"Optimal way to go"

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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:08 pm

mentalgongfu2 wrote:As far as I know, I'm not facing an immediate death anymore than the rest of us are in the existential sense.


Absolutely, as 82 has discovered, and many others know, death is always lurking over our shoulders.

Blue wrote:ETA: and yeah, the reason for suicide should be much broader than terminal illness.


I agree, but that is where the greatest potential for abuse is.
One of the biggest mistakes I have made in my life was when I was a stupid young man, my very good friend told me about his suicidal ideations and I told him I supported his decision. Of course it wasn't that terse a conversation, but that's the tl/dr version.

So I am much more comfortable with this being available for only the terminally ill.
It is like a much more efficient version of what hospicare does right now.

And my own thinking feels quite awkward on the topic too.

I have dealt with a lot of deaths this year, both personally and professionally.

I need to defer to the choice of the person who is actively dying - and if this avenue was their choice - then I approve.

That is until they start selling advertising space on the pods.
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more pods

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:03 pm

WE’VE BEEN BURYING PEOPLE ALL WRONG

Could eco-friendly funerals save the planet?

Mary Pilon

DEC—27—2017 10:13AM EST

About 15 years ago, Cynthia Beal, a 30-year veteran of the natural-food movement and then-owner of the Red Barn Natural Grocery in Eugene, Oregon, sat down to work on a science fiction novel.

As she wrote, she began to contemplate life — and death — in the 2040s, a date that still felt far off in some Terminator time, but she worried was sneaking up on her and her fellow citizens.

“I was trying to solve the problem of what would happen to people’s bodies,” Beal, 60, told me recently, looking over the grounds of Oak Hill Cemetery in Eugene. “As I started to look to the future, I saw there was an issue that need to be addressed. And I thought, ‘My god, this is really interesting.’”

MACALLAN RARE CASK




Today, Beal is among those on a crusade to shift the way we die toward a process that could curb global warming. She's become fixated on the the patterns of a funeral industry that she believes are devastating for the planet. In 2003, Beal sold her grocery store to her brother, and a year later she founded the Natural Burial Company.

“I’ve always been a bit of a crusader in my own small way, trying to help things improve wherever I am,” Beal said, adding that the natural burial market had “all the hallmarks of action that appeal” to her. No one could tell her how to do it or how to make products, because it wasn’t really being done yet. In her first couple of years in the funeral business, Beal canvassed the globe trying to find manufacturers of eco-friendly pods — a kind of sarcophagus made out of recycled paper products — and caskets, while studying the way we die. That curiosity led her to the United Kingdom in 2007, which is something of a haven for natural burials. The nation has a damp and chilly climate that’s similar to Oregon’s, but a much larger population. She studied the U.K.’s burial laws and practices, and after conferring with British casket and ecopod makers, she brought the first commercial biodegradable coffins to Oregon, where she displayed them in a downtown Portland gallery open to the public in an attempt to de-creepify the casket selection process.

“WE HAVE THESE BOXES OF TOXIC WASTE THAT HAVE BEEN BURIED UNDERGROUND FOR YEARS.”
— Cynthia Beal, owner of Natural Burial Company, on traditional funeral practices.
Later, with the help of Dr. Jay Noller, head of Oregon State University’s Crop and Soil Science Department, she co-founded Oregon State University’s Sustainable Cemetery Studies Lab (and created the aptly-titled curriculum, Digging Deeper). In 2014, she purchased two cemeteries in town, including Oak Hill’s 11 tree-lined acres which contain almost 2,000 bodies dating back to the 1850s. One quilt of tombs rests under a canopy of oak trees, while newer burial plots make their way down the hill and offer a panorama of mountains, trees, and Fern Ridge Lake. Her goal was to make Oak Hill accessible to students studying the environmental implications of funeral practices of yore, and create a space for buried bodies to decompose, or recycle, naturally.

Forensic camp attendees examine samples at Oak Hill Cemetery.
Forensic camp attendees examine samples at Oak Hill Cemetery. Courtesy of C. A. Beal

With her long raven hair pulled back into a ponytail and in black jeans and tank top, Beal looked the part of hip undertaker as she strolled around the cemetery with a middle-aged couple. “Have you considered a wicker casket?” she asked. They shook their heads and said they hadn’t realized it was even an option.

