RI Subject - Reality Winner

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Re: RI Subject - Reality Winner

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Tue May 14, 2019 12:34 pm

JackRiddler » 11 minutes ago wrote:It can't be said he "burned himself."

As he says in the transcript from 2014, he revealed himself. As I would say, he courageously did the right thing and spoke out in person at multiple appearances. This started in 2013 and resulted in a first raid of his house by the FBI, after which he expected that they might indict him. So he knew what he was doing and of course they have been after him for five years now. Since his material was being published by Scahill in The Intercept, it was not a mystery to the bad guys regarding whom they would investigate. This has been a discretionary call by the government, which has now belatedly decided to go ahead with the repressive move. Again, in no way can this be compared to the Winner case, or be laid at the feet of the outlet that published Hale's material.

In the simplest words, there is no relevance to defending or criticizing the Intercept in this case, although of course it must be defended as a publisher. It matters most to focus on the actual perpetrator of repression, the US government.


By revealed, are you saying he admitted being Scahill's source prior to his arrest? That's not how I interpret it, though I don't discount my missing something. It's an important point, theoretically at least, as his admission would go a long way toward his successful prosecution.

You'll get no argument from me regarding sustained and consistent criticism of the perpetrator of oppression. Nevertheless, the source of any evidence that contributes to the prosecution is not to be ignored. It is possible to do that without exonerating the US government. "Focus" is not the best choice of words in this context, in my opinion.
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Re: RI Subject - Reality Winner

Postby JackRiddler » Tue May 14, 2019 1:55 pm

Spiro C. Thiery » Tue May 14, 2019 11:34 am wrote:By revealed, are you saying he admitted being Scahill's source prior to his arrest?


No, obviously.

He revealed himself in public by condemning the wars fought by the very same outfit he worked for. His employers may be evil, but they are not morons. They knew whatever he had known from his time with them. And so they knew he was almost certainly the source for the Drone Papers that appeared in The Intercept soon after. And so they investigated this, already then. And so the FBI raided his house five years ago. And so they built a case, five years ago. And so he expected to be indicted, already then. For a change, Obama didn't pull the trigger on it. Now Trump has. How this is supposed to be The Intercept's fault is not clear to me. They are a target here. It eludes me how Webb thinks it's justified to attack The Intercept for this, at the same time that the government is using Hale as a big reinforcement for the message they are already trumpeting with Assange.

That Winner's case is their fault is obvious, although their fuck-up may have been redundant. It seems very, very unlikely she would not have been caught. The move of in effect risking her life, to reveal a single document of very dubious usefulness, was extremely impulsive on her part. That doesn't excuse their incredibly shoddy handling, perhaps with malintent on the part of some of them. They really fucked it up for her, just in case she would have gotten away with it.

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Re: RI Subject - Reality Winner

Postby stickdog99 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:22 pm

JackRiddler » 14 May 2019 14:57 wrote:.

I agree. But again, even if true generally about the Intercept, or at least those there responsible for burning two sources, it's irrelevant in the Hale case. No one burned him, he spoke out himself, and we must honor his courage. This is government taking revenge and preemptively attacking others who would speak out. Hale's case demands media focus on what is actually going on: government repression that should unite even highly questionable corporate media (say, NY Times) in condemnation. So Mint Press and others are engaging in a bad kind of diversion and divisiveness when they shift the Hale case coverage to attack their competition for something that is not true.


The one positive thing all corporate media used to agree on was protecting first amendment rights. But I suppose the advent of mechanisms to disseminate information more democratically signaled the death knell of that unified front. Now we are inundated by editorial pieces implying or even explicitly arguing that some speech must be freer than other speech.
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Re: RI Subject - Reality Winner

Postby JackRiddler » Wed May 15, 2019 9:04 am

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So very true, but of course this is like the third large wave of this propaganda from the old corporate media against the Internet. They have never stopped. In the beginning (and still today) it was all about Wild West Internet, home to nothing but child pornography and terrorist bomb wholesalers and, most unpspeakably evil of all, people who download Hollywood product. Action must be taken!

Up to ten years ago it was all about the scandal that there were bloggers at all, that they were writing for free (hey, I agree with that one - pay me!!!), that they had the same rights and protections as newspaper journalists even though they could write whatever they liked, and, presumptuously enough, that loads of them actually were journalists and doing a better job of research and reporting than most of the old newspaper crew. That's not how the old crew were putting it.

Now, of course, almost all of the remaining newspaper staff ARE BLOGGERS, what used to be considered blogging activity is 90% of what's left of them, they do more Twitter than bothering to call sources. (And it's okay since most of'em are paid shit.)

Of course the multifunctional #Russiagate has also been an epic campaign for censorship on behalf of the old corporate media, and the pressure on the social media corps to return to their NSA roots and add some FBI has begun to yield results. Also, they get to displace their responsibility for Trump. Fucking history textbooks will be written that explain the election of Trump as a result of social media encouraging "polarization" and "filter bubbles" and enabling "conspiracy theory" (which never played a role in American politics ever before, seriously, and please don't confuse #Russiagate with one) and the influence of ads from a pennyante Russian spam-storefront company, and possibly have not a word about the absolutely central role of NBC and CNN in predetermining Trump's victory within the GOP. Also, Cambridge Analytica, if it is mentioned, will be made to look like some kind of minor sidekick dog of the teeny teeny tail of the Petrograd spamfront.

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