The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:05 pm

.
Wombaticus Rex » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:24 pm wrote:Closing of Hougan's Spooks 1978

However difficult they may be to solve, the problems manifested by the private use of secret agents are fundamental to the well-being of a democratic society. If we ignore those problems, we're likely to witness the emergence of a new sort of totalitarianism, an industrial regime of secret agents and manipulators operating within the framework of a state that has become only nominally democratic.

If that happens, it will be too late for any exorcist.


And there it is, the epitaph.

A minor nit-pick Re: 'ignoring those problems': one must need to first be aware of the existence of a problem before it can be ignored.

Who knew of this in '78? Or now? Only those that choose to sift past the noise. And those excavators are unlikely to be in a position to do anything about it.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby dada » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:16 pm

JackRiddler » Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:15 pm wrote:
Is it, though? Isn't this the thread for making the case he's been overblown? At least as an originator or an influence?


Originators don't always get the credit. But I guess if we're asking if he's an influence as in when one musician asks another "what are your influences?" Then, no.

Maybe he's been overblown. Have you seen he just got fired, again? Or he quit. Or he quit and got fired. Hard to tell. But you'll notice, even his absences are significant, strategic.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby semper occultus » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:29 am

the other funny thing about the Steele Dossier is it was the Dems dirt-digging operation on Trump, while the dumbed down, almost innocently naive & clueless Trump version - the infamous Don Jr meeting in Trump Tower with some shady Russkie became yet another piece of cardboard scenery on the whole collusion stage show
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:38 pm

I'm giggling.


Exclusive: Trump says China wants him to lose re-election race

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Wednesday he believes China’s handling of the coronavirus is proof that Beijing “will do anything they can” to make him lose his re-election bid in November.

In an interview with Reuters in the Oval Office, Trump said he was looking at different options in terms of consequences for China over the virus. “I can do a lot,” he said.

Trump has been heaping blame on China for a global pandemic that has killed at least 60,000 people in the United States according to a Reuters tally, and thrown the U.S. economy into a deep recession, putting in jeopardy his hopes for another four-year term.

The Republican president, often accused of not acting early enough to prepare the United States for the spread of the virus, said he believed China should have been more active in letting the world know about the coronavirus much sooner.

Asked whether he was considering the use of tariffs or even debt write-offs for China, Trump would not offer specifics. “There are many things I can do,” he said. “We’re looking for what happened.”

“China will do anything they can to have me lose this race,” said Trump. He said he believes Beijing wants his Democratic opponent, Joe Biden, to win the race to ease the pressure Trump has placed on China over trade and other issues.

Trump also said South Korea has agreed to pay the United States more money for a defense cooperation agreement but would not be drawn out on how much.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN22C01F
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Tue May 12, 2020 9:23 pm

.

This is really the end of #Russiagate. All they ever had was the Crowdstrike claims and, ahem, IRA. Now it's all gone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Sw7TbmfN8
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Grizzly » Wed May 13, 2020 12:30 am

^^^

Wait!!! Now we need to hear from slad, and her pal the Jerk.
If Barthes can forgive me, “What the public wants is the image of passion Justice, not passion Justice itself.”
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed May 13, 2020 4:44 am

I think they are both at particular risk from this virus so I just hope they are ok.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Elvis » Wed May 13, 2020 5:26 am

JackRiddler » Tue May 12, 2020 6:23 pm wrote:.

This is really the end of #Russiagate. All they ever had was the Crowdstrike claims and, ahem, IRA. Now it's all gone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Sw7TbmfN8


I posted this video in another venue for the benefit of a dear old friend who for the last four years has railed angrily about Russian interference in 2016, dismissing and denouncing any questioning of the Crowdstrike report. For my effort, I got a snarky comparison to "coronavirus is a hoax." I'm afraid that for many, this revelation will change nothing.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 13, 2020 5:41 am

Sure, it's not convincing the hardcore directly, but I think the cumulative effect of wearing it down will be obvious in the same way that it was with WMD years later. Especially after the dud impeachment followed almost directly by the complete conversion to Corona panic, rendering everything about the Russigate to Ukrainian impeachment arc irrelevant (other than the correct idea that "Trump is bad.") Unfortunately long after it had its effects, intended or otherwise, of distracting from what really happened in 2016, keeping the NCW going, and using fake or overblown abuses to shield Trump from the real consequences of real abuses. And it won't necessarily exclude a repetition in the form of new Russia scare stories. So, yeah.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby 0_0 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:49 am

“If a lie be believed only for an hour, it hath done its work.”