It’s more difficult than one might think to get people to consider their burials the same way they think about purchasing other goods and services that “give back,” as they do when buying organic Newman’s Own Popcorn, even though funeral arrangements are a consumer choice that may continue to help the planet long after the buyer is gone. But Beal’s efforts on what may be the ultimate “back-to-land” movement aren’t isolated, and scientists at Oregon State are also pushing conversations about how post-mortem bodies affect the earth.

“This is a blind spot,” said Dr. Noller, who added that when it comes to even basic research, scientists studying dirt are behind their colleagues who study the more poetic aspects of environment, like the sky and water. “People see air pollution,” he said. “But soil, even though it’s obviously important, it can be difficult for our species to recognize that. People really think, ‘It’s dirt to me.’”

Until a few decades ago, the U.S. funeral industry favored large metal or wooden carriers for bodies, even though they don’t break down into the earth over time. (Critics also argue that those products are costly to consumers and put profits ahead of grieving and logic.) But when these industrial caskets became popular, the concern was less with practicality or environmental externalities and more with status. It wasn’t until the 1960s that many of those practices were scrutinized, notably in Jessica Mitford’s expose, “The American Way of Death,” which led to increased regulation of the funeral industry.

Beyond burial containers, the millions of Americans who die in hospitals with not-necessarily-earth-friendly chemicals in their bodies are also a concern (not to mention the chemicals that bodies are embalmed with). And burying bodies six feet underground may not be the best choice for topsoil either; Beal and others place caskets more in the 30-inch-below range. “We have these boxes of toxic waste that have been buried underground for years,” Beal said. “It’s more complicated than people think and we’re just starting to do the research.” By using Oak Hill and expanding science, Beal and Dr. Noller are hoping for more information about how those chemicals are impacting tree root systems, topsoil, vapor, circulation, and how alternatives like natural burial could help. That, in turn, could carry implications for urban planners, insurers, and communities, particularly as cemeteries that were once rural inch closer to developments and water sources. “It might be one of the reasons we’re seeing rivers with arsenic in them,” he said.

Rest Lawn Memorial Park in Oregon accepts natural burials anywhere on its grounds, keeping in tradition with the pioneers who were buried there more than a century ago.
Rest Lawn Memorial Park in Oregon accepts natural burials anywhere on its grounds, keeping in tradition with the pioneers who were buried there more than a century ago. Courtesy of C. A. Beal

Clients who make that connection are generally the first to come to natural burial. “At some point, people realize they’re not going to live forever,” said David Noble, Beal’s mentor and Executive Director of the non-profit River View Cemetery in Portland. “Maybe they were environmentally friendly as a liver and realize that when they’re going to die, being soaked with embalming fluid and thrown into a concrete vault in a metal casket isn’t coinciding with their life.”

When Noble started out in the cemetery industry in the late 1970s, he said River View did about 500 casket burials a year. Today, it does only 140 burials, 40 of which are natural, as tastes have shifted more toward cremation.

“It’s a different world today,” Noble said, “But we’re still very much a death-denying society.”

At Oak Hill, Beal’s middle-aged client couple politely nodded as she explained wills, ecopods, and the options to have wildflowers or oak trees planted alongside their remains. She joked with them about how her business plan uses “the homeowner association model” — she does regular grounds maintenance to make people sure that when they buy a spot, it will stay consistently tranquil. “But the homeowners are, well, dead.”

After her potential clients went on their way, Beal led me into a nearby showroom where she told me that she avoids being a pushy salesperson, particularly considering the taboos and emotions around death. The earliest adopters are not those closest to death, she said. “I get a lot of questions from the people who haven’t even thought [much] about it yet.”

This section of Oak Hill Cemetery is used exclusively for natural burials. The grass is mowed just twice a year in order to maintain the hill’s pastoral quality.
This section of Oak Hill Cemetery is used exclusively for natural burials. The grass is mowed just twice a year in order to maintain the hill’s pastoral quality. Courtesy of C. A. Beal

To her left, a large willow-woven casket rested in a corner and an array of acorn-shaped fiber urns were perched on a shelf. She adjusted some palm-sized clay jars, intended to hold a small handful of ashes. Her customers have spanned all walks of life, Beal told me. “Many of my natural-material coffins have been sold into the Midwest and Southern Bible Belt states. A number of her customers grew up in Europe, “where woven coffins were common.” She still displays at trade shows and plans to open a pop-up gallery in Eugene to display her own designs at some point in the near future. “It changes when people feel like they’re buying a work of art, or supporting an artist,” she said.

