Congratulations, Stupid.

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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby dada » Fri May 19, 2017 8:17 pm

Blue » Thu May 11, 2017 8:44 am wrote:Thanks for your thoughts in this thread, dada. You remind me of something I read a long time ago: "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas.


Sure. I'd say "no problem," but I know Jack hates when people say that.

Yes, it's been said many times, many ways... no, not "merry christmas." If you want to transform the world - and let's be honest, who doesn't - get to work "upending the tea-tables of the mind."

Although, after awhile, the upending the tea-tables of the mind shtick becomes part of the scenery. People go about their karma wheels, the enlightened voice becomes just another bird chirping in the wilderness. So what does the voice do? Come up with new shticks. I'm liking the "whatever is on my mind, I don't type, instead typing something else, spontaneously" shtick.

The question is, where? On this discussion board? Start my own? Discussion board behavior is tribal, albeit very watered-down. I don't know if I want to encourage that. But I do like posting my arrangements of words on the internet sometimes. Social media? Of course not. Maybe just ramble on a blog in a corner of the internet somewhere. Jack knows where to find me if anything really important happens.

There are many paths to enlightenment.


Yes. And I think enlightenment isn't the goal, it's the starting line. Which says something about how far we've got to go. After enlightenment, we're timeless, immortal beings. None of this age-ist stuff matters, it's just numbers. The Bodhisattva comes back into the world, but is free of birth and death, not "subject to the five elements." Enlightened action is like putting a lighter up to a spider web.

What I'm trying to do, is to get at the uncomfortable heart of things. We're not building a better world on this message board, or anywhere on the internet. If anyone was to take it seriously, I'm confident they'd come to the same conclusion.

I don't want to build a better world, anyway. I'm interested in being a better world. There's a difference. Building a better world is putting off enlightenment. Being a better world is now. Kingdom of heaven is within, and all that crap.

It's like Reverend Billy and his Stop Shopping Gospel choir. The choice is now. Stop fucking shopping. Not to make the future better, but because it's the most subversive political act one can make. We don't need perfection, you don't need to be self-sustaining off the grid, just stop buying pointless garbage. Enough people get into it, the whole shit-house is thrown out of balance, maybe shakes to pieces. It's the same here, in word-world. Stop shopping for ideas. Just stop.

This is why juxtaposition is so important. On an art and poetry discussion board, the 'Clouds' thread would be just another thread. Here, it may be the most political thread in General Discussion.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Fri May 19, 2017 9:37 pm

"It's like Reverend Billy and his Stop Shopping Gospel choir. The choice is now. Stop fucking shopping. Not to make the future better, but because it's the most subversive political act one can make. We don't need perfection, you don't need to be self-sustaining off the grid, just stop buying pointless garbage. Enough people get into it, the whole shit-house is thrown out of balance, maybe shakes to pieces. It's the same here, in word-world. Stop shopping for ideas. Just stop."

Now, that's a concept I can grasp.

Come one, come all to dada's One Stop Shopping and Enlightenment Emporium.
Last edited by minime on Sat May 20, 2017 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby Heaven Swan » Sat May 20, 2017 8:09 am

Dada wrote:
I don't want to build a better world, anyway. I'm interested in being a better world. There's a difference. Building a better world is putting off enlightenment. Being a better world is now. Kingdom of heaven is within, and all that crap.


Why can't we do both? Why one or the other?

Can't we engage in action for change and to build a better world while also changing ourselves by healing, practicing spirituality, learning, etc?

I know it's possible because I and others I know are doing it. It's all about time management and letting go of the values of the materialistic exploitative culture that encourages us to prioritize security and to sell our souls to the capitalist system.

The movement of the 60's-70's was derailed in part by the deep state's launching of the New Age movement which promoted a shallow form of spirituality that centered 'abundance' (materialism with a sprinkle of fairy dust) and changing our thoughts to change our life (a bogus theory that encouraged 'me,me me' narcissism).

What we need is a new model of activism. Split screen. Yin and Yang. Having a balance between inner and outer focus, not retreat and total self-absorption or running ourselves ragged going to meetings and demonstrations all the time.

