Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

[82_28]

Show of hands. How many here have been to Vegas? It is a strange and excitingly eerie place filled with willing fantasy -- too many fantasies to take in -- too many to experience -- all of them the same -- all of them different. It is not a place where anyone has a "good reason" for going. It is more why the fuck not go? Las Vegas itself coaxes shit out of you whether you asked for it or not. It is much more than gambling, shows, parties and lights. It is something else entirely.

Many memories are made and die there. Sometimes all within one day. Sometimes without even visiting at all.



You can always see the edge of town during the day. At night it is impossibly vast, stretching as far as the eye can see.

Think, Vegas has always been a city of destruction. It has no anchor, there is no place that has not been rebuilt, redesigned, redesignated, made to be gone altogether and always within some sort of spectacle whether it be with fanfare or with an odd persistent fallowness.









That last one. The Hacienda went down new Year's Eve 1996-97 to make way for Mandalay Bay, btw.

Las Vegas Hacienda Hotel and Casino
The Hotel That Refused to Die

http://www.lasvegas-nv.com/news/hacienda-hotel.htm

Today, the latest destruction to behold of Las Vegas is directly across the street from this:



The eyes of the fake Sphinx gaze directly upon this.



That emptiness between there and the airport is where it went down. As you can see there is nothing to bounce any sound off of. What you can do, I can at least imagine, bounce a shit ton of psy-op into thousands of peoples' collective memory, already softened by hyper-stimuli and on into the great narrative. One lone gunman to the next as trump is to "release" the classified findings of the JFK investigation this month (Oct 26th). All of this "research" to be relegated unto the purported mania of conspiracy theorists forever who just can't leave it be and let the victims grieve.

There will be a strange memorial built at this location -- that is a given -- it will be saccharine and patriotic. I always wondered, really actually why that part of the strip never got developed. It's the only part of it that doesn't face jack shit. Wondered only for mundane reasons actually. Now I really wonder.

[Brentos]

As the room adjoining the suite was not a rental unit.

Again, whose word are you taking on this claim? The picture shows the "hidden" security camera cart that was supposedly in front of Paddock's adjoining room and the room number. So why are you believing whoever told you "the room adjoining the suite was not a rental unit" over you own eyes?

&

Who provided the information that "the adjoining room was part and parcel to the complimentary suite, to use or not to use it was Paddock's whim alone"? Who said "it was not a room let out for rent"? When was this information released?

Thats what I wondered too.

[Heaven Swan]

Regarding the adjoining room--there's nothing strange or baffling about this---hotels worldwide often have contiguous rooms that they outfit with special doors that can be sealed off (when they rent the rooms to separate parties) or left unlocked when they rent out the rooms together, usually to more than one guest.

That said, how tedious! This thread has gotten bogged down in minutiae.

On the other hand, I appreciate 82_28's post about Las Vegas.

The tragic event seems deeply symbolic--

While America goes down in flames, a deranged and slovenly millionaire blows his brains out, taking 59+ souls along with him, in the heart of the country's glitzy shrine to meaninglessness, debauchery and greed...

[Heaven Swan]

All the repetitive questions--Where did he get the money? No one makes that much money gambling, he must have been a gun runner, etc, etc, etc..

Let's put all this imaginative yet boring speculation to rest. He got the money investing in real estate.:


Las Vegas shooter used real estate investment to fund gambling, guns...

https://www.talkvietnam.com/2017/10/las ... ling-guns/

To the Texas brokers who met him in 2004, Stephen Paddock was an unremarkable man looking to buy an unremarkable property near Dallas, hardly distinguishable from other casually dressed Californians who flocked to the area to make investments. After touring the 111-unit apartment complex in Mesquite, Texas, with the brokers, Paddock bought it for $8.4 million, partly with the proceeds from selling some smaller properties in Los Angeles. When he sold Central Park Apartments a decade later, he had likely made $5 million to $6 million in profits, according to financial records reviewed by Reuters. Paddock's lucrative real estate ventures, which helped underwrite his high-stakes gambling, may have also allowed him to buy tens of thousands of dollars' worth of rifles and bullets in advance of his attack in Las Vegas on Sunday. A complete picture of his finances is still being assembled by investigators who are trying to fathom what drove an apparently wealthy retiree to haul …

Read more at https://www.talkvietnam.com/2017/10/las ... ling-guns/

[PufPuf93]

Great post 82--28.

I have only been to Las Vegas once and it was 1975. I traveled with then GF to Los Cruses NM to visit friends at U of NM (and get p**). I think have mentioned that GF before, I lived with her 19-24 and she was an USFS archeologist that was +/- 6 years older. On the way back from NM we had gone to White Sands, high desert by Flagstaff and Grand Canyon and were camping and sleeping on a pad in back of pick up. We spent a night in Las Vegas on the strip but did not go down town.

