elsagate

[Jerky]

Seconded.

Actually, and ironically, I think it could very well be argued that the entire PizzaGate psyop construct, itself, is a pretty grand example of a work of art that crosses your hypothetical line in the sand.

Otherwise, please tell me, what piece in Podesta's collection do you think needs to be destroyed... for the good of us all, of course?

YOPJerky

In other words, when is "degenerate art" actually a thing? Or do artists get a moral/ethical blank check that pretty much no one else in human society gets or has ever gotten?

Would recommend a copy of the Feral House anthology Apocalypse Culture II. An approximate atlas of that exactly valley / fault line / abyss.

[yathrib]

Well, ok. If you're serious, then we are agreed that such a thing exists. I don't take pizzagate at face value, but I am not stupid, and a lot of the bizarre language and images uncovered remain, well, bizarre. And not very well accounted for, except by ad hominem attacks upon--and ridicule of--those who dare to point this out... If you can tell me what a pizza related map is, I would be grateful. Also, what kind of entertainment are preteens supposed to provide to adult men in a pool long after the normal bedtime for kids that age?

Another line that should exist: That which divides disapproving of a work of art--or anything for that matter--from advocating its legal censorship and/or physical destruction. But no, it's easier to just assume that I am advocating a mob of peasants with pitchforks scouring the Tate gallery for things that offend them.

Seconded.

Actually, and ironically, I think it could very well be argued that the entire PizzaGate psyop construct, itself, is a pretty grand example of a work of art that crosses your hypothetical line in the sand.

Otherwise, please tell me, what piece in Podesta's collection do you think needs to be destroyed... for the good of us all, of course?

[Jerky]

Yahtrib, I honestly find it amazing that you would even ask about both the "pizza related map" and the alleged hot tub pedo party. I mean, really, to not be aware of how fully debunked both those examples are -- at this late date -- it's like you've never expended even a single iota of energy to seeking out alternative potential explanations, rather than just swallowing the most extreme and bizarre interpretations whole.

Do I really need to do this? Or can I just say "google it"and trust that you will?

Well, ok. If you're serious, then we are agreed that such a thing exists. I don't take pizzagate at face value, but I am not stupid, and a lot of the bizarre language and images uncovered remain, well, bizarre. And not very well accounted for, except by ad hominem attacks upon--and ridicule of--those who dare to point this out... If you can tell me what a pizza related map is, I would be grateful. Also, what kind of entertainment are preteens supposed to provide to adult men in a pool long after the normal bedtime for kids that age?

Another line that should exist: That which divides disapproving of a work of art--or anything for that matter--from advocating its legal censorship and/or physical destruction. But no, it's easier to just assume that I am advocating a mob of peasants with pitchforks scouring the Tate gallery for things that offend them.

Seconded.

Actually, and ironically, I think it could very well be argued that the entire PizzaGate psyop construct, itself, is a pretty grand example of a work of art that crosses your hypothetical line in the sand.

Otherwise, please tell me, what piece in Podesta's collection do you think needs to be destroyed... for the good of us all, of course?

[stefano]

Following from a March BBC article on /r/elsagate, I just looked at a view of these and they are indeed actually pretty damn disturbing, regardless what their origins are. Although I could imagine on cursory glance that the weirdly elevated view counts are mostly due to the vids not having gotten properly filtered out as kid-inappropriate and likely popping up when distracted parents try to find *something* for their kids. At least that's my starting theory. What I don't get, however, is that in the video I just watched (which I wish I had not and will not link to) the adults are entirely identifiable. If they're linked to dark web stuff, I'm at least surprised they're so blase/brazen about it. Also, the video I just watched is a pretty explicit reference to the pizzagate photo with that child taped down at Comet Ping Pong. Really not sure what's going on here. But don't like the vibe I get at all.

Yeah... not sure why this has turned into a discussion of degenerate art. Jerky and yathrib I think you might be having an argument that more properly belongs in a different thread, or else making the word 'art' do a tremendous amount of work here.

I've seen a few of these videos - like everyone else, I suspect, after my boy wanted to watch Spider-man movies on my iPad, I looked up 'spider-man' on YouTube and gave him the iPad. After a bit I came and sat with him again and he was watching something really bizarre involving grown-ups in Spider-man and Elsa costumes, running round a house and behaving very weirdly. The video had come up on the side as a 'related' video, and he'd pressed on it to watch it. In that video (at least the bit I saw) there was nothing outright creepy involving pee or whatever, but I did feel I didn't want him watching it.

