The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:11 pm

Cross post because it makes more sense here:

.

Observation, then I go again:

The American empire system is not static, it changes. It produces crises as a function of its operation, and until now its managers at each stage have always successfully reproduced it through their response to the systemic crises. (Not that it was ever easy. Oh, the travails of the ruling class!) The system adopts modified forms after each round of crisis.

Several generations on from its new birth and globalization during World War II, confronted with many global power shifts and loss of domestic consensus, it has entered a particularly unstable period. This was incipient already during the imaginary new golden age of the late 1990s, and blew up with the big crisis manifestation of 2007-9.

The ascendance of a Trump, especially the Trump, who is like the Platonic form of himself and was already a top-10 celebrity, is a terrible symptom of power elite decline and the more general socio-ideological decay. In part, this is because he is such an exemplary product of this system -- fourteen seasons of NBC The Apprentice are no lie -- and also such an obvious and (formally) criminal case of everything wrong with it. The personal flourish he adds is that he is also a busy, angry, senescent loudmouth. Not incidentally, this was the key to his base appeal, the secret sauce by which he effected the hostile takeover of the GOP. Amid the hourly lies and dissembling and rambling, he regularly lets out unspeakable truths about how the system actually works. ("Do you think we don't have killers?" "Take their oil." "Grab them by the pussy.") Therefore his ouster initially seemed necessary, even inevitable, also because of the instability involved when a mid-level money-laundering con-artist family org headed by a whack-job playing Hitler on TV purports to run the empire by fiat pronouncements. It posed an unprecedented disaster for systemic credibility.

The regime's attempted solution has been, predictably, to ally very closely with the worst avatars of imperial adventurism, the worst elements among the foreign allies, and the most aggressive elements of the real Deep State, which resides in places like Langley and is currently chieftained by Pompeo Maximus and Mini-Bolton. (I don't think the Dulles brothers would have ever seen that coming. And there is no McCloy or Rockefeller figure able to create consensus, I mean who? Bloomberg? Gates? Bezos?!) From the start, they have been looking for what I called America's New War, Part 2017.

The attempted response of the rump establishment power elite has been to cast the Little Gangster From Queens Who Could as a foreign enemy run by remote from a distant capital. Nothing less than the post-modern Red Scare 3.0 would suffice, and it synced for those who prefer that We Have Always Been at War with Eurasia not Eastasia. (This factional wrangling over whether China or Russia is the Global Enemy meanwhile drives them together.)

Which brings us to today's installment. The Cohen testimony is exemplary of the contradiction between Trump as the unwanted kitschy flower of the American system who practically had the presidency handed to him by the corporate media, as against the attempt to style his ascent as the product of a deeply hidden foreign intervention. Cohen presented a theatrical exposure of the conventional criminal Trump Organization, with solid evidence from the inside such as the financial disclosures and the check used to buy the silence of Trump's temp-job courtesans. But the show requires the Russia-Wikileaks narrative to be pasted on, and treated as though it is somehow the news lede, through the device of Cohen saying he heard (most likely true) about how his fellow grifter, Roger Stone, was running his own con on the Trumps, bragging about his made-up inside line to Assange.

Trump being ousted for his assuredly criminal dealings as an exemplary standard capitalist wealth-maximizer is damaging to a wobbly system in which a growing majority now justifiably hates the billionaires, and a glimmer of good news for those hoping for a better world. His being ousted for the #Russiagate construct is seen as the best outcome for the system, and is of course potentially very bad for hopes of a better world, given that it involves perpetuation (and added destabilization) of the global state of nuclear superpower cold war.

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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby RocketMan » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:50 pm

Regarding the Cohen testimony, there's this one contradiction that I suddenly realized:

If Trump was always of the mind that he would never ever be WEALLY PWESIDENT, and used the presidential run just as a personal brand marketing platform, why would he have sought out Russian help to ascend to that very presidency that he was absolutely not wanting to win??
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:52 pm

trump is being blackmailed by Putin...Putin knows more about trump than the American people

and trump is blackmailing other people....his is known for doing that
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby RocketMan » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:55 pm

seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:52 pm wrote:trump is being blackmailed by Putin...Putin knows more about trump than the American people

and trump is blackmailing other people....his is known for doing that


So let me get this straight. Putin made Trump president against his own will? Is that the going theory?
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:01 pm

no

why do you think trump is pushing the Putin line on everything from NK to sanctions being lifted

to 5 conversations with Putin being kept secret from the America people
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:36 pm

RocketMan » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:50 pm wrote:Regarding the Cohen testimony, there's this one contradiction that I suddenly realized:

If Trump was always of the mind that he would never ever be WEALLY PWESIDENT, and used the presidential run just as a personal brand marketing platform, why would he have sought out Russian help to ascend to that very presidency that he was absolutely not wanting to win??