Jill had gone to grad school at University of NV Reno and worked middle of the night shifts as a cocktail waitress at Harvey's and basically hated the whole casino thing. Neither of us were gamblers. But we wanted showers and a bed and some food and drink but it turned into a near all night mission. We went to 8 to 10 casinos on the strip and gathered all the matchbooks possible. No one ever stopped us but then we were sneaky. We got at least 2000 matchbooks. When we got home we put together mixed lots of casino matches for gifts. We gave casino match assortments to some folks for Christmas presents. Now 40 years later I can find some of those match books in the very room I sit.

I haven't been in NV in almost 20 years and not on any bucket list horizon.

[PufPuf93]

The key to this story is where Paddock got the money and possibly some of his acquaintances we have yet to learn.

I can see as a motivation that say he had played out his wealth and provided for his woman friend before the massacre.

I can conceive that Paddock is a patsy and/or part of a larger conspiracy (that maybe went wrong).

Could even be the too common situation where the FBI is working both sides of the equation.

Like to know if he maintained any contact from Lockheed Martin days.

[Heaven Swan]

Great post 82--28.

I have only been to Las Vegas once and it was 1975. I traveled with then GF to Los Cruses NM to visit friends at U of NM (and get p**). I think have mentioned that GF before, I lived with her 19-24 and she was an USFS archeologist that was +/- 6 years older. On the way back from NM we had gone to White Sands, high desert by Flagstaff and Grand Canyon and were camping and sleeping on a pad in back of pick up. We spent a night in Las Vegas on the strip but did not go down town.

Jill had gone to grad school at University of NV Reno and worked middle of the night shifts as a cocktail waitress at Harvey's and basically hated the whole casino thing. Neither of us were gamblers. But we wanted showers and a bed and some food and drink but it turned into a near all night mission. We went to 8 to 10 casinos on the strip and gathered all the matchbooks possible. No one ever stopped us but then we were sneaky. We got at least 2000 matchbooks. When we got home we put together mixed lots of casino matches for gifts. We gave casino match assortments to some folks for Christmas presents. Now 40 years later I can find some of those match books in the very room I sit.

I haven't been in NV in almost 20 years and not on any bucket list horizon.

Funny that you mention the bucket list. A friend, before the shooting, was telling me about her reverse bucket list, i.e things she never wanted to do again and on it was going to Las Vegas.

[Heaven Swan]

At the link is a great post about symbolism and motives, it's long and has lots of photos so I'm recopying only the last two paragraphs.

Re: the motive, I find the last paragraph to be quite profound. It may sum up our answer. One crazed act inspires another...and one thing is certain...there will be others.

http://www.nickvanderleek.com/2017/10/b ... vides.html

Bestselling True Crime Author provides motive for Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock [UPDATED]

Stephen Paddock's motive was revenge. How do we know? Revenge for what? It's not rocket-science, just a tried-and-tested true crime approach - by Nick van der Leek


Last two paragraphs of the post:

We get an added sense, from the fact that Paddock took his own life, that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and was willing to pay a price for it. But he felt justified, if he was going to lose in the gamble of life and love, then someone else [it didn't matter who] also had to pay the price. Who? The society that had rejected him. The breaking of the glass of the Mandalay Hotel is symbolic of the transparency not only into the room of Paddock's broken world, but also into the world itself. We live in a world of broken people, and when we discover the world to be empty and meaningless we're devastated. We have no idea how to put the pieces of ourselves back together again. That is an indictment not only of disconnected, addicted individuals, but of a society so disconnected from itself that it has begun to elect madmen to tell it what it wants to hear, and reality be damned.

In such a world, where there is no meaning, no significance and no consequence, where money maketh and unmaketh the man, where money is the sole arbiter of value....in such a world, make no mistake, madmen will continue to come out of the woodwork. One mad act inspires another. One fragile identity seeds more fragile identities. A world where lives are reduced to money and violence isn't a world that respects life. It's a world that respects madness. Until further notice, this is the world we find ourselves in. When we're asked what the motive is of madmen, we can't see them not because they're obscure, but because we've succumbed to the madness as well. It's a madness composed of the inability to think for ourselves.

[Brentos]

There will be a strange memorial built at this location -- that is a given -- it will be saccharine and patriotic. I always wondered, really actually why that part of the strip never got developed. It's the only part of it that doesn't face jack shit. Wondered only for mundane reasons actually. Now I really wonder.

Yeah, an aspect of this event, which is hard to ignore, is the esoteric (even gnostic) angle, that many similar events have in common. I'm not totally convinced on any scenario with this story (including the mega-ritual one), but when there is meaningless slaughter of innocents, with a convenient scapegoat that is a definite red flag.