I think it's a money-making scam. There's more money in YouTube videos than most people realise - for instance one of the hottest names in entertainment now is a lightie called Jake Paul, 20 years old, who makes north of $1m a month just by making Jackass-style videos of himself and his mates and putting them on YouTube. And I only heard his name last week - this stuff is completely under the radar if you're an old (and I'm not even 40). So I reckon the business model is to make a video for next to nothing by filming your friends running around in costumes, and to make it appealing to kids by pushing the colour contrast up (they're very bright these things, much brighter and so more visually striking than real cartoons), and by introducing themes that are taboo for toddlers and so exciting in a transgressive way, and addictive by dint of evoking strong feelings. You buy a certain number of views from people who sell views, and then I think the videos will tend to come up by themselves as they did for us.

There might be something more sinister to them, but I don't think there is.

[mentalgongfu2]

Fyi stefano, the "degenerate art" subject was raised by the OP, who later acknowledged he started this thread to stir the pot in hopes he could accuse someone of being a gatekeeper.

anyone here hip to this?

the bad guys ragging on degenerate art again

Came on a fact finding mission looking for containment/deflection/gatekeeping devices but even the trusty old suppliers seem to be absent today.. enjoy being here forever!

Some people seem to have an infatuation with doing such things.

[stefano]

Fyi stefano, the "degenerate art" subject was raised by the OP, who later acknowledged he started this thread to stir the pot in hopes he could accuse someone of being a gatekeeper.

Right... sorry yes I missed the start of the, um, conversation. It ought to be an RI-ish topic though. Elsagate I mean.

[Jerky]

You're scolding me for making an argument that I did not, in any way, make.

Upon further research of the subject, I've discovered that the live-action Elsa Spiderman videos are the product of one of the most long running, ubiquitous, and widely despised Youtube content producers around: "Pranksters" Moe And Ethan Bradbury.

H3H3 had a great exploration of the phenomenon.



As for the bizarre (and I agree, often inappropriate) copyright busting cartoons... I dunno man. Seems like the product of someone or some group who exhibit a profound ignorance of the culture from which these characters originate. Kind of like what animators in the Philippines and/or Malaysia or some other place might produce as part of a pennies-per-hour mass production "batch animation" project, and NOT the kind of deeply subversive attempt to mold children's brains into being afraid of elevators and other such stuff. I mean, anyone who's been around kids being kids knows that pee and poo jokes are often considered quality currency. I see no reason for Illuminati freak-out panic... just better parental supervision (and yes, finding out who these idiots are so they can be schooled about what's appropriate for kids and what's not.

As for the Bradbury brothers however, I think we can safely say that they are not conspirators. They're merely fucking idiots.

Jerky

Following from a March BBC article on /r/elsagate, I just looked at a view of these and they are indeed actually pretty damn disturbing, regardless what their origins are. Although I could imagine on cursory glance that the weirdly elevated view counts are mostly due to the vids not having gotten properly filtered out as kid-inappropriate and likely popping up when distracted parents try to find *something* for their kids. At least that's my starting theory. What I don't get, however, is that in the video I just watched (which I wish I had not and will not link to) the adults are entirely identifiable. If they're linked to dark web stuff, I'm at least surprised they're so blase/brazen about it. Also, the video I just watched is a pretty explicit reference to the pizzagate photo with that child taped down at Comet Ping Pong. Really not sure what's going on here. But don't like the vibe I get at all.

Yeah... not sure why this has turned into a discussion of degenerate art. Jerky and yathrib I think you might be having an argument that more properly belongs in a different thread, or else making the word 'art' do a tremendous amount of work here.

I've seen a few of these videos - like everyone else, I suspect, after my boy wanted to watch Spider-man movies on my iPad, I looked up 'spider-man' on YouTube and gave him the iPad. After a bit I came and sat with him again and he was watching something really bizarre involving grown-ups in Spider-man and Elsa costumes, running round a house and behaving very weirdly. The video had come up on the side as a 'related' video, and he'd pressed on it to watch it. In that video (at least the bit I saw) there was nothing outright creepy involving pee or whatever, but I did feel I didn't want him watching it.

I think it's a money-making scam. There's more money in YouTube videos than most people realise - for instance one of the hottest names in entertainment now is a lightie called Jake Paul, 20 years old, who makes north of $1m a month just by making Jackass-style videos of himself and his mates and putting them on YouTube. And I only heard his name last week - this stuff is completely under the radar if you're an old (and I'm not even 40). So I reckon the business model is to make a video for next to nothing by filming your friends running around in costumes, and to make it appealing to kids by pushing the colour contrast up (they're very bright these things, much brighter and so more visually striking than real cartoons), and by introducing themes that are taboo for toddlers and so exciting in a transgressive way, and addictive by dint of evoking strong feelings. You buy a certain number of views from people who sell views, and then I think the videos will tend to come up by themselves as they did for us.

There might be something more sinister to them, but I don't think there is.

[mentalgongfu2]

It ought to be an RI-ish topic though. Elsagate I mean.

