Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stefano » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:01 pm

stickdog99 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:21 pm wrote:Since Columbine, the protocols for dealing with any active shooter are the exact opposite of "wait for a SWAT team." ... Columbine resulted in new approaches in which patrol officers are being trained to respond to active shooters as quickly as possible.

Right, thanks. OK yeah then reason to suspect they were ordered to hang back.

semper occultus » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:43 pm wrote:both the tattoo & later lack of same equally :starz:

I don't think he had a tattoo on his throat.

Image

Also I don't think anyone with an interest in remaining connected to reality should be reading Aangirfan. "Trump is a gay Jew! In fact they're all Jews! That woman's not dead, she hasn't wet herself or turned blue! Marilou Danley was in Dubai, do you know who else has been there!?" Jesus, what a complete fucking loon.

JackRiddler wrote:Nothing wrong with overkill capacity, there's only going to be one ride, everything planned through and table-top rehearsed and trained for. And then 200 shots exchanged with the security, see? He never wants to run out of ammo.

Yeah I don't mean ammo, I mean the number of rifles. Even accounting for

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:50 pm wrote:When you're pumping rounds through rifles with extended cartridges at bumpfire rates, they get completely unusable for a good ten to fifteen minutes.


which I didn't know, that would still mean if you took five or six backups for overheating or jams you would be covered? 23 is next level. Although it seems like an addictive hobby, gun collecting.

On the fuel tank thing - looks like you can buy tracer ammo in the States, would one not want to use that to try starting an explosion?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:31 pm

stefano » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 pm wrote:
which I didn't know, that would still mean if you took five or six backups for overheating or jams you would be covered? 23 is next level. Although it seems like an addictive hobby, gun collecting.


Well, depends on your definition of "covered" -- I'd be all set for a bitchin' youtube video, sure. Killing an entire concert at distance and then shooting my way back to my car? 23 is almost minimalist.

stefano » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:01 pm wrote:On the fuel tank thing - looks like you can buy tracer ammo in the States, would one not want to use that to try starting an explosion?


Having talked to some pilot pals, apparently fuel tanks are very hard to blow up these days because the gas/vapor is so controlled now. (Federal law!)

But, tracer rounds are definitely a thought.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby 82_28 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:36 pm

There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:45 pm

An Australian eyewitness quoted in the Australian media:

Wendy Miller from Cooroy, on the Sunshine Coast, was also caught up in the attack.

She was at a bar in the nearby Luxor Hotel with her husband when she saw what she described as a “man of interest” run by.

“We managed to make our way back to our room…” she told The Courier-Mail.

“We are in lock down.

“Our door is dead locked and a chair against the door.”

Ms Miller said the man sprinted through her hotel after coming off an escalator from the Mandalay Bay.

“The man that they [security] were chasing was wearing a security jacket like them,” she said.


http://www.news.com.au / http://www.couriermail.com.au
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:46 pm

On the number of guns you are really looking at this like a good human being rather than from the perspective of someone who actually wants to do this, has unlimited resources for the job (in relation to the required logistics), wants to do it as perfectly as possible and go as long with it as possible. Why not the shopping spree? Why not have ten times the needed capacity if possible? Why not always have a gun within arm's length anywhere in the suite? As WR says, if he'd hit the tank he might have escaped. (And lord save us in that case, because every theory would be in play forevermore.) Or gone on to the cars and done phase 2.

You're thinking like a civilized person. Think more like the Pentagon. Does it ever have enough bombs for the job? No. Think like a hoarder. Think like a collector. Every additional step of preparation and logistical planning taken contributes and helps modify the eventual plan. The whole process is a reward in itself to this person. (I am not much like this but it's easy to step into the mentality if you've met enough people who love tinkering and designing.) No reason to rush. No reason to settle for six guns.

Firing on security and shooting the first guard in the leg were absolutely reported during the long night of coverage Sunday to Monday. This is not a new story, only more details that one can dispute as one likes.

Who told hotel security to stand down? Are you kidding? What are they, the secret service? The suicide squad? Who says anyone had to tell them to "stand down"?

Response time: Is this the military? Just because they claim to have rehearsed and be fully prepared, you think they're on top of this? Very much depends. There are stampedes and second gunman reports, personnel and resources are spread and must be assembled, and once focused they are also preparing overkill capacity just like the shooter did in his preparation. They're also considering possible traps and explosives. None of them want to die.

