Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:55 pm

A propos, IAWIA, are the windows in that hotel normally openable by guests? I'm presuming not, "for safety reasons", and especially to prevent suicides (not uncommon in Vegas, I believe). But it would be worth finding out for sure.

Re: motive: I'm guessing we will be told the dead culprit had suddenly incurred huge gambling debts, after decades of truly incredible good luck with the slot machines.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:25 am

MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:55 pm wrote:A propos, IAWIA, are the windows in that hotel normally openable by guests? I'm presuming not, "for safety reasons", and especially to prevent suicides (not uncommon in Vegas, I believe). But it would be worth finding out for sure.

Re: motive: I'm guessing we will be told the dead culprit had suddenly incurred huge gambling debts, after decades of truly incredible good luck with the slot machines.


The reason I questioned about the room or rooms on last page is because of the picture at the NYT link that show the two broken windows, one on each side of the corner of the building. The broken panels are nine plus panels apart or about 50 feet or more. That is why I question whether there was more than one room and, if one or adjacent rooms or suites, they would be quite large.

Very doubtful if the rooms could be opened by guests for the reasons already mentioned.

As Mac says, The obvious motive for public consumption anyway is that the angry loner had lost all his money and took out his frustration on the resort by a massacre of other casino customers. The activity took planning and competence.

I will be interested to learn more about his female life companion. Maybe part of his anger is that she left him?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby SonicG » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:27 am

Certainly, if this was some special-ops related thing, the window on the 4th floor could be immediately replaced. Want to search for more details about what people on the same or nearby floors heard and did. Same would hold true for the fourth floor. Unless: silencers. but they don't work for automatics do they?

As far as motive? My money is on "brain tumor"...
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby SonicG » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:33 am

Image

There doesn't seem to be a layout map, but this and other suites are quite large:
https://www.mandalaybay.com/en/hotel/pa ... queen.html
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:43 am

SonicG » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:33 pm wrote:Image

There doesn't seem to be a layout map, but this and other suites are quite large:
https://www.mandalaybay.com/en/hotel/pa ... queen.html


Thank you Sonic, that is photo I cited. That would be a large suite in that the depth would be nearly 1/2 the width of the building and just as width the other direction. Perhaps two adjacent suites?

I hope there is lots of security video being analyzed and whatever is ultimately released to public offers clarity more than confusion.

Edit to add: The suite from the hotel link is 1450 sq. ft.; that is pretty large, essentially a two BR, two bath house.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:47 am

PufPuf93 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:25 pm wrote:
...

As Mac says, The obvious motive for public consumption anyway is that the angry loner had lost all his money and took out his frustration on the resort by a massacre of other casino customers. The activity took planning and competence.


Except that he didn't massacre any casino customers; instead, he massacred country music fans at random in that open-air venue outside his hotel. So revenge against the casino won't work as a motive.

Maybe they'll trot out a brain tumour, or an estranged wife, or a Russian Plot.

Seriously, I think the days are now gone when people would expect to hear a plausible motive for any of this shit, or even demand to be given one. Post 9/11, post-reality, anything goes.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby LolaB » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:53 am

Here is this voice, as far as the security video angle is concerned. It's copied from my facebook feed:

My good friend just posted this:
“ Back in 2004 - 2008 I worked security on the grounds, and in the control room, conducting security and surveillance at the only 5 star 5 diamond hotel and casino in the world - WYNN LAS VEGAS under The Federal Bureau of Investigation's former chief point man in the campaign against terrorism Larry Mefford. He was the head of the bureau's counterterrorism and counterintelligence operation. So, it's safe to say, you know we were trained properly in all the fields of surveillance. While I worked there, we had access to 100's of cameras that covered every corner of the property, there was literally an eye in the sky that would capture your every move... and these cameras had a range and focus that was simply unbelievable and impressive at that.
So here's my point...
Until video is released of Stephen Paddock walking into the Mandalay Bay Hotel with "the many bags filled with assault rifles and ammunition" because you know there should be many bags or cases carrying all that shit... after seeing his "so called room".... I call BULLSHIT! Show him carrying it in the lobby, the hotel, and the elevator!!! If you can't, then again, I call bullshit and this is yet another false flag operation!!!
Over 20 something rifles and all that ammo... and you're going to tell me you have no video of him bringing any of it in? Do they really think, those of us that understand the security world wouldn't be able to figure this out?
I have 4 years experience in this field... you cannot pull the wool over my eyes, I know how these cameras cover EVERYTHING!!!!
That's my take... and I smell something foul and it's making me sick to my stomach!
I'm sorry guys... but we all need to start waking up immediately. This stinks.... big time!!!”
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:31 am

MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:47 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:25 pm wrote:
...

As Mac says, The obvious motive for public consumption anyway is that the angry loner had lost all his money and took out his frustration on the resort by a massacre of other casino customers. The activity took planning and competence.


Except that he didn't massacre any casino customers; instead, he massacred country music fans at random in that open-air venue outside his hotel. So revenge against the casino won't work as a motive.

Maybe they'll trot out a brain tumour, or an estranged wife, or a Russian Plot.

Seriously, I think the days are now gone when people would expect to hear a plausible motive for any of this shit, or even demand to be given one. Post 9/11, post-reality, anything goes.


Note I typed "obvious motive for public consumption".

Could be revenge against casinos or Las Vegas culture in general as the music venue and attendance would not occur save for the gaming industry.

I am open to just about any back story. Paddock proved himself to be quite competent. Also open to more than one shooter.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby SonicG » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:35 am

Not really...it is quite possible he was there for a few days before and would bring them up one bag at a time over the three days of the do not disturb sign - which seems like a more likely suspicion-raiser, but I imagine they let you do what you want when you get a suite and gamble heavily.
Furthermore, he says himself, videos have not been release yet, so remains to be seen...
Interesting though is that Paddock set up his own surveillance cams without being seen (?)...
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Freitag » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:36 am

SonicG » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:51 pm wrote:Yeah, that is the pronunciation I meant. So odd...Does he not realize even what the fuck Antifa means??


Sounds like normal human behavior though. Whatever rolls off the tongue easiest. A similar example would be people pronouncing MILAB (Military Abduction) as "my-lab" instead of "mill-ab".
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:39 am

Hi Lola!

Playing devil's advocate here: If an elderly, wealthy, and familiar * guest was checking into a luxury suite with some heavy baggage, the hotel staff wouldn't necessarily see anything suspicious in that, especially if he had checked in for a long stay. (Had he? This too would be worth knowing.) And if the guns were concealed in several trunks or solid cases, then the weight itself wouldn't necessarily attract attention. Maybe they just presumed it was something harmless and perfectly respectable, such as 40 gold bars, or 100 kilos of cocaine, Or 200 bottles of booze, like Nicholas Cage in that daft movie. If a rich guest had booked a luxury suite in a Vegas hotel for a month, any porter who asked him to reveal the contents of his luggage might well have been risking his job.

But yes: Video footage would certainly show whether he checked in with any heavy luggage at all, which is why that footage would be well worth seeing, which is why we'll almost certainly never see it.

* Was he actually a frequent guest in that particular hotel?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby SonicG » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:50 am

Have you looked at his attempted lawsuit against the Cosmopolitan Hotel in 2011??

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-v ... 11-n807016
Kravitz met Paddock when he testified in a deposition for the lawsuit. Paddock enjoyed a special high-roller status with perks at at least one Vegas casino, but Kravitz described the man he met as "unkempt," "slovenly and careless" and "bizarre."

When Paddock fell at the hotel, said Kravitz, he "was wearing crappy flip-flops with a beverage in a bag in his hand."

"You wonder what a guy like this is doing at the Cosmo."


