How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

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How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:55 pm

How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

By removing most Americans from the combat arena, we gained the ability to wage war forever, and damn the consequences.
By Tom Engelhardt | October 17, 2017


It took 14 years, but now we have an answer.

It was March 2003, the invasion of Iraq was underway, and Maj. Gen. David Petraeus was in command of the 101st Airborne Division heading for the Iraqi capital, Baghdad. Rick Atkinson, Washington Post journalist and military historian, was accompanying him. Six days into a lightning campaign, his division suddenly found itself stopped 30 miles southwest of the city of Najaf by terrible weather, including a blinding dust storm and the unexpectedly “fanatical” attacks of Iraqi irregulars. At that moment, Atkinson reported, "[Petraeus] hooked his thumbs into his flak vest and adjusted the weight on his shoulders. “Tell me how this ends,” he said. “Eight years and eight divisions?” The allusion was to advice supposedly given the White House in the early 1950s by a senior Army strategist upon being asked what it would take to prop up French forces in South Vietnam. Petraeus’ grin suggested the comment was more droll quip than historical assertion."

Certainly, Petraeus knew his history when it came to American interventions in distant lands. He had entered West Point just as the American war in Vietnam was beginning to wind down and did his doctoral dissertation at Princeton in 1987 on that conflict (“The American Military and the Lessons of Vietnam: A Study of Military Influence and the Use of Force in the Post-Vietnam Era”). In it, he wrote, "Vietnam cost the military dearly. It left America’s military leaders confounded, dismayed and discouraged. Even worse, it devastated the armed forces, robbing them of dignity, money and qualified people for a decade… Vietnam was an extremely painful reminder that when it comes to intervention, time and patience are not American virtues in abundant supply."

So no wonder he was well acquainted with that 1954 exchange between President Dwight D. Eisenhower and former Korean War commander Gen. Matthew Ridgeway about the French war in Vietnam. Perhaps, the “droll quip” aspect of his comment lay in his knowledge of just how badly Ridgeway underestimated both the years and the troop numbers that the American version of that war would eat up before it, too, ended in disaster and in a military as riddled with protest and as close to collapse as was imaginable for an American force of our era.

In his thesis, Petraeus called for the military high command to be granted a far freer hand in whatever interventions the future held. In that sense, in 1987, he was already mainlining into a 21st-century world in which the US military continues to get everything it wants (and more) as it fights its wars without having to deal with either an obstreperous citizen army or too many politicians trying to impose their will on its actions.
More at:

http://billmoyers.com/story/us-paved-wa ... ional-war/

Edit to fix link to article.
Last edited by PufPuf93 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:33 am

and it helps when trump doesn't even acknowledge troops have been killed until he is forced to ...trying to cover up what the fuck we are doing in Niger

he was given a statement by staff but refused to release it

2 weeks and not a word about their deaths and then tries to change the subject about WHY Niger
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:43 am

Good article from Engelhardt as always that I've seen. Basic gist, ability to wage war in unlimited theaters goes back to Nixon decision to get rid of the draft - though it also relies on a technological revolution in surveillance, data, and programmed firepower, I'd add, and on spending "good superpower" credibility capital to win over allies on the ground. The latter is bound to eventually reach a point of exhaustion. The ongoing sell-out of the Kurdish forces is added to all the ones that preceded it. All this can end tomorrow or go on for decades, it's unpredictable.

Petraeus' knowing joke foreseeing what would come in Iraq from the start marks him as a special breed of criminal.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby PufPuf93 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:23 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:33 am wrote:and it helps when trump doesn't even acknowledge troops have been killed until he is forced to ...trying to cover up what the fuck we are doing in Niger

he was given a statement by staff but refused to release it

2 weeks and not a word about their deaths and then tries to change the subject about WHY Niger


Trump is a vile man that is unfit to be POTUS but this article is far more reaching than Trump. Trump could be described as a symptom, result, or (my opinion) useful tool for the situation that is the USA military. Some say the very military personalities (Generals Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster) are the "adults" in the current administration to keep Trump in check. I find this idea makes Trump all the more dreadful.

You are better SLAD than to make this issue about Trump.

To quote Engelhardt's conclusion, "So as American air power in places like Yemen, Somalia and Afghanistan is ramped up yet again, as the latest mini-surge of troops arrives in Afghanistan, as Niger enters the war, it’s time to put Gens. David Petraeus, James Mattis, H.R. McMaster and John Kelly in context. It’s time to call them what they truly are: Nixon’s children."
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:24 am

as Niger enters the war


I was commenting on Niger ...I'm sorry just who is trying to hide the fact that our military is in Niger?

mini-surge of troops
?