For Gary LeClair and his wife Janice Friend, a longtime interest in natural burials turned to action while doing routine estate planning. LeClair, 72, a retired physician in Springfield, Oregon, said he had some heart problems that got him thinking about how best to leave the couple's affairs in order for their three children. Throughout his life and career, he said he championed right to die legislation and environmental causes, and as the pair began to look at cemeteries and funeral homes, he was disappointed by the options. Neither he nor his wife want to be cremated, concurrent with her Jewish faith, but the idea of a durable, stainless steel, waterproof coffin for $15,000, he said, “seemed obscene to me, a total denial of the fact you’re going to be dead.”

“MY WIFE AND I ARE EMOTIONAL PEOPLE, BUT WE’RE LOGICAL. WE PLAN TO BE THE SAME WAY IN DEATH AS WE WERE IN LIFE.”
— Gary LeClair, who is opting for natural burial arrangements.
LeClair said that he has “been interested in ashes to ashes, dust to dust for years,” and in addition to purchasing two plots at Oak Hill, LeClair and his wife purchased two biodegradable coffins made from African wood. “They’re out in my shop now,” he said. “I’m sure people think that’s a little weird.” They also wanted a site where loved ones could visit, so the couple ordered a bench with a customized engraving. To avoid embalming, he hopes to have a service at home and be transported immediately to Oak Hill.

“The simplicity of natural burial appeals to me,” LeClair said. “I want to let the others focus on their grief without having to be distracted by, ‘Oh, Dad would have wanted the purple-lined casket or the plain wood box.’ It’s stupid. When you’re dead, you’re dead. Focus on the people who are left. My wife and I are emotional people, but we’re logical. We plan to be the same way in death as we were in life.”

Even with people like LeClair and Friend planning for natural burials, Beal has found the funeral business is slow to shift, in part because people make end of life decisions in advance. “How is an industry going to change its infrastructure when you have decades of pre-ordered cars?” she mused. “You have to fill the orders for the 1987 model now. It would be like all of us driving Pintos today.” Things are moving more slowly than she’d anticipated, but they are still moving.

In the next year, Beal wants to expand her offerings to allow friends and families to do services at home, like the one LeClair wants. She’s trying to get more cemeteries educated on natural burials, and expand her casket and urn offerings with U.S.-based artists. “I’m in this for the long haul,” she said. “I imagine in another ten years this movement will step into its own. Several years ago, the Baby Boomer generation hit sixty. We may be living longer, but we’re still going to stop living eventually. And there will be a lot more of us doing that than there ever has been. We will not see a return to full body burials using metal caskets in concrete vaults in the U.S.; I believe those days are over. My market is coming. It's as inevitable as death and taxes.”

And the science fiction novel, she said, “is still a work in progress.”
https://theoutline.com/post/2637/natural-burials-in-oregon
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby elfismiles » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:15 pm

Suicide machine draws crowds at Amsterdam funeral show
AFP Relax News•April 14, 2018

A controversial suicide pod that enables its occupant to kill themselves at a press of a button went on display at Amsterdam funeral show on Saturday.

Called the "Sarco", short for sarcophagus, the 3D-printed machine invented by Australian euthanasia activist Philip Nitschke and Dutch designer Alexander Bannink comes with a detachable coffin, mounted on a stand that contains a nitrogen canister.

"The person who wants to die presses the button and the capsule is filled with nitrogen. He or she will feel a bit dizzy but will then rapidly lose consciousness and die," said Nitschke, who has been dubbed "Dr Death" for his work to legalise euthanasia.

The "Sarco" is a device "to provide people with a death when they wish to die," Nitschke told AFP.

The inventors put a model of the device on display, together with a set of virtual reality glasses to give visitors a true-to-life experience of what it would be like to sit in the pod, before ultimately pressing the button.

Nitschke said he aimed to build the first fully-functioning pod before the end of the year.

After that, the design will be put online as an open-source document for people to download.

"That means that anybody who wants to build the machine can download the plans and 3D-print their own device," Nitschke said.

Asked about the controversy surrounding euthanasia and legal hurdles, Nitschke said: "In many countries suicide is not against the law, only assisting a person to commit suicide is."