I suppose. I haven't watched any of the vids and don't intend to, but based on the descriptions it sounds like there's some sick stuff among them aimed at generating clicks and therefore income. I tend to doubt the theory that it is some effort to influence or innoculate the youth to "degenerate" behaviors, although I guess that's possible. The financial motive is more visible, whereas some deeper hidden agenda is difficult to pinpoint. In any case, I don't really have anything to add to the discussion that hasn't already been said.

[stefano]

H3H3 had a great exploration of the phenomenon.

Thanks - that is some good work by him. Underlines what I said about mad YouTube money, hey - buying an Audi R8 with clicks from abysmally stupid videos!

But... I don't know if that entirely rules out any nastier explanations. Just for instance, when he showed the guy who's got the Bentley, Coby Persin... I was curious about him and looked him up and his first video is The Dangers Of Social Media (Child Predator Social Experiment) Girl Edition! (his exclamation mark). Which I guess, is a worthwhile thing for him to do, but the connection is a bit odd.

Also notable that the elsagate subreddit is essentially an outpouring of r/the_donald, and that they're now treating this as part of the Seth Rich story. "Imran Awan," they cried.

[liminalOyster]

Creepy: https://medium.com/@BryonAdams5/elsagat ... f8ae8d3bf9

[Jerky]

Well, for what it's worth, THIS vociferous PizzaGate debunker thinks that there most definitely is something or maybe even many things worth uncovering re: Elsagate. So you're right, Stefano, H3H3's video doesn't tell the whole story (nor does it pretend to... the Bradburys and friends are obviously piggybacking onto an already existing phenomenon).

And Liminal, that bot farm story is freaky as fuck.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that the baby in the Aaren Brook profile features what appears to be a baby sitting in the middle of a country road?!

YOPJ

[liminalOyster]

This Dad Got Kicked Off YouTube For Making Disturbing Videos Of His Daughters That Millions Of People Watched

Greg Chism's YouTube channel, which featured videos of his girls screaming with fear, spitting up, wetting themselves, and bathing, had more than 8 million subscribers before it was terminated. Warning: This post contains disturbing videos.....

[liminalOyster]

YouTube Has Deleted Hundreds Of Thousands Of Disturbing Kids' Videos
The company said it deleted 150,000 videos after the discovery of exploitative content depicting children in revealing clothing, distress, and abusive situations.

Posted on November 27, 2017, at 10:52 p.m.
Blake Montgomery

YouTube said Monday it was cracking down on accounts making videos featuring children in disturbing and exploitative situations after facing backlash from the public and advertisers alike.

The Google subsidiary said in a statement to BuzzFeed News that in the last week it had "terminated more than 270 accounts and removed over 150,000 videos from the platform." It also "turned off comments on more than 625,000 videos targeted by child predators."

"Finally, we removed ads from nearly 2 million videos and over 50,000 channels masquerading as family-friendly content," YouTube said.

The company had pledged to weed out the videos and comments more proactively in a blog post published last Wednesday. Vice first reported the news Monday.

Companies like Adidas, Mars, and Hewlett-Packard have paused advertisements on YouTube for the second time in a year in response to the disturbing children's content. In March, major advertisers froze spending on YouTube after reporters found that ads were appearing alongside racist videos.

Videos that depict children in revealing clothing, distress, and abusive situations have accrued tens of millions of views on YouTube. The creators of such videos often disguise their bizarre, disturbing content as family-friendly and bypass YouTube's filters by optimizing their titles with popular search terms — "learn colors" and Frozen's Elsa, for example.

YouTube has been aware of the genre since at least September, when a video producer contacted the company to complain about the clips. Volunteer moderators told the BBC that YouTube's technical safeguards against sexual comments on children's videos had been malfunctioning for at least a year.


The backlash began earlier this month after an essay, "There's Something Wrong On The Internet," which pointed out the problems with the videos and with YouTube in particular, went viral.

Last week the company deleted the high-profile Toy Freaks account, which featured videos of creator Greg Chism's daughters screaming with fear, spitting up, wetting themselves, and bathing. The account had 8 million subscribers and racked up tens millions of views.

On Monday, YouTube's search bar, when prompted with "how to," autocompleted to "how to have s*x with your kids," though it's possible that the result was the product of an organized trolling campaign. The company said it is investigating the matter.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontgomer ... disturbing

[elfismiles]

The nightmare videos of childrens' YouTube — and what's wrong with the internet today | James Bridle
Published on Jul 13, 2018 by TED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9EKV2nSU8w

Joe Rogan Talks About ElsaGate!
Published on Nov 27, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb3GghLKJEw

RELEVANT to this thread and others as well...

Blacklisted: The Social Media Purge of 2018
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=41225

[Elvis]

Yes! Just saw another video about it, will look for it. This phenomenon is very weird — thanks.