Cosmo was owned by Deutsche Bank then and in May 2014, the Cosmopolitan was sold by to Blackstone Group for $1.73 billion.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:32 am

^^Hadn't seen that, no. From the same article:

According to his brother Eric, Paddock was a millionaire, with real estate holdings in California. Caesar's Entertainment had granted him a "Seven Stars" designation as a frequent gambler "with status" at its casino properties, according to a source familiar with the investigation. Seven Stars is the highest level for high rollers, and is by invitation only.


What on earth was going on there? Those CCTV clips are from 2011. No one gambles so intensely for so long and still stays rich. Where was this guy's endless stream of liquidity coming from? He looks like a scarecrow. Who was bankrolling his amazingly profligate lifestyle? See the points made upthread (by other posters) about his mysteriously thin but very spooky-looking employment-history.

according to a source familiar with the investigation.


Right. As ever in these "active investigations" of Terror attacks, strategic anonymous leaks to the media are frequent, and they always go unpunished. A yarn is being spun.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:02 am

Was feeling almost a mild panic attack watching that tax driver who was livestreaming their taxi directly under the fire coming from mandalay bay where every car and person is acting normal, felt very twilight zone. 8 minutes in and it seems like noone around mandalay tower or the hotel lobby drop off point notices but you hear loud automatic gunfire. but when people start running down the strip in mass, and that frantic wounded couple get in the car...it was like watching a found footage horror movie thriller.

The vomit inducing right wing Trumpist/conspiracy crowd immediately began spewing "its a Muslim, gotta be. gotta kick em all out"(and yes, theres been an awful lot of jihadist inspired/ISIS style terror events from Canada to Europe this past week) and the "who cares, its all white country music fans, probably republicans. fuck em" from some on the left(including the vice president of CBS)

Beyond the just ugliness and sickening void of the photos, video and descriptions by survivors....its also gross how both the left and right HAVE TO scramble to pin it on someone. "its an antifa commie leftist!" "its a muslim!" "its a neo nazi! or tea party guy!"

Does it scare people if its absolutely nothing easily defineable in 2017? Remember when a crazy white guy could just shoot up a place and people would accept the guy was crazy? San Diego Mcdonalds...1966 Texas...the 1991 Texas church shooting, the Aurora Batman shooting? In the post Trump 2016 election era, every sick event has to fit in a catchers mit of CURRENT political football determination.

But what if this is something new? Of course the Jihad terror attacks, the far right/neo nazi terror events, etc will keep happening to push us toward an inevitable madness...but what if Vegas represents something weird and undefinable? Mass terrorism that doesnt fit anything....but may, down the line if one looks at the signs right

Again, just the weirdness of OJ Simpson being released earlier that day, and being literally a mile or so from Mandalay Bay with the media already there covering it(and OJ being the single definining, beyond 9/11 coverage event of the 1990s)

But on a sick, gross level...watching this video, it brings home how street to street, window to window fighting in the Syrian civil war very well could come to America. But the war could be weirder and more undefined than imaginable(im thinking of the recent zombie movie "Cell" where everyone in society turns into violent zombies from a cell phone signal)

God this is so surreal. Is this a preview?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:08 am

Not to sound like an anti gun alarmist, but geezus....

theres so many mass shootings in America on a near daily basis, that im guessing most are down the rabbit hole. Anyone remember the navy guy who claimed he had secret magneted government rays directing him?
Or the guy who killed 5 in a big Florida airport last year claiming CIA convinced him to kill for ISIS? Or the church shooting right here in America a few days ago. Or the Montreal Mosque shooting by a racist in Canada recently.

Back in the day you had a few post office shootings, Mcdonalds, Stockton school, 1966 tower and a few others. By 1991 you started getting office, church and other shootings. By the late 90s mass school shootings were a weekly horror show. In the late 2000s it became malls and colleges, then movie theaters in the 2010s. 26 people, mostly little toddlers, killed by some alien looking nut kid a few months after a kid mass murdered people in a movie theater. Now its super bowl level mass horror in Vegas. Wheres this shit all going?
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