Indeed, though I don't know about absolutely. Michael Moore covers this part -- wherein Trump discovered he could actually win, and liked it -- pretty plausibly in Fahrenheit 11/9, which I recommend for various reasons, with caveats.

Meanwhile, let us pity the people of South Korea and its overwhelmingly elected peace president, Moon. They never get the credit they deserve, at least not from the US corporate media and its faithful followers, as the architects of everything that's happened with the peace process ever since Trump's promise to nuke the shit out of NK in front of the UN (a war crime in words unto its own, unfortunately forgotten).

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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:05 pm

seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:01 pm wrote:no

why do you think trump is pushing the Putin line on everything from NK to sanctions being lifted


Ideological overlap, similarity and inspiration? Probably only partially conscious admiration for Putin's swagger and muscular physique?

Wake me up when Bolsonaro has been revealed as Julian Assange's and Pam Anderson's bastard love-golem too.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:10 pm

liminalOyster » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:05 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:01 pm wrote:no

why do you think trump is pushing the Putin line on everything from NK to sanctions being lifted


Ideological overlap, similarity and inspiration? Probably only partially conscious admiration for Putin's swagger and muscular physique?

Wake me up when Bolsonaro has been revealed as Julian Assange's and Pam Anderson's bastard love-golem too.



:P

you know I can see that .....but that trump tower Moscow was tugging at his deutsche heart strings ...the things we do for love :lovehearts:

a October 28, 2015 love letter of intent...signed sealed delivered I'm yours
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:17 pm

A couple of hotels in Moscow are nothing. Hotels are nothing compared to the lustful zeal for global power. The "elites" are there for power. They've already got more wealth than they can spend. At a certain point the scales tip from amassing piles of money to power. We're talking about global control and geo-political intrigue that makes the Monopoly board look like chump change.

Rhetoric about nuking NK is just talk. Trump knows there would be serious repercussions if he ordered NK nuked.

I'll be seriously shocked if Trump gets impeached and convicted. If the Democrats have wised up they know that if they go after him too hard Trump's base will rise up and re-elect the bastard. Look back at the events where Trump (and the right) have been heavily attacked. The base that elected him will support him vigorously if they believe that they perceive the left is pushing too far. All this Russia crap is just the usual politics that is full of screeching noise and most people are weary of it.

All this media noise is focused for a reason and it sure as hell isn't being spewed to publish the truth. Sheesh, I think we need a new thread on how to dissect the media and a basics 101 on how to tell shit from shinola with the MSM.

Aside from all that...and this is a wacky idea I've pondered, is the re-unification of the Koreas. Imagine if that happened and instead U.S. and SK troops always looking to the north they turned about face toward China. The consumerist driven economic "reform" of the NK would be driven by the peace loving ( :rofl2 ) U.S. and SK. It would bolster the encirclement of China with the 'Stans on the western borders and Burma in the south.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Elvis » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:43 am

Karmamatterz wrote:Sheesh, I think we need a new thread on how to dissect the media and a basics 101 on how to tell shit from shinola with the MSM.

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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:55 am

Agreeing with most of the gist of these comments but with some contrary points:

Karmamatterz » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:17 pm wrote:A couple of hotels in Moscow are nothing. Hotels are nothing compared to the lustful zeal for global power.


Hotels are money potential. Money is not separable from power cleanly in the way you suggest. Lusting for power is also lusting for money. The hotel makes money (inseparable from and convertible to power) while also providing a symbol with a name on it (direct announcement of power). More importantly, since there are at least two sides to any transaction, power always comes into it. There will always be an imbalance to work through towards a deal, and a context in which the deal may be part of something else. One side may want something different than the other. (These are general thoughts, not so much about the Moscow Trump deal, which much evidence suggests was a sorry joke of a failure. Sater was a grifter playing Cohen. Months into it Cohen used a website form in an effort to get in touch with Putin's PR office. Come on.)