[peartreed]

Paddock’s nihilistic motivation likely stems from his identification with his father’s criminality, as the spawn of evil, combined with his more recent increasing dissatisfaction and boredom with the drive for material acquisition that motivates the rest of us. To match or exceed Daddy’s notoriety he sought infamy as release.

[The Consul]

He wanted distance & firepower.
There are thousands of bombing missions that have killed many thousands more innocent people from even greater distance.
Is he crazier than those pilots? Those Bombadiers? Those Drone commanders?

To me it's odd. There has to be a reason, damnit! And once we have the reason we can accept it or reject it like an MQ-9 launched from Seychelles by and Airforce sergeant named Judi. Target a 2016 white Toyata SR5 pickup. Principle Abu al-Khayr al-Masri. Several attempts until "confirmed" collateral pursuit casualties in the dozens if not hundreds.

End of Paddock's shift is a face rupturing bullet up under the chin.
Judi's shift ends and she goes home and has chicken pot pie.
"I love Marie Calendar's shit," she tells her hutmates as they bitch at her for wanting to binge watch Grey's Anatomy.
They think it's driving her crazy. They don't like watching all those guts.
Reminds them too much of their end product.

[Iamwhomiam]

It would be nice if you recognized my response to your question, stickdog.
It's quite frustrating to take the time to answer your questions, and pointless, in fact, if you fail to recognize your question was answered.

Your first two questions have already been answered in this thread. The adjoining room was part and parcel to the complimentary suite, to use or not to use it was Paddock's whim alone. It was not a room let out for rent.

There have been hundreds of posts on thread. I thought some Aussie claimed that he had rented the adjoining room. I thought the reason the LVPD had Paddock's check in date wrong is because he paid for his suite while his original, earlier booked room had been comped. Who provided the information that "the adjoining room was part and parcel to the complimentary suite, to use or not to use it was Paddock's whim alone"? Who said "it was not a room let out for rent"? When was this information released? How does this jibe with Lombardo's claim that Paddock paid for his suite? Why would Paddock pay for a second room to use at his whim when the suite he paid for was more than large enough for a family of four?

I don't know if any other has chosen to answer you stickdog, because I haven't read further. It seems you and perhaps others are convinced this mass murder was instigated by the FBI. I asked you to explain what you felt would be a motive for the FBI to commit this particular mass murder you chose not to answer and you now expect me to answer more of your questions?

You've been researching social media and the MSM for information about this event since it occurred, just like many of us. Why do I believe the room was comped and that it was reserved for comping preferred customers at the casino? Because it was reported and I read it or listened to it after someone posted it in this thread or from a link someone here provided to another source. I suspect it must have originated with the hotel management. so don't expect me to search it out for you. Try google.

If anything, the Aussie, if he actually exists, was in a room next to Paddock, was in the room next to 32134 or to the left of the room adjoining the suite (as shown in correct graphics of the floor plan), 2 doors down from the suite.

You know the FBI did it and I don't even know if "Paddock" ever existed. Your turn.

[Iamwhomiam]

Thank you. That's my belief as well, smiles, though I don't discount witnesses reporting having seen other gunmen in well-armed Vegas. If I was there and carrying, after hearing automatic gunfire I would have drawn my weapon, too. So I believe some reports of secondary gunmen are credible.

I know you were fortunate in not having been injured in the mass shooting you experienced and that you have a perspective I don't share, exactly. I and a half dozen friends were just arriving at an in-progress Roberta Flack concert in NYC's Central Park when someone not 20 feet from me started shooting. Being in the middle of the crowd I experienced the fear and mass panic of tens of thousands fleeing for their life. Fortunately, few were injured and many were arrested. It was a terrifying ordeal for all, I'm sure, as it was for me. A classic stampede. Something to note for one's personal history, but horrible to experience.

Although you before had mentioned being at a shooting, It never hit home with me until after reading your recent recollection of that experience. There are many experiences we have during our lives I feel we could do without, but for whatever reason we do experience them, sad as they may be.

You've always been polite to others, elfis and more often than not provide sources for the material you're posting, and I believe you're rational in your approach when discussing controversial topics. I've always appreciated your posts and will continue doing so as long I am able and you remain sane.

Iam - I'm not convinced of other shooters either ... I still have questions but I lean towards a series of panics spreading outward triggered from the original shooting epicenter.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Vegas,+NV/@36.0917335,-115.1721584,726m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80beb782a4f57dd1:0x3accd5e6d5b379a3!8m2!3d36.1699412!4d-115.1398296

It seems I got turned around somehow. Only the Tropicana is in between the venue and Hooters with Hooters only a block away from the venue. It would be logical to either seek shelter at the Tropicana or Hooters especially, because the emergency vehicles were queued there.

