are fine, thanks though. Far more normal and conformist than I. There have been no additional doctor's visits beyond the usual vaccinations and check-ups.How can we help trans people? That is my primary concern.Luther Blissett » Mon May 15, 2017 12:11 pm wrote:Furthermore: how can we help people? How can we be nice?
I think you've kind of hit on the conundrum.
How much of "helping" involves telling the people the truth versus shielding them from the truth? Having them conform to reality, versus having reality conform to their wishes? Where is the line between acceptance and enabling?
Granted no one has the ultimate truth but those who suffer from dysphoria are suffering from a disorder, which I think they would agree with (that is how they identify). Is the disorder caused by their "thinking", or is it a disorder of "nature"?
That aside the real issue is on what is the solution, and that is where people differ greatly. Do you accept nature, or do you try to refashion it?
Further, if you suffer from a disorder you may not be the best person to know how to solve it.
Especially if you are 4 years old.
Gender dysphoriaGender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In these cases, the assigned sex and gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is transgender. There is evidence suggesting that twins who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not only due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics or exposure to hormones before birth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
Luther Blissett wrote:brekin » Mon May 15, 2017 1:52 pm wrote:Luther Blissett wrote:Both of my friends are fine, thanks though. Far more normal and conformist than I. There have been no additional doctor's visits beyond the usual vaccinations and check-ups.How can we help trans people? That is my primary concern.Luther Blissett » Mon May 15, 2017 12:11 pm wrote:Furthermore: how can we help people? How can we be nice?
I think you've kind of hit on the conundrum.
How much of "helping" involves telling the people the truth versus shielding them from the truth? Having them conform to reality, versus having reality conform to their wishes? Where is the line between acceptance and enabling?
Granted no one has the ultimate truth but those who suffer from dysphoria are suffering from a disorder, which I think they would agree with (that is how they identify). Is the disorder caused by their "thinking", or is it a disorder of "nature"?
That aside the real issue is on what is the solution, and that is where people differ greatly. Do you accept nature, or do you try to refashion it?
Further, if you suffer from a disorder you may not be the best person to know how to solve it.
Especially if you are 4 years old.
Gender dysphoriaGender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (GID) is the dysphoria (distress) a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In these cases, the assigned sex and gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is transgender. There is evidence suggesting that twins who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not only due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics or exposure to hormones before birth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria
Why we would we get involved with someone's private business like this? It doesn't seem very nice to me, and when I ask myself who benefits from social control over individuals privacy, authoritarianism, standards and the traditional ways of doing things, the answer isn't great.
Luther Blissett » Mon May 15, 2017 3:25 pm wrote:Few would care?
Luther Blissett » Mon May 15, 2017 3:25 pm wrote:Why has there always been so much violence aimed at people who did not conform to gender stereotypes, either woman or man, especially throughout American history where there never was an accepted third / fourth gender as in some other cultures?
I disagree that this is public. It has absolutely no bearing on you what people do with themselves.
Luther Blissett » Wed May 17, 2017 9:39 am wrote:We're closing in on 7.5 billion people in the world, trans individuals' choices have absolutely no bearing on your life.
Luther Blissett wrote:We're closing in on 7.5 billion people in the world, trans individuals' choices have absolutely no bearing on your life.
Why does everyone else keep bringing up surgical procedures on children to attack my position on this? It's grim. I never had that conversation with either parent and have no clue what is happening (BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING PRIVATE AND WHY WOULD I KNOW THAT). I was just with the father last night at a wake.
Now, seeing that there are these four arts, two attending on the body and two on the soul for their highest good; flattery knowing, or rather guessing their natures, has distributed herself into four shams or simulations of them; she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them, and pretends to be that which she simulates, and having no regard for men's highest interests, is ever making pleasure the bait of the unwary, and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them. Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.
Wombaticus Rex » Wed May 17, 2017 11:26 am wrote:Luther Blissett » Wed May 17, 2017 9:39 am wrote:We're closing in on 7.5 billion people in the world, trans individuals' choices have absolutely no bearing on your life.
The past century has been a continuous education in how individual choices scale up.
The population explosion does not dilute the impact of these choices, it amplifies them.
Not speaking on the OP, speaking in general. The sentence I quoted really jumped out at me.
Luther Blissett » 15 May 2017 05:53 wrote:
It's madness to suggest that my friends are impressing this upon their child. A lifetime of ostracization, fear and anger and disgust directed at them, violence, etc? Sign them up! What parent wouldn't?
yathrib » Thu May 18, 2017 8:58 am wrote:It is darkly humorous that people who would sooner drive a railroad spike through their own eye than accept the preposterous claims of old or new age religions are completely on board for accepting that one can have Magical Woman Essence (or Man Essence) in spite of having neither sociology nor biology in one's corner. This is essentially a religious claim, like Zenu and his thetans, but more harmful in the long run.
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