Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby Elvis » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:55 pm

I suppose in these vehicular attacks, the possibility of remote control is always there.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:21 pm

Elvis » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:55 pm wrote:I suppose in these vehicular attacks, the possibility of remote control is always there.


Yes. They've been able to do that for years now. And I haven't seen that possibility raised anywhere else yet. (Who was that US journalist whose car crashed into a tree at high speed?)

When the news started coming in, the first thing I thought of was not Nice, and not remote-control, but this incident in Glasgow two Christmases ago

On 22 December 2014 a bin lorry collided with pedestrians in the city centre of Glasgow, Scotland, killing six and injuring fifteen others. The driver of the council-owned vehicle, Harry Clarke, said he had passed out at the wheel.

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Glas ... orry_crash


... because in many ways. the Berlin incident looked much more like a terrible accident of that kind than a deliberate attempt to murder as many people as possible.

If someone had really wanted to commit a massacre with a lorry in Berlin, he could have done it much more effectively in many other parts of town that are much more crowded and much easier to access. Ku'damm and Tauentzienstraße for instance, are very busy shopping streets just on the other side of Breitscheidplatz square. He could have ripped straight down the sidewalk there for a mile or more, mowing down crowds of Christmas shoppers at his leisure, with no risk of breaking his windshield or finding a chalet + a forest jammed into it to block his view and obstruct his steering-wheel.

Instead, that lorry took a sharp right turn into the market and almost immediately (after 60 yards, max) swerved straight back out to the left again. Why? He could have continued straight ahead through the market for another 80 yards and then turned right and mowed down many more people on the other side of the square. But no. After its very short detour through the market, that giant vehicle veered right back out and came to an abrupt halt on a busy main road without colliding with any other vehicle. What's actually remarkable is how little damage it did.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:24 pm

MacCruiskeen » Yesterday, 20:21 wrote:
Elvis » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:55 pm wrote:I suppose in these vehicular attacks, the possibility of remote control is always there.


Yes. They've been able to do that for years now. And I haven't seen that possibility raised anywhere else yet. (Who was that US journalist whose car crashed into a tree at high speed?)


Michael Hastings. Classic hit & run. Hit, as in rub-out, run, as in "Nothing to see here. Run along."

MacCruiskeen » Yesterday, 20:21 wrote:... because in many ways. the Berlin incident looked much more like a terrible accident of that kind than a deliberate attempt to murder as many people as possible.

If someone had really wanted to commit a massacre with a lorry in Berlin, he could have done it much more effectively in many other parts of town that are much more crowded and much easier to access. [snip] Instead, that lorry took a sharp right turn into the market and almost immediately (after 60 yards, max) swerved straight back out to the left again. Why?


I had already been thinking most recently about that story they had pieced together pretty early on wherein the Polish driver was to have "fought Amri heroically at the wheel, thereby saving loads more potential casualties." <<that's a paraphrase) So I had been wondering why they would have conceded the inaccuracy of this tale. First, the driver was to have been dead when it happened. Then, still alive, whereupon the hero's tale was built. Then, voluntary admitted to have been "mistaken" as further evidence had ostensibly presented itself.

As we know, they can get away with crafting such stories and nary a soul bothers to question their veracity. And it would perfectly explain why it seemed to spare so many people. But they revised the story and there is no alternative explanation but plenty to theorize about. For example, Elvis reminds me that it could have been the driver fighting with a rig that had been hijacked by remote control. But then somebody had to shoot him.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:00 am

Michael Hastings, thanks, the name escaped me.

Image

Remote control was a very distinct possibility, yes.

Back to Berlin:

Yes, the abandoned story of the Islamist Fanatic's fight with the Polish (Catholic?) driver has left them with a lot to explain. Somebody wanted to propagate a heroic Flight 93 narrative there, but something aborted it. Maybe the Berlin police refused to play along, and maybe this is why they were taken off the case and ordered to shut up.

Spiro C. Thiery wrote:For example, Elvis reminds me that it could have been the driver fighting with a rig that had been hijacked by remote control. But then somebody had to shoot him.


Several witnesses reported hearing shots at the scene after the crash, or at least something that "sounded like shots". But the pathologists say that Lukasz Urban died sometime between 4:30 and 5:30pm, i.e., around three hours before the lorry hit the market. And pathologists nowadays are pretty damn exact at establishing time-of-death. Maybe it was their precision and honesty that aborted the heroic-battle narrative.