If there are enough people in an organizing collective, the work on an activist project doesn't have to fall on the shoulders of a few people. Everyone can do a manageable amount and have time for self care, healing and development. It's not rocket science but also not what we may be used to.

BTW All valid religions and spiritual systems have caring for others and doing good as a key element of their spiritual practice. Buddhism advocates earning merit by doing good, not eternal navel gazing.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sat May 20, 2017 10:47 am

Heaven Swan » Sat May 20, 2017 7:09 am wrote:Dada wrote:
I don't want to build a better world, anyway. I'm interested in being a better world. There's a difference. Building a better world is putting off enlightenment. Being a better world is now. Kingdom of heaven is within, and all that crap.


Why can't we do both? Why one or the other?

Can't we engage in action for change and to build a better world while also changing ourselves by healing, practicing spirituality, learning, etc?

I know it's possible because I and others I know are doing it. It's all about time management and letting go of the values of the materialistic exploitative culture that encourages us to prioritize security and to sell our souls to the capitalist system.

The movement of the 60's-70's was derailed in part by the deep state's launching of the New Age movement which promoted a shallow form of spirituality that centered 'abundance' (materialism with a sprinkle of fairy dust) and changing our thoughts to change our life (a bogus theory that encouraged 'me,me me' narcissism).

What we need is a new model of activism. Split screen. Yin and Yang. Having a balance between inner and outer focus, not retreat and total self-absorption or running ourselves ragged going to meetings and demonstrations all the time.

If there are enough people in an organizing collective, the work on an activist project doesn't have to fall on the shoulders of a few people. Everyone can do a manageable amount and have time for self care, healing and development. It's not rocket science but also not what we may be used to.

BTW All valid religions and spiritual systems have caring for others and doing good as a key element of their spiritual practice. Buddhism advocates earning merit by doing good, not eternal navel gazing.


Good stuff.

Tell me about that time management thing though. Sounds suspiciously new-agey to me.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby dada » Sun May 21, 2017 12:21 am

Heaven Swan » Sat May 20, 2017 8:09 am wrote:Why can't we do both? Why one or the other?

Can't we engage in action for change and to build a better world while also changing ourselves by healing, practicing spirituality, learning, etc?


Can do both. But enlightenment first. I'll try to explain further why I think this. Remember, this is just me, everyone's least favorite ordinary house cat. I speak with no voice of authority, not representative of any social hierarchy, academic or otherwise. Only group I speak for is the one and only secret society of space aliens.

If we organize for affordable housing, it sounds like a good idea, but we end up living in shoeboxes. If we organize for free education, we get free indoctrination. Now, affordable shoeboxes are better than being financially underwater for life, and free indoctrination is better than paying for it, I guess, but it seems obvious to me that something needs to change on a more fundamental level.

Enlightenment first - to me - means seeing through the games we play. Having it fully sink in that we really aren't getting anywhere. We're on a ball spiraling through space with no destination, time is just markers. Our little egos are here briefly, then gone.

"Getting somewhere" is one of the games we play. Building a better world is like a hobby. There's nothing wrong with playing games or having hobbies. When people have hobbies, they have fun with them. When people become fans, then we have problems. They obsess over their hobbies. They bicker about who is the leader of the fanclub. They defend their team. There are football riots, and all that nonsense. People take their games and hobbies too seriously. When they're not enlightened, that is.

It may sound callous for me to say building a better world is just a hobby, since lives are on the line. I stand by my statement. Human beings play dangerous games sometimes.

If one is enlightened, one doesn't take their games as seriously. That doesn't mean one doesn't play to win, get competitive. It means there's a solid, fundamental foundation under the games and hobbies.

Besides seeing through our games, what is this solid, fundamental foundation of enlightenment. It's all one-on-one stuff. There's healing the sick, comforting the dying, and caring for the weak. These are enlightened priorities.

How do you heal the sick? Being healthy yourself, first of all. Like on the airplane, when the oxygen masks drop down, you put yours on first. You aren't helping anyone if you pass out. Healing the sick doesn't mean laying on the hands to shrink a tumor, it means uplifting people's spirits in a way that isn't selling them a cheap high. There are sick people everywhere in our society, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. Enlightened beings have their work cut out for them.