The public and the media and the politicians and the institutions of oversight require absolutely zero explanation of the period of time for the police response. Whether or not it was justified and done by the rules, the LV police have an automatic pass and will be praised as heroes no matter what. They don't care what people on Internet boards think, there's a new strategy for that in the "Fake News!" and social media control age. There would never be a reason to insert cameras afterwards just to make an excuse for themselves (and then, where's the camera footage?).

General PS - The six minute version of E. Paddock and the quotes chosen as summary by chump are both lite versions that just give the emotional cues without the details. The full version makes it abundantly clear that Eric sees how his brother would have done all this in the detail. e.g., of course he'd have had a tripod, of course he'd do this or that, of course he'd have overkill, because he was a thorough worker, etc. Eric's confounded by the decision, not the manner in which it was executed which he sees as fully in character. Professional, even.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:15 pm

5 Glaring Inconsistencies in the Vegas Shooting that Need to be Addressed

October 3, 2017

Image

By Matt Agorist

Throughout history, there have been well-documented and factual occurrences of governments carrying staged events to manipulate the public into passing a law, accepting a war, or any other means of implementing control. These acts have been admitted to by the state, are 100 percent real. They happen so often that they have their own term—false flag.

There is a fine line to walk, however, between questioning everything and automatically assuming everything is a government conspiracy or false flag. Those who immediately claim every violent tragedy or event is a false flag often do more damage to the fight for truth than those who blindly accept everything their government tells them as the truth.

Every time an event happens it is important to keep an open mind, look for inconsistencies, try to find contradictions or impossibilities made to look possible, and always avoid jumping to conclusions.

Given the current information that has been released so far in the tragic shooting in Las Vegas, it appears that most everything we’ve been told so far is true and many of the inconsistencies appear to have come up from the mass hysteria and confusion surrounding such a violent and tragic event.

However, while most of what we are being told appears to be true, there are still some glaring inconsistencies that need to be addressed. The Free Thought Project has come up with a list of the top five inconsistencies surrounding this tragedy and we feel it is important to point them out to ultimately find the truth. Unlike other irresponsible outlets—rife with falsehoods—we will not attempt to claim we know the truth, nor speculate on a motive.

1. Stephen Paddock did not fit the bill for a mass murderer.

This is perhaps the most glaring of all the inconsistencies as most of the recent psychopath mass murderers in recent history made moves prior to killing that were consistent with being a psychopathic killer. Paddock did not.

Most odd was the fact that Paddock was rich. He was an accountant, lived in a half million dollar home in a retirement community and had no criminal record.

Paddock’s brother, Eric Paddock was equally stunned to hear about what his brother had done as he had just talked to him. “We’re still just completely befuddled. Dumbstruck,” he said.

He described his brother as having “no history of violence. No history of anything couldn’t give a s*** less about politics, religion, pointy hatted people etc, etc. He just wanted to get a freaking royal flush.”

Eric said he had last talked to his brother when he called down to Florida to see how his mother was making out after losing power from hurricane Irma. How many mass murderers call to check on their mother before going on to slaughter dozens of innocent people?

2. Paddock was still playing with his girlfriend’s casino card trying to rack up points the night of the shooting.

Eric Paddock said how his brother “loved to gamble. He loved — when I say loved — it was a job. It was fun because people were nice to him.”

Paddock was a regular in Vegas. He’d even been captured on surveillance footage in the Cosmopolitan Casino in 2011 in which he was seen falling. He later tried to sue the hotel for getting hurt and even then everyone remained cordial and nice to him.

Prior to the shooting, Paddock had been at the Mandalay Bay casino for four days and had not done anything out of the ordinary to garner the attention of hotel security.

He had simply been gambling. While it is possible that he was simply blending in to maintain his cover and wait for the moment to strike, the fact that he used his girlfriend’s slot machine card seems completely out of the ordinary.

For those who don’t know, slot cards or gambling cards are ways casinos track loyal customers. When you rack up enough points, they will comp a room or a meal for you. Paddock was playing with this card—essentially planning for future comps—on the very night he opened fire on a crowd of 22,000 people.

Blending in is one thing, but racking up points to plan for future benefits on the night you are going to commit mass murder seems glaringly inconsistent.

3. Surveillance footage of Paddock inside the hotel has yet to be released.

In most mass shootings, within 24 hours we usually see at least a still image of the perpetrator as captured by the building’s surveillance cameras. In Paddock’s case, as of the time this article was published, none of this footage has been released.

Why not release at least a single shot of Paddock walking into the hotel lobby?