What's Polish for "Let's roll"? For days there was talk of Lukasz Urban getting a medal from the German government, then came the pathologists' report. It was followed by a sudden abashed silence and a complete refusal to explain why the original yarn had been drip-fed anonymously to the public for days, via the mass media.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:51 pm

20.01.2017 Author: Tony Cartalucci
Gladio Again: Germany Could’ve But Didn’t Stop Berlin Attacker. Why?
Germany’s weak excuses for not apprehending a man who openly admitted he sought to acquire weapons and take human lives echo similarly convenient excuses provided by the French government following a string of fatal attacks across its territory.

Paris has claimed a lack of resources to process the large number of potential terrorists returning from battlefields France itself has helped send arms, fighters, and other forms of material support to on behalf of terrorist organizations and their allies.

Germany’s excuses might seem plausible if not for the fact that virtually every terror attack that has unfolded not only in Germany, but across all of Europe follows a similar pattern where suspects are surveilled, questioned, entrapped, even arrested and released multiple times, before ultimately carrying out spectacular, politically convenient attacks across Europe.

Another “Gladio”

Such purposeful negligence matches another chapter in Europe’s more recent history – that during the Cold War in which NATO security and intelligence agencies maintained a myriad of pan-European terrorist organizations of every imaginable variety, used to assassinate political opponents, carry out deadly and spectacular terror attacks, and otherwise use violence, fear, and intimidation to manipulate both public perception and political outcomes during elections in respective states.
full article»
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:53 pm

Here is a good example of why people are turning to RT. The points made in this interview are points you will not hear made by anyone, ever, on ARD, ZDF, RTL, VOX, ARTE, or any of the other major German TV stations, state or commercial.


Der Kriminalist Jürgen Cain Külbel und der Terrorismus-Experte Rainer Rupp im Gespräch mit dem RT Deutsch-Redakteur Kani Tuyala.

Zweifel nach Berliner Attentat:
Teil I: Es war einmal ein Ausweis
19.01.2017 • 15:56 Uhr

Experten äußern gegenüber RT Deutsch vehemente Zweifel an der offiziellen Darstellung zum Anschlag am Berliner Breitscheidplatz. Im Interview gehen der Kriminalist Jürgen Cain Külbel und der Terrorismus-Experte Rainer Rupp den zahlreichen Ungereimtheiten nach. Der erste Teil befasst sich mit den ersten Ermittlungen nach dem Anschlag, dem Auffinden der Ausweisdokumente Amris, hellsehende Journalisten und die sehr begrenzte Deutungshoheit über die Geschehnisse.



_____________________

Zweifel nach Berliner Attentat:
Teil II: Von Gefahren und Gefährdern
21.01.2017 • 08:00 Uhr

Im zweiten Teil des RT Deutsch-Interviews gehen der Kriminalist Jürgen Cain Külbel und der Terrorismus- und Geheimdienst-Experte Rainer Rupp weiteren Unstimmigkeiten rund um das Attentat am Berliner Breitscheidplatz nach. Thema sind dabei unter anderem schützende Hände, dubiose V-Männer, der NSU und politischer Maßnahmen-Aktionismus.



https://deutsch.rt.com/inland/45531-ani ... rlin-rupp/
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby KUAN » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 pm

There's an elephant in the room, and her name is Hilda
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:32 pm

KUAN » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:49 pm wrote:There's an elephant in the room, and her name is Hilda


I don't understand what you're referring to there, KUAN.

Meanwhile, the elephants are turning up in herds. Italian and German media reveal that Amri could easily have been deported at various times over the last few years, and wasn't. Nobody in either country has a good explanation as to why he wasn't deported, or at least held in preventive detention.. There is still, however, no publicly-available evidence that he was even in Berlin on the day of the incident, although we are assured such evidence exists. It also looks very much as though the number of victims has been greatly inflated.

And the anglophone media remain completely silent about the entire issue, as if there had been no further developments since Christmas.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby stefano » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:52 am

MacCruiskeen » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:32 am wrote: Italian and German media reveal that Amri could easily have been deported at various times over the last few years, and wasn't. Nobody in either country has a good explanation as to why he wasn't deported, or at least held in preventive detention..


Maybe because the Tunisians were dragging their feet on taking him (and many other young men they don't particularly want in their country) back?

Saw this today: a Tunisian "in contact with" Amri has been extradited to Berlin. The Tunisian prosecutor says he's not implicated in the Berlin attack, but maybe the German prosecutor's going to try to get him convicted for it anyway. Notable that the Jeune Afrique (which is owned by a Tunisian family) calls Amri the "suspected" and "presumed" perpetrator of the lorry attack throughout... except in the headline.