Comforting the dying. How can someone who is afraid of dying themselves do that? Comforting the dying is a specialty of enlightened beings. They know what to do and say. Maybe just be there. Maybe more. It's tough to explain. You've really got to die first yourself, to know what to do.

Caring for the weak. It doesn't mean what you'd expect. Weak is relative. The enlightened person is compassionate. That's strong. Caring is all about communication. And communication is only possible between equals. This is advanced class stuff.

Once upon a time, it was normal for people to take care of the dying, it was just something you do. It's become rarer these days. It would be nice if that became trendy again. Put the nursing homes out of business. Unenlightened people say, 'oh, but what about my life, what about me?' Enlightened people don't think like that.

I don't know if it's like this in other countries, but in America, being enlightened means being an advocate at the hospital, even at the doctors office. You have to fight to get humane care for people. Health care is big money business, corporations taking over every last corner. And you know what that means. This is what goes on underneath the 'healthcare debate' in the US. It's another case of more fundamental problems being ignored.

I was talking to a friend a few weeks ago, guy in his mid-seventies, about these health care supermarket-style things. The health care 'industry.' More like factories, not doctors offices. Just all the wrong impersonal things, all rolled into one. My friend nods, says, 'When it's my time, I hope I get hit by a bus.' He knows exactly what I'm talking about.

But if you're enlightened, it means fighting for people to be treated like human beings at these places. So those are the priorities.

But let's say you don't have any sick, dying or weak people around you at the moment. Besides all that, being enlightened means showing what it means to be enlightened, looking for ways to maybe expedite the process in others. This is what you do in your spare time, as well.

After all of that, there's hobbies like building a better world. I think I can best give a sense of what this means by talking about what I know. Video games. Bear with me, here. Not because it's going to all make sense at the end, but because I'm asking nicely.

I have a friend who is a surgeon. He also had the world record on donkey kong for a few years. He is a smart fellow, he's read the studies that show that playing video games help a surgeon's reflexes, hand/eye coordination. Other people read these studies and say, 'look! video games are good for you!' But we all know that to be a better surgeon, you have to actually be a surgeon. Without a foundation, what is the point of having better reflexes and hand/eye coordination? They're only useful when applied.

The parallel I'm drawing is that the enlightened person is like a surgeon. They may play games, social, intellectual, or whatever. Maybe they play the build a better world game. They're not actually looking to achieve the goals of the game, though, they're doing it in service to the fundamental foundation. Working within the games, using them. Looking for more ways to expedite the process.

And hey, maybe they even help build a better world, without meaning to. My friend plays games to keep his reflexes sharp, and ended up holding the world record on donkey kong. It just wasn't the important thing. I mean, the guy is a surgeon. Would you care about video game world records if you were a surgeon?

I have another friend, a musician. He also happens to have world records on some well known games. He's another person with a balanced life, video games are just a hobby. But for him, the games are kind of like his spiritual practice. They're not really games to him, they're bio-feedback devices. It sounds silly, but he becomes one with the game. In the last forty years of video game history, I've only seen a few programmers, and no players approach the games like he does. And then he goes out and plays shows with his band, has a life. He's also a very positive, smart human being. A true uplifter of spirits.

Then I have a third friend, just a regular guy with a nine to five desk job. He also has world records on games, and is better than the surgeon and the musician are at the games in general. I mean this guy is scary good. People have offered him thousands of dollars to buy his lucky red baseball cap.

But he's just a regular guy, nothing weird about him if you met him outside of an arcade. When people ask him how he got so good at the games, he says, "You just get lucky." He's being modest. Most people will never even get to the place where you have an opportunity to 'get lucky.' This is what it's about for him. Seeing how lucky he can get.

Then there's me. I use my encyclopaedic knowledge of old games as metaphor. Parables and stuff. I could explain how the mechanics of the game Ghosts n' Goblins symbolizes the dance of enlightenment, but I won't do that here.