4. Neither room service, house cleaning, surveillance footage, nor security saw him bring hundreds of pounds of guns and ammo into the room.

Original reports noted that Paddock had somewhere around ten firearms in his hotel room after it was breached by SWAT. However, reports as of Tuesday morning now say authorities recovered a whopping 23 weapons.

Police noted that only one of these weapons was a handgun, meaning that 22 of them were long-form rifles or shotguns.

Just to put the sheer logistics of bringing in these guns into perspective, here is an image of 23 rifles.

Image
This image shows just the guns, not the hundreds of rounds of ammo to fill them.

He had brought “in excess of 10” suitcases to the suite over several days, Sheriff Joe Lombardo said. Yet no one thought this to be suspicious?

Housekeepers said they “saw no signs of anything” suspicious, Nevada Rep. Dina Titus told CNN.

Paddock had a “pretty well hidden” arsenal, she said.

Authorities believe Paddock brought the weapons into the hotel by himself but did not provide specifics.

5. If Paddock acted alone, who was this mystery woman who warned everyone they were going to die 45 minutes before the shooting?

Caught on video after the shooting was an eyewitness report given to a local NBC affiliate in which a woman was described to have warned of the attack. The eyewitness claims to have seen a woman push her way to the first row of the concert roughly 45 minutes before the shooting began and levy threats indicating that everyone would soon be dead.

“So there was a lady who pushed her way forward into the first row and she started messing with another lady. She told us we were all going to die tonight – it was about forty-five minutes before the shots were fired,” the witness states.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn6NV4LpJ14

https://twitter.com/ZeroPointNow/status ... 0758201345

While all these questions and inconsistencies could soon be answered or laid to rest by authorities, no mainstream media outlets are asking them.


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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:32 pm

JackRiddler wrote:General PS - The six minute version of E. Paddock and the quotes chosen as summary by chump are both bullshit lite versions that just give the emotional cues without the details.


That short interview with Eric Paddock is a separate interview conducted the previous day. It is not hard to work out: He is wearing a dark sweatshirt in the first and a light open-necked shirt in the second. Please don't conflate the two interviews.

JackRiddler wrote:The full version makes it abundantly clear that he sees how his brother would have done all this in the detail. e.g., of course he'd have had a tripod, of course he'd do this or that, of course he'd have overkill, because he was a thorough worker, etc. Eric's confounded by the decision, not the manner in which it was executed which he sees as fully in character.


It makes no such thing "abundantly clear"! Jesus, Jack, you are composing trash psycho-fiction here in the vein of the worst tabloids.

Giving a unique and CHILLING INSIGHT into THE MIND OF VEGAS KILLER STEPHEN PADDOCK, the monster's brother Eric CONFIRMED that Paddock was an obsessive perfectionist who would have planned his horror rampage THOROUGHLY to the last detail -- and then carried it out with ICY EFFICIENCY.

"Fully in character"

Interviewed by journalists outside his plush bungalow in Orange County, California, father-of-four Eric Paddock says he can imagine PRECISELY how control-freak Stephen would have gone about preparing and executing his EVIL deed. He says it was done in a CHILLINGLY COLDBLOODED manner ENTIRELY TYPICAL of his arrogant older brother, in whose shadow Eric had stood for DECADES. ...


Nope. What we see, rather, is a distraught, recently-bereaved man -- flustered, sleepless, and somewhat manic, no doubt after hours of police interrogation and a thousand phonecalls -- struggling hard to imagine his brother commiting such a terrible crime at all, confirming that Stephen was a competent and well-organised character (as opposed to, say, a psychotic), and struggling hardest of all not to come across as a "conspiracy theorist", i.e., as a doubter of his dead brother's guilt. Eric Paddock knows he is speaking to the teevee cameras, he knows what year it is, and he also knows what country he's living in.

He is struggling to please.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:02 pm

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:45 pm wrote:Ms Miller said the man sprinted through her hotel after coming off an escalator from the Mandalay Bay.

“The man that they [security] were chasing was wearing a security jacket like them,” she said.


http://www.news.com.au / http://www.couriermail.com.au


Another RFK echo. First we have the Girl in the Polka-Dot Dress play Cassandra at the concert, now there's a security guard who may have been the actual trigger man.