Let's just make it about FEAR then

An overwhelming majority of Americans — 76 percent — are worried that the United States will become engaged in a major war in the next four years

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ow-n783801
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby PufPuf93 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:48 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:24 am wrote:Let's just make it about FEAR then

An overwhelming majority of Americans — 76 percent — are worried that the United States will become engaged in a major war in the next four years

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... ow-n783801


I too worry about major war, have worried about war and rumors of war nearly my entire adult life. Like many others I was politicized by the Vietnam War, was eligible for that draft (got a high lottery so did not use the planned non-religious CO), and have remained anti-war more than any other orientation ever since, albeit a steadt Democratic voter in the elections.

GWB took us to war in Iraq in an aggression based upon lies and as part of a master plan to control Central Asia and the Middle East. HRC as SOS under POTUS Obama was instrumental in military actions in Libya and Syria and also supported violence backed coups in Ukraine and Honduras and expansion of Plan Colombia and AFRICOM. McCain and others have been "bomb" Iran proponents now for decades. The trade arrangements in the Far East have a military component. So Russia first in Georgia and then in Syria bit back and successfully bit back. China is actively militarizing the South China Sea.

To continue the theme of FEAR, Trump is such an ignorant fool that the prospect of nuclear war is real; Trump would go there for his own vain glory. But such a war, or any war, will only occur with cooperation and action of the key American Generals. It could be any politician now but Trump is particularly worrisome. Our financial and media sectors are not much more than support structure for a globally ubiquitous metastasized military.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:11 am

Our financial and media sectors are not much more than support structure for a globally ubiquitous metastasized military.


Just as Eisenhower warned against. Trump, iirc, has given our military leaders carte blanche to pursue war as they see fit. So the cooperation of many senior officers to disobey their superiors orders is questionable and imo, shouldn't be counted upon to prevent such an engagement. With a gun to your head, you might not be as cooperative as you've promised.

A Niger thread would be in order, slad. Also, Trump did tell one mother who lost her son in Niger, "He knew what he was signing up for." Such comforting words for a grieving mother to hear from her President after an action he irresponsible ordered resulted in her son's death.

As if those signing-up had any clue what they were in for, who never before had been so intimately been exposed to war in so many of its ugly aspects and lingering after-effects.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:14 am

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40726

I am sorry to PufPuf93 if I derailed this thread but the word Niger just set me off
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:17 am

^^^ Thanks. I hadn't scrolled down the GD page to see it prior to my earlier comment. My apologies and thanks.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby PufPuf93 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:37 am

seemslikeadream » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:14 am wrote:http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40726

I am sorry to PufPuf93 if I derailed this thread but the word Niger just set me off


No problem SLAD. Good idea to start a Niger thread. I have watched what I find online about AFRICOM for years.
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Re: How the US Paved the Way for ‘Generational’ War

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:43 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ry/383516/

Americans admire the military as they do no other institution. Through the past two decades, respect for the courts, the schools, the press, Congress, organized religion, Big Business, and virtually every other institution in modern life has plummeted. The one exception is the military. Confidence in the military shot up after 9/11 and has stayed very high. In a Gallup poll last summer, three-quarters of the public expressed “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of confidence in the military. About one-third had comparable confidence in the medical system, and only 7 percent in Congress.

...

And yet however much Americans “support” and “respect” their troops, they are not involved with them, and that disengagement inevitably leads to dangerous decisions the public barely notices. “My concern is this growing disconnect between the American people and our military,” retired Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under George W. Bush and Barack Obama (and whose mid-career academic stint was at Harvard Business School), told me recently. The military is “professional and capable,” he said, “but I would sacrifice some of that excellence and readiness to make sure that we stay close to the American people. Fewer and fewer people know anyone in the military. It’s become just too easy to go to war.”

Citizens notice when crime is going up, or school quality is going down, or the water is unsafe to drink, or when other public functions are not working as they should. Not enough citizens are made to notice when things go wrong, or right, with the military. The country thinks too rarely, and too highly, of the 1 percent under fire in our name.


I think that's a big part of the "generational" aspect - our Praetorian Class, not to mention .mil's evolution into a working class jobs program.

Also: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-war ... story.html

Multi-generational military families like the Graveses form the heart of the all-volunteer Army, which increasingly is drawing its ranks from the relatively small pool of Americans with historic family, cultural or geographic connections to military service.

While the U.S. waged a war in Vietnam 50 years ago with 2.7 million men conscripted from every segment of society, less than one-half of 1% of the U.S. population is in the armed services today — the lowest rate since World War II. America's recent wars are authorized by a U.S. Congress whose members have the lowest rate of military service in history, led by three successive commanders in chief who never served on active duty.

Surveys suggest that as many as 80% of those who serve come from a family in which a parent or sibling is also in the military. They often live in relative isolation — behind the gates of military installations such as Ft. Bragg or in the deeply military communities like Fayetteville, N.C., that surround them.

The segregation is so pronounced that it can be traced on a map: Some 49% of the 1.3 million active-duty service members in the U.S. are concentrated in just five states — California, Virginia, Texas, North Carolina and Georgia.
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