To be a better surgeon, to get into a zen-like state where the boundaries between self/other melt away, to create luck, to tell fun stories with lessons hidden inside. That's why we play games. Other people might take the games they play at face value. They're only looking on the surface. We're playing the same games, some of us just have different goals.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough for one post. One other thing I want to say though, is maybe navel-gazing isn't all bad. The way I see it, it could be a tactic, like stopping shopping. There's what, four hundred million Americans? Which means roughly a hundred, a hundred fifty million households. How many navel-gazers would it take to mess up the capitalist system. Fifty million? Capitalism has to grow, that's its nature. What happens when a big chunk of the consumers stop consuming. Inflation through the roof. Credit card aprs go to fifty, seventy five percent practically overnight. Would the system be able to sustain itself? For how long?

I'm not talking about people who do ten minutes of transcendental meditation a day. I mean enlightened people who are deliberately doing navel-gazing as a political act. These people are terrorists, sitting there doing nothing. Not 'turning on, tuning in and dropping out.' Sitting down right where they are, in the middle of society. What is a wildcat strike, a hunger strike?

So those are some ordinary ideas, about what I think is the essential, yet missing ingredient.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby BenDhyan » Sun May 21, 2017 7:25 am

Not to discourage intellectual discussion about the subject of the reality represented by the idea of 'enlightenment', but a reminder that enlightenment in the Eastern religious tradition is a state of mind free from duality, ie. a mind free of thought. As the old Zen saying goes....as long as there is a you seeking enlightenment or not seeking enlightenment, you are as far from enlightenment as the day you were born. :)
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby Heaven Swan » Sun May 21, 2017 10:02 am

minime » Sat May 20, 2017 10:47 am wrote:
Heaven Swan » Sat May 20, 2017 7:09 am wrote:Dada wrote:
I don't want to build a better world, anyway. I'm interested in being a better world. There's a difference. Building a better world is putting off enlightenment. Being a better world is now. Kingdom of heaven is within, and all that crap.

...

What we need is a new model of activism. Split screen. Yin and Yang. Having a balance between inner and outer focus, not retreat and total self-absorption or running ourselves ragged going to meetings and demonstrations all the time.

If there are enough people in an organizing collective, the work on an activist project doesn't have to fall on the shoulders of a few people. Everyone can do a manageable amount and have time for self care, healing and development. It's not rocket science but also not what we may be used to.

BTW All valid religions and spiritual systems have caring for others and doing good as a key element of their spiritual practice. Buddhism advocates earning merit by doing good, not eternal navel gazing.


Good stuff.

Tell me about that time management thing though. Sounds suspiciously new-agey to me.


Actually, time management is corporate-speak I believe, not new age.
What I meant was valuing one's time and energy and making the best possible use of it.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sun May 21, 2017 10:19 am

Yeah, I get confused.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby Heaven Swan » Sun May 21, 2017 10:48 am

Dada wrote:
...
If one is enlightened, one doesn't take their games as seriously. That doesn't mean one doesn't play to win, get competitive. It means there's a solid, fundamental foundation under the games and hobbies.


Can I ask a question Dada? How much time per week do you spend playing video games?

Besides seeing through our games, what is this solid, fundamental foundation of enlightenment. It's all one-on-one stuff. There's healing the sick, comforting the dying, and caring for the weak. These are enlightened priorities.

How do you heal the sick? Being healthy yourself, first of all. Like on the airplane, when the oxygen masks drop down, you put yours on first. You aren't helping anyone if you pass out. Healing the sick doesn't mean laying on the hands to shrink a tumor, it means uplifting people's spirits in a way that isn't selling them a cheap high. There are sick people everywhere in our society, emotionally, mentally, spiritually. Enlightened beings have their work cut out for them.

Comforting the dying. How can someone who is afraid of dying themselves do that? Comforting the dying is a specialty of enlightened beings. They know what to do and say. Maybe just be there. Maybe more. It's tough to explain. You've really got to die first yourself, to know what to do.

Caring for the weak. It doesn't mean what you'd expect. Weak is relative. The enlightened person is compassionate. That's strong. Caring is all about communication. And communication is only possible between equals. This is advanced class stuff.

Once upon a time, it was normal for people to take care of the dying, it was just something you do. It's become rarer these days. It would be nice if that became trendy again. Put the nursing homes out of business. Unenlightened people say, 'oh, but what about my life, what about me?' Enlightened people don't think like that.