I know you're trying your best, elfis, and offering info on another shooter, but I've not seen any evidence to convince me another shooter or shooters were active during the few minutes the alleged shooter, Paddock, was firing his weapon or anytime after. No other audio or photos of another shooting elsewhere, with tens of thousands of people present? Not a person reported wounded at another site. Not a bullet hole or broken glass anywhere else.

[stickdog99]

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2017/oct ... afe-haven/

For many who survived carnage, Tropicana became a safe haven

By Ricardo Torres-Cortez
Tue, Oct 3, 2017 (2 a.m.)

It's 11:08 p.m. Sunday, an hour after a barrage of gunfire began to fall upon thousands of attendees of a country music concert, many of whom turned from dancing to sprinting toward Tropicana Avenue, desperately trying not to be a statistic in the worst modern mass shooting in U.S. history.

A woman runs and talks on the phone, telling the caller to alert someone. Others sprint behind her, some jog, each visibly distraught, and no one looks back.

“Terrorism …” a man wonders out loud. At this point, medics have set up a triage area near the Hooters casino, and people are treated on the spot, while ambulances fly down Tropicana.

A man and a woman sit on an exterior stairway of the Tropicana resort.

Candace LaRosa is enjoying Jason Aldean's performance at the Route 91 Harvest Festival. This is until a man smashes two glass windows of his 32nd floor Mandalay Bay suite, and with an arsenal of rifles on hand, fires indiscriminately onto the crowd below.

“We were all dancing having a good time, and all of a sudden we hear all these shots as part of a fireworks show,” LaRosa said. “We just got to dancing, dancing, dancing and it just went crazy. There had to be a thousand rounds going off.”

It wasn’t long before she finds out it's not fireworks she's hearing, and the blood soaking the ground is there to prove it.

She said she saw a bullet pierce a boy she described as being about 16 or 17.

Two men wave people inside a dusty utility room at the Tropicana — there is water and you’ll be safe, they say.

Once the displaced concertgoers are inside, the men guard the door and direct the evacuees toward a conjoined hallway, where a woman’s arm is bleeding profusely while a man applies a tourniquet. An older woman whose back is bleeding is cared for by a couple of good Samaritans.

Amid the chaos, unfounded rumors are swirling: Is there a commando of gunmen who can soon make their way into the impromptu shelter? Has there been an explosion at one of the casinos? Did one of the evacuees have a heart attack?

A woman desperately pleads for an asthma inhaler for someone in need. Is there aspirin in the first-aid kit?

Patrick Martin finds relief when he hears from his son, who had stayed behind to help evacuate the grounds.

"All I heard was a lot of bang, bang, bang, and everybody hit the ground and everybody started running" in different directions, Martin said about the shooting.

It initially sounded like fireworks, a line oft repeated by others.

A man who seized a leadership role announces, "They're nowhere near us, you're safe."

"Are they terrorists?" asked a woman, but the man doesn't know.

Paramedics and police in armored gear enter the utility room and through the hallway carrying a stretcher, but they decide to leave without patients.

...

A broadcast system announces that police have cleared the property and invites the survivors to a ballroom area. Water, white towels and sheets are distributed by hotel staff, and several hundred people begin to make their beds in the middle of the carpeted floor.

...

She described running underneath tables and hearing gunfire in successive staccatos. They were "literally praying" and trying to get everyone covered while the gunman stopped to apparently reload. "People knew that more was coming."

Shots in "extremely rapid fire" compelled the crowd to scatter in different directions in "mass confusion," Marty Philip said. "You don't know where to go and you don't know how to protect yourself initially."

There were volleys, pauses and more volleys," Philip said, adding that he got on the ground in front of a food station, still not knowing where the gunshots were coming from or whether he was safe.

Janet Muzio remembers being near the front row when she heard gunshots and was soon being trampled by others trying to jump to safety.

"Get off my leg, get off my leg," she remembers thinking.

As Muzio ran away, she recalled a desolated field with shoes and bottles littered about.

It's the middle of the morning, and while some victims continue sharing survival stories, others were overtaken by sleep, perhaps a welcome escape from the horror just experienced.

At some point, a Metro Police substation commander uses a megaphone to plead for patience. “I’m so sorry that this happened when you’re here on vacation — don’t let it be a reflection of our great city. I hope you come back again someday.”

[stickdog99]

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000 ... 95&ref=cta

So the NY Times says Paddock fired at Campos after firing into the crowd?

And the cab driver shots that obviously sound different are more interior shots?

The FBI should have let this guy produce the official narrative from the start.

At 10:12, still no police presence in from of Mandalay Bay.

I love the unmentioned one hour jump in the timeline from around the 10 minute mark.