Thinking about Eric Paddock asking the media at the second interview, "Have any of you ever fired an automatic weapon?" He then went into a full verbal and physical description of how "it's not fun" to actually do it; the recoil tears into your shoulder and it is physically exhausting. Natural News gives more info on just how exhausting:

Even highly trained Navy Seals would have a difficult time running a full auto weapon for 10 minutes straight. Such weapon systems are brutal on the operator. They require tremendous strength, stamina and expert troubleshooting to keep running. Full-auto weapons overheat and jam. They demand incredible strength to keep aimed on target. They require expert reloading and weapons clearing in the case of jams, and the hotel room would have been so full of smoke and powder residue that it would be almost impossible to keep breathing from that enclosed space.

Far from what the firearms-illiterate media claims, these are not systems that any Joe off the street can just pick up and use to effortlessly mow down 500 people. Running these systems requires extensive training, experience and stamina. It is physically impossible for a guy like Stephen Paddock to operate such a system in the sustained, effective manner that we witnessed, especially when shooting from an elevated position which throws off all the ranging of the weapon system.

Far from being a Navy Seal, Stephen Paddock is a retired accountant senior citizen with a gambling problem and a flabby physique. The only way he could have carried out this shooting is if he were transformed into a human superweapon through a magic wand. I’m calling this “Mission IMPOSSIBLE” because of the physical impossibility of a retired, untrained senior citizen pulling this off.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Brentos » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:06 pm

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:32 pm wrote:

Nope. What we see, rather, is a distraught, recently-bereaved man -- flustered, sleepless, and somewhat manic, no doubt after hours of police interrogation and a thousand phonecalls -- struggling hard to imagine his brother commiting such a terrible crime at all, confirming that Stephen was a competent and well-organised character (as opposed to, say, a psychotic), and struggling hardest of all not to come across as a "conspiracy theorist", i.e., as a doubter of his dead brother's guilt. Eric Paddock knows he is speaking to the teevee cameras, he knows what year it is, and he also knows what country he's living in.


Finally watched the video, yeah he is clearly in shock as well and a personification of "WTF". Saying that, there is obviously a lot that his brother may not know. But I dont see any inferences beyond that as to how capable his brother is.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:11 pm

According to one video further down the page someone linked to for another video a few pages back, an LVPD spokesperson, a woman, related (I believe) that the security guard who was wounded was shot when he and LV officers approached the door. He was the hotel employee sent with a passkey to open the door. All that took place within minutes of the commencement of fire and she stated that it was procedure to then stand down and call in swat. Continuing, she stated it took swat 72 minutes to respond, blow the door and enter, finding Paddock dead from a gunshot.

I found that shockingly long for a swat response time.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Rory » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:56 pm

There's something Michael Meiring about all this
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:02 pm

Iamwhomiam » 05 Oct 2017 21:11 wrote:According to one video further down the page someone linked to for another video a few pages back, an LVPD spokesperson, a woman, related (I believe) that the security guard who was wounded was shot when he and LV officers approached the door. He was the hotel employee sent with a passkey to open the door. All that took place within minutes of the commencement of fire and she stated that it was procedure to then stand down and call in swat. Continuing, she stated it took swat 72 minutes to respond, blow the door and enter, finding Paddock dead from a gunshot.

I found that shockingly long for a swat response time.


10:05 first shots fired
10:12 Police are already one floor below the active shooter.
10:13 Police on scanner localize the shooting to the upper floors of Mandalay Bay
10:15 Paddock stops shooting out the window.
10:15-10:18 Paddock supposedly shoots a lonely minority security guard while police cower one floor below.*
10:16 first twitter post about the shootings
10:17 Two LVPD officers finally make it up one flight to the correct floor. They are soon joined by 8 more officers and they start evacuating guests.
10:25 Scanners record multiple LVPD officers gathered outside of Paddock's hotel room door killing time.
10:25 Police issue alert to taxi drivers: "Drivers avoid LV Blvd and Tropicana. Active shooting from Mandalay Bay. Possible 3 shooters."
10:30 LVPD officers start herding oeople into the lobby of Mandalay Bay.
10:38 LVPD twitter warns people to stay out of the Mandalay Bay area.
10:40 Police told not to enter the shooter's room because he was "contained" and had stopped firing out of the window.
11:20 SWAT team breaks down Paddock's door to find him dead.

* https://www.thedailybeast.com/unarmed-s ... en-paddock

When Campos first arrived on the 32nd floor, he did so by elevator because Paddock had somehow blocked stairwell doors leading to the hallway outside of his room, Hickey said. The door to the room itself was also barricaded, Campos found when he tried to open it, just before the bullets came through the door. ...