I don't know if it's like this in other countries, but in America, being enlightened means being an advocate at the hospital, even at the doctors office. You have to fight to get humane care for people. Health care is big money business, corporations taking over every last corner. And you know what that means. This is what goes on underneath the 'healthcare debate' in the US. It's another case of more fundamental problems being ignored. ...


I believe, for example, that Martin Luther King was an enlightened being. Besides looking at what he did in the world, if you look closely at film footage of him his aura is so strong that it's visible around his head.

So, according to you, MLK would have been more enlightened and done more for the world if he had spent his life sitting beside dying folk in hospices?


But who am I to say? In my current capacity, all I am is a username on the internet. Therefore I'll leave you with a small excerpt from writing by a Taoist qigong master who, before the Chinese governments crackdown on qigong (beginning in 1999), regularly filled stadiums when he gave talks.

LEVELS OF VIRTUE

...Ancients realized that virtue has small, intermediate and great virtue, as well as ordinary conduct and beneficence. Taoist virtue, grand virtue, mystery virtue, and virtue that we are not yet able to comprehend. Ancient qigong masters recognize that "a lot of small virtues are not real virtues." Virtue has many forms and content, local or global, short term or long term, with multiple levels and meanings. Once a person realizes the technical nature of virtue, it is not enough to pay attention merely to small virtue. Paying attention to the small things at hand, but forgetting about the long term progress of a country and society is not enough. Paying attention to proper adjustment of individual attitudes towards fame, fortune, right and wrong, but ignoring the proper adjustment of attitudes toward different people in a larger circle is also not enough.
...

from page 69 of Secrets and benefits of Internal Qigong Cultivation by Dr. Yan Xin
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sun May 21, 2017 11:56 am

It's none of my business, but dada strikes me as the kind of person who will take up something as a personal challenge, master it, really master it, maybe even to the point of obsession, until he internalizes it, and then drop it completely and never look back.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sun May 21, 2017 12:07 pm

I was that way with enlightenment.

Kidding!
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 21, 2017 12:45 pm

The President of the United States wrote:tl;dr Assembled masters for the moment of the bloody wars in this region, allow me near the start to repeat my usual list of atrocities committed inside my own country, which are widely considered a product of the ideology that your state funds. No worries, allow me instead to attribute these to an even more meaningless abstraction: Extremism. Terror. Terror, Terror, Terror. Extremism. Terror and extremism are whatever we say they are. Here in your neighborhood, that means ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Assad, whatever. The list keeps growing. Kill everything that moves. Thank you for your service in this struggle against anyone we bomb. We are with you. For peace. Terror is evil. It is really, really extreme. We are good. We are really, really good. Thank you for funneling another $350bn of your oil revenues toward the purchase of U.S. arms. We all know that is why I stand before you here today, so let's not say otherwise. Thank you. Buy some more! We can never sell you enough. We love you. Lots of countries here, you can all buy some more. It's a great investment. It protects Americans. They're getting millions of new jobs. Americans. Millions of new jobs, every month, no kidding. I'm all about protecting Americans. I'll protect Americans and you folk can protect your own whatevers. You are doing a great job too. Keep pumping, keep paying, keep bombing. We'll bomb right along with you. Exterminate this evil, off the face of the earth. Don't you change a thing. It's for the women and children. We're not telling you what to do, no sir. We love women and children and young people. You sure have a lot of young people. Love this town, great town, my favorite town. You and we are the champions of peace and love and civilization. I love your religion. Great religion. Great civilization. Let's have a Triple Abrahamic God Team-up and kick some ass and trade and do commerce and stuff. Buy our arms? Great arms. We look forward to the intensified war you will unleash under our sponsorship, with these shining new arms. Please pay up front. We look forward to even greater unimaginable devastation of your homelands and death and starvation of your peoples, as a result of what we are starting here today. This is the greatest assembly of the greatest leaders ever. It's history. We look forward to designating new enemies from among whatever factions end up getting their hands on some of these weapons we have sold to you today. Then we'll sell you some more. Kill everything that moves. For peace. Okay, ready for the punchline? All this terror stuff. You'll never guess. It's all because of Iran! Bet you never saw that one coming. Shall we bomb Iran? Come on, let's bomb Iran. Peace and love. I am protecting Americans. Also, who said I'm functionally illiterate? Didn't I read that right? Am I a great reader, or what? Someone wrote this, and I read it. Ethniticity. Really great job. God bless. God God God bless. Buy our arms. You will never see me here again.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sun May 21, 2017 2:27 pm