Rhetoric about nuking NK is just talk. Trump knows there would be serious repercussions if he ordered NK nuked.


Absolutely not. Rhetoric about waging nuclear war, in front of the UN, is never just talk! It raises the odds of a nuclear war by some undefinable but certain measure, and anything that does that in my mind is close to a war crime. It is similar to rhetoric encouraging violence, which is never "just talk." This is not a board game. You cannot assume always-rational actors sharing rules and always having perfect perception and information and sharing the same cultural/personal contexts for interpreting it. You cannot assume just because a threat is crazy, the person making it is not, and it's just a mad-dog ploy. The threat could be carried out, or it could inspire a material response. If an accident or some crisis develops, the threat is remembered as part of the context. An accumulation of such threats from various sides normalize them, which is on the way to normalizing actual use. I don't care how low the chances are in any given time period. The stakes are world destruction. Come on.

I'll be seriously shocked if Trump gets impeached and convicted.


I don't know about shocked. Impeachment can happen, but conviction is out of the question because of the Senate. It would take something like him committing live-broadcast homicide of a helpless white person while reading a list of GOP donors and telling voters not to vote Republican.

If the Democrats have wised up they know that if they go after him too hard Trump's base will rise up and re-elect the bastard...


Depends what they're going after him for, on what timetable and plan, and how the context develops. I think AOC showed a great sample of how to go after the businesses, which will erode loyalty to Trump. Marcy Wheeler and #Russiagate are a great sample of how to fuck it up and "unite the right." It should absolutely not be replaying the 2016 election propaganda, because then the enemy becomes "Clinton" again and it has the effect you say. An effective strategy would be a slow boil, not too flashy, that publicly locates Trump's position as a kleptocrat and liar who fucks over everyone else except the richy-richiest, both in business and as president. Key question, is there going to be an economic crisis manifestation this year? Also, does a strategy motivate a strong base on the left to counter mobilization on the right? If Trump is sufficiently damaged and the regime's room for maneuver neutralized, impeachment becomes less important. Pence ascending could be spun into a "renewal" and a wild-card in the election.

All this Russia crap is just the usual politics that is full of screeching noise and most people are weary of it.


Pretty much. It's no secret here what I've written on it.

All this media noise is focused for a reason and it sure as hell isn't being spewed to publish the truth. Sheesh, I think we need a new thread on how to dissect the media and a basics 101 on how to tell shit from shinola with the MSM.


Sure. What good would it do?

Aside from all that...and this is a wacky idea I've pondered, is the re-unification of the Koreas. Imagine if that happened and instead U.S. and SK troops always looking to the north they turned about face toward China.


I'd bet it won't go that way. Rail lines would be built and the goods would flow. There would be more trade with China than the US.

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We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby RocketMan » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:41 pm

When you've lost The Politico...

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... le-1202141

Trump-Russia dossier author Christopher Steele backs out of public appearance

Christopher Steele, the British spook who authored a largely unverified dossier about President Donald Trump’s alleged ties to Russia, has backed out of plans to speak by video at a pro-democracy gathering in Baltimore next week, according to conference organizers.
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-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm

.

You've just inspired another copy/paste deluge, RocketMan. :wink

Depending on how the #Russiagate FAIL will eventually be played in the media, it may re-catapult Trump into relative 'folk hero' status among a certain swath of Americana. Trump, facing "The Establishment" and their myriad attempts to take him down with false claims. Hero status among those that subscribe to such things.

2020 will be an interesting year, to be sure.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:03 pm

Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm wrote:.
it may re-catapult Trump into relative 'folk hero' status among a certain swath of Americana.


Given how predictable said outcome was from the get-go, it'd be wilfully auto-lobotomous to rule out that this was always anticipated. Impeachment and all that high-stakes constitutional crisis shit would've been waaaaay too threatening to the ptb. This, OTOH, is great. The #nevertrump base is gung-fucking-ho and ready to go and folk-hero trump appears (to average dems) as part of the same old beholden pale horse racist mythos. I'd sorta say - meh - the groundhogs day of 2015/9 has begun with a whimper.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:07 pm

.

Indeed. Good read, LiminalO.
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