"This is a situation where one person chooses to press a button... rather than for instance standing in front of a train."

"I believe it's a fundamental human right (to choose when to die). It's not just some medical privilege for the very sick. If you've got the precious gift of life, you should be able to give that gift away at the time of your choosing," Nitschke said.

Thousands of visitors flocked to the annual Amsterdam Funeral Expo at the city's famous Westerkerk, where all the latest trends in death, such as biodegradable coffins and a hot-rod funeral hearse were on display.

But the "Sarco" drew large crowds, many of them morbidly curious to try out the device's chair and virtual reality glasses.

"It was really an experience and a strange thing to see. But very pretty and calm. You see the moon, you see the sea. It's very calm," said Piet Verstraaten, 52, from the eastern Dutch city of Venray.

Others, however, were not impressed.

"Well, I think it's quite silly. It's stupid. I don't get it. I'm not interested in a real 'Sarco'. No," said 52-year-old Rob Bruntink.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/suicide-mach ... 26881.html

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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:54 pm

Oh shit man, I'm so glad you stuck around!

82_28 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:22 am wrote:I supposedly "bailed" on life in May. I had some "seizure" or something and was tossed on life support for four days (so they tell me) and spent most of the month in the hospital, months of physical therapy and still I really suck at getting around. Trust me, when you go, you go. I didn't know shit. Didn't feel anything at all. They could have just unplugged me or let me die where they found me. I would not have known shit.

Knowing that you don't feel anything at all would have been a "great help" when I actually was suicidal 7 or 8 years ago. So, I suppose, when I semi sorta woke up and bummed my family out by saying "well, I guess I know a fool proof way out of this misery" and to doctors "I guess, thanks for saving my life", contraptions like this give me hope. Knowing there is an easy way to make pain go away and not ever realizing what's happening comes super quick.

However, I did learn a thing or two about Medicaid. I was uninsured and yes, the ACA "Obamacare" took care of me while I was brain dead -- it did not cost me a dime and I never even saw a statement. At a private hospital and in home physical therapy no less. So, I have been very attuned to all of this right wing decimation of shit that could really affect people who really do need it. But that part is for another topic.
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby Cordelia » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:20 pm

Over the last 17 years.........

Suicide rates rise sharply across the United States, new report shows

by Amy Ellis Nutt June 7 at 1:14 P.M.

Suicide rates rose in all but one state between 1999 and 2016, with increases seen across age, gender, race and ethnicity lines, according to a report released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In more than half of all deaths in 27 states, the people had no known mental health condition when they ended their lives.

In North Dakota, the rate jumped more than 57 percent. In the most recent period studied (2014 to 2016), the rate was highest in Montana, at 29.2 per 100,000 residents, compared with the national average of 13.4 per 100,000.

Only Nevada recorded a decline — of 1 percent — for the overall period, although its rate remained higher than the national average.

Increasingly, suicide is being viewed not only as a mental health problem but a public health one. Nearly 45,000 suicides occurred in the United States in 2016 — more than twice the number of homicides — making it the 10th-leading cause of death. Among people ages 15 to 34, suicide is the second-leading cause of death.

Overall, the most common method used was firearms.

“The data are disturbing,” said Anne Schuchat, the CDC's principal deputy director. “The widespread nature of the increase, in every state but one, really suggests that this is a national problem hitting most communities.”

It is hitting many places especially hard. In half of the states, suicide among people age 10 and older increased more than 30 percent.

Image
Percent change in annual suicide rate* by state, from 1999-2001 to 2014-2016 (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

“At what point is it a crisis?” asked Nadine Kaslow, a past president of the American Psychological Association. “Suicide is a public health crisis when you look at the numbers, and they keep going up. It’s up everywhere. And we know that the rates are actually higher than what’s reported. But homicides still get more attention.”

High suicide numbers in the United States are not a new phenomenon. In 1999, then-Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report on the state of mental health in the country and called suicide “a significant public health problem.” The latest data at that time showed about 30,000 suicides a year.

Among the stark numbers in the CDC report was the one signaling a high number of suicides among people with no diagnosed mental health condition. In the 27 states that use the National Violent Death Reporting System, 54 percent of suicides fell into this category.

But Joshua Gordon, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, said that statistic must be viewed in context.

“When you do a psychological autopsy and go and look