Campos, wounded, stayed on the floor and even went door-to-door, clearing rooms with police, Lombardo said, until he was ordered to leave because he was wounded.

About an hour after Paddock quit firing, a SWAT team gained entry to the suite by blowing the doors off with explosives. Paddock was found dead inside from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Campos was struck in the right leg where the bullet remains, Hickey said, and will be removed by surgery at a later date. Campos was well enough to try to leave the hospital not long after the shooting, but was kept there by staff and police who wanted to monitor his injury and interview him about his ordeal.

On any given shift, 17 of 200 officers at the hotel complex are armed, Hickey said. Campos likely just had a nightstick, useless against a man who had a military-grade arsenal at his disposal.


* http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/us/securi ... index.html

Campos had been in the building, patrolling the halls and was sent to the area of commotion. When he got to the shooter's floor, Campos found the stairwells had been barricaded and had to use the elevator, Hickey said he was told by local union officials.

When Campos approached Paddock's suite, the shooter "fired through the door, striking Mr. Campos in the upper right thigh," said Hickey who is president of the International Union, Security, Police and Fire Professionals of America.

He faced well over 200 rounds, said Sheriff Joseph Lombardo of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police on Wednesday. "It's amazing that that security guard didn't sustain additional injury."


Wow. It doesn't sound like those security cameras were of much help to Paddock if he couldn't even take out one guy with over 200 rounds.

After being shot, Campos spoke with police officers at 10:18 p.m., giving them the shooter's exact room and key pass.

"His bravery was amazing because he remained with our officers, providing them the key pass to access the door and continued to help them clear rooms until our officers demanded he seek medical attention," said Lombardo.

Clark County Undersheriff Kevin McMahill also commended the security guard as "very heroic."

When asked why he thought Paddock stopped shooting at concertgoers, McMahill said Tuesday he believed Paddock's attention had been diverted as he fired at the security guard.


But, of course, it would been asking far too much to have 8 police officers attempt to divert the shooter's attention in the same manner!
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Here is what was supposed to happen: http://www.tactical-life.com/military-a ... 15-hostage

S.W.A.T. These letters set the mind churning, conjuring images of black-clad supermen bristling with weapons and equipment leaping through windows and blowing doors off hinges, then performing a delicate yet violent ballet as they overwhelm their objective with the goal of saving the innocent and punishing the guilty. Not too long ago, I spent a week in an intermediate SWAT course with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department (LVMPD), and I can tell you firsthand that, with the exception of the black uniforms, when you imagine SWAT, these are the guys you see in your mind’s eye. ...

With every kind of landscape and terrain—from mountaintops to rivers, deserts, cities, the Hoover Dam and countless other environments—the 40 men of the LVMPD’s “Zebra Unit,” or simply “Z,” are indeed those supermen, and once a year they invite tactical officers from around the country to come learn how they do it. In 2013, I was lucky enough to be able to attend and see Zebra Unit in action.

This article is not just a chance to sum up the five days of exceptional training Zebra provided, but here are some of the topics covered by the over 250 years of SWAT experience that the instructors share: high-risk search warrant service, active-shooter responses, hostage rescues, vehicle assaults (both cars and buses), downed-officer rescues, containment, explosive breaching, and slow and methodical team tactics. This is a lot of information to get downrange in five days, but the caliber of Zebra’s instructing officers allowed us to drink heartily from this fire hose of knowledge.

As I said, this was not a basic SWAT course. Everyone who attended serves as a tactical officer, and as such we were expected to arrive with the required skills. Zebra’s mission during the week was to tell, show, teach and assist us in learning how they do it, because they do it right, and anything we could take back to our home agencies would only help us do our jobs better and safer.

The four- and five-man active-shooter response tactics I saw during the training are the best I have seen, period. Patrol officers are taught and updated so that they can either form their own cells as the first responders or they can be folded in with SWAT members as they arrive in a cohesive and effective tool to mitigate the horror that is today’s active-shooter scenario.

[People from all over the world come to Vegas to play, to act in ways they never would at home, and to explore the world of excess. There is another contingent that comes here—those who put their lives on the line so that others may live. Vegas is a Mecca of tactics and thought-provoking innovation in this constantly evolving world. Operators from every organization come to share thoughts, ideas and capabilities with Vegas Metro SWAT, and there is good reason. In the community of non-federal law enforcement, the LVMPD’s Zebra Unit is without a doubt Tier One. Their absolute commitment to excellence is unparalleled; men train and wait years for a coveted spot on the team.
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