― Jonathan Swift
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby stickdog99 » Wed May 13, 2020 4:06 pm

JackRiddler » 13 May 2020 09:41 wrote:Sure, it's not convincing the hardcore directly, but I think the cumulative effect of wearing it down will be obvious in the same way that it was with WMD years later. Especially after the dud impeachment followed almost directly by the complete conversion to Corona panic, rendering everything about the Russigate to Ukrainian impeachment arc irrelevant (other than the correct idea that "Trump is bad.") Unfortunately long after it had its effects, intended or otherwise, of distracting from what really happened in 2016, keeping the NCW going, and using fake or overblown abuses to shield Trump from the real consequences of real abuses. And it won't necessarily exclude a repetition in the form of new Russia scare stories. So, yeah.


To many hardcore MSNBC addicts/Democratic party establishment cheerleaders, anyone who criticizes Joe Biden is either a Russian agent or someone who has been duped by a Russian agent.

For some reason, many of the people I argue with actually seem to believe that demands for universal healthcare during a pandemic can emerge only from the Russian interference. There is no other possible explanation.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed May 13, 2020 7:12 pm

stickdog99 » 14 May 2020 06:06 wrote:
JackRiddler » 13 May 2020 09:41 wrote:Sure, it's not convincing the hardcore directly, but I think the cumulative effect of wearing it down will be obvious in the same way that it was with WMD years later. Especially after the dud impeachment followed almost directly by the complete conversion to Corona panic, rendering everything about the Russigate to Ukrainian impeachment arc irrelevant (other than the correct idea that "Trump is bad.") Unfortunately long after it had its effects, intended or otherwise, of distracting from what really happened in 2016, keeping the NCW going, and using fake or overblown abuses to shield Trump from the real consequences of real abuses. And it won't necessarily exclude a repetition in the form of new Russia scare stories. So, yeah.


To many hardcore MSNBC addicts/Democratic party establishment cheerleaders, anyone who criticizes Joe Biden is either a Russian agent or someone who has been duped by a Russian agent.

For some reason, many of the people I argue with actually seem to believe that demands for universal healthcare during a pandemic can emerge only from the Russian interference. There is no other possible explanation.


What can we say? Social media fries people's brains. It's not dependent on your political leanings.
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby SonicG » Wed May 13, 2020 10:11 pm

It's the speed of social and all electronic media that is the cause...The data moves faster than politics, faster than "real life", giving the data prevalence over real life...That reminds me, I ran across a paper matching Paul Virilio and Marshall McLuhan - I will look for it and post it somewhere relevant. It seems that Virilio is deservedly still getting referenced.
https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/speed-an ... ew-edition
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Fri May 15, 2020 1:32 pm

.

Greenwald proceeds from the Flynn news but goes through all of it. Probably best overall yet, as perspective is gained. The academic history of this is going to be a clusterfuck because textbook versions will be equivocal for half a century ("...despite the ultimate failure of the impeachment effort, President Trump's first term was conducted under the cloud of the constant revelations, some stronger than others, about the possible collusion with Russia." And then the strict correct version will seem extreme, or comical, and be called revisionist. (But I'm talking as if things are going to continue as they have and that any of this is going to matter, given the larger ruptures afoot. I know.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... B26jj0jrjc

These guys have a lot of interesting material but are probably overdoing the angle of Obama as THE central actor. I see very little evidence of the headline, "Obama PANICS." Oh please. The basic story is, in the testimony transcripts released by Schiff, everyone in the Obama admin including Clapper and Powers are saying, golly gee, I personally never saw direct evidence, but everyone knew it was so BIG! And then these same people spent the next two, three years on the airwaves screaming RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA!!! But the Duran guys apparently want to go all the way to a Trump reelection, after which they imagine that the winning criminal faction (openly fascist and fully empowered), lines up the relatively more establishment criminal faction for execution. I'd rather not do it that way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUG7LXZLGDk
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Re: The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

Postby JackRiddler » Fri May 15, 2020 1:35 pm

0_0 » Wed May 13, 2020 6:49 am wrote:“If a lie be believed only for an hour, it hath done its work.”

― Jonathan Swift


It's important to agree with you when you give that opportunity. :bigsmile
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