Allemagne : extradition d’un Tunisien en relation avec Anis Amri, l’auteur de l’attentat de Berlin
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:18 am

stefano » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:52 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:32 am wrote: Italian and German media reveal that Amri could easily have been deported at various times over the last few years, and wasn't. Nobody in either country has a good explanation as to why he wasn't deported, or at least held in preventive detention..


Maybe because the Tunisians were dragging their feet on taking him (and many other young men they don't particularly want in their country) back?


Nah, Interpol Tunis had already identified Amri beyond doubt as a Tunisian citizen on October 24th 2016. In any case, as Jens Gnisa, the President of the German Judges Association made clear (embarrassingly for Jäger): Amri's status as a "Foreign Fighter" and his criminal record in Germany alone (including his use of 14 fake identities) were already more than enough to justify holding him in preventive detention in Germany for up to 18 months:

Selbst als Interpol Tunis am 24. Oktober 2016 Amri zweifelsfrei als tunesischen Staatsbürger identifizieren konnte, was die Abschiebung erheblich erleichtern sollte, hätte dies nichts am damals noch fehlenden Nachweis der Gefährlichkeit des späteren Attentäters für eine Abschiebungsanordnung geändert, argumentiert das NRW-Innenministerium. Der Präsident des Deutschen Richterbundes, Jens Gnisa, hatte hingegen in den vergangenen Tagen ausgeführt, eine bis zu 18 Monate dauernde Sicherungshaft nach Paragraf 62 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes sei sehr wohl möglich gewesen, weil Amri mit falscher Staatsbürgerschaft nach Deutschland eingereist war, hier 14 verschiedene Identitäten angenommen und verschiedene Straftaten begangen hatte.

http://www.waz.de/politik/fall-amri-jae ... 13987.html


Tunisia "dragging its feet" had nothing to do with it. Amri should have been in jail pending deportation, instead he was allowed and encouraged by the German authorities to tour the Bundesrepublik at his leisure. And NB, there is still not an ounce of proof that he was even in Berlin on the day of the attack, much less that he dunnit. The question is not whether or not Amri was a Good Guy (clearly he was a violent criminal and a fraudster at the very least), but whether or not he actually committed the massacre in Berlin that has been pinned on him posthumously. He looks more and more like a patsy.

Saw this today: a Tunisian "in contact with" Amri has been extradited to Berlin. The Tunisian prosecutor says he's not implicated in the Berlin attack, but maybe the German prosecutor's going to try to get him convicted for it anyway. Notable that the Jeune Afrique (which is owned by a Tunisian family) calls Amri the "suspected" and "presumed" perpetrator of the lorry attack throughout... except in the headline.

Allemagne : extradition d’un Tunisien en relation avec Anis Amri, l’auteur de l’attentat de Berlin


Yeah, that's the way it works every time in this postlegal age: the dead suspect becomes the perpetrator by a process of osmosis in the media. Hardly anyone outiside Germany is paying close attention by now.
Meanwhile the noise-machine pumps out the non-news that a nameless acquaintance of the dead Amri (someone admittedly not even implicated in the crime!) has been deported to Tunisia. Y'know: So what?
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby semper occultus » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:57 am

...hmmmmm...

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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby stefano » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:47 am

Via WikiLeaks today.

Image

That's not talking about controlling a vehicle using a remote control installed at some earlier point - it's taking over any modern vehicle at any point at all. I suppose some vehicles will be more susceptible than others.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:13 pm

Remember that speeding, marauding, unavoidably fast lorry? Now they turn round and tell us it was travelling at -- wait for it -- 9.2 mph:

"Um kurz nach 20 Uhr hält er an einer roten Ampel. Als die Ampel auf Grün springt, fährt Amri [sic] an. Es ist 20.02 Uhr. Mit rund 15 km/h schiebt sich der Lkw auf den Weihnachtsmarkt. 15 km/h sind nicht besonders schnell, doch an diesem Abend auf dem überfüllten Markt genug, um Menschen zu überrollen und Buden niederzureißen. Die Opfer haben keine Chance. "

http://www.zeit.de/2017/15/anis-amri-an ... ettansicht


9.2 mph. This entire yarn stinks. It makes no sense at all.
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:48 pm

Faster than a speeding truck:


Running 10 MPH, Vehicle View
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnnL8v6uvvc
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Re: Lorry attack(?) at German Christmas market

Postby Harvey » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:53 pm

Motivate the troops?

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170420/two-fr ... ps-elysees

"The shooter was also killed at the scene, police confirmed, with sources telling French media he was already known to intelligence services for having already expressed a desire to kill police officers.

He has been named as 39-year-old 'Karim C', who was born in France, according to report in France. His home was raided shortly after the attack."
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