JackRiddler » Sun May 21, 2017 11:45 am wrote:
The President of the United States wrote:tl;dr Assembled masters for the moment of the bloody wars in this region, allow me near the start to repeat my usual list of atrocities committed inside my own country, which are widely considered a product of the ideology that your state funds. No worries, allow me instead to attribute these to an even more meaningless abstraction: Extremism. Terror. Terror, Terror, Terror. Extremism. Terror and extremism are whatever we say they are. Here in your neighborhood, that means ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Assad, whatever. The list keeps growing. Kill everything that moves. Thank you for your service in this struggle against anyone we bomb. We are with you. For peace. Terror is evil. It is really, really extreme. We are good. We are really, really good. Thank you for funneling another $350bn of your oil revenues toward the purchase of U.S. arms. We all know that is why I stand before you here today, so let's not say otherwise. Thank you. Buy some more! We can never sell you enough. We love you. Lots of countries here, you can all buy some more. It's a great investment. It protects Americans. They're getting millions of new jobs. Americans. Millions of new jobs, every month, no kidding. I'm all about protecting Americans. I'll protect Americans and you folk can protect your own whatevers. You are doing a great job too. Keep pumping, keep paying, keep bombing. We'll bomb right along with you. Exterminate this evil, off the face of the earth. Don't you change a thing. It's for the women and children. We're not telling you what to do, no sir. We love women and children and young people. You sure have a lot of young people. Love this town, great town, my favorite town. You and we are the champions of peace and love and civilization. I love your religion. Great religion. Great civilization. Let's have a Triple Abrahamic God Team-up and kick some ass and trade and do commerce and stuff. Buy our arms? Great arms. We look forward to the intensified war you will unleash under our sponsorship, with these shining new arms. Please pay up front. We look forward to even greater unimaginable devastation of your homelands and death and starvation of your peoples, as a result of what we are starting here today. This is the greatest assembly of the greatest leaders ever. It's history. We look forward to designating new enemies from among whatever factions end up getting their hands on some of these weapons we have sold to you today. Then we'll sell you some more. Kill everything that moves. For peace. Okay, ready for the punchline? All this terror stuff. You'll never guess. It's all because of Iran! Bet you never saw that one coming. Shall we bomb Iran? Come on, let's bomb Iran. Peace and love. I am protecting Americans. Also, who said I'm functionally illiterate? Didn't I read that right? Am I a great reader, or what? Someone wrote this, and I read it. Ethniticity. Really great job. God bless. God God God bless. Buy our arms. You will never see me here again.


Jack,

Aren't the real quotes damning enough? This is just overkill. You might as well be working for the chaosmongers. Are you?

Slow days, Trump-wise, amirite? Maybe that's why this place is a morgue.
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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 21, 2017 5:05 pm

minime » Sun May 21, 2017 1:27 pm wrote:Jack,

Aren't the real quotes damning enough? This is just overkill. You might as well be working for the chaosmongers. Are you?

Slow days, Trump-wise, amirite? Maybe that's why this place is a morgue.


Not if you're following the media coverage, the real quotes had enough boilerplate to allow them (as polite people who don't mention the obvious if it's offensive) to give nearly an opposite view of this atrocity. I'll take my accurate notes for 20 minutes and post them here, it's neither the worst use of my time (and what does that matter) nor "working for the chaosmongers." -- Are you, by the way?
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Congratulations, Stupid.

Postby minime » Sun May 21, 2017 5:43 pm

Which atrocity? The Middle East holiday? How obvious does it have to be? Especially here at RI. Talk about fantasizing to the choir. And no, your time evidently doesn't seem to matter.

Take it to a Conservative forum. Just give us the facts.

No offense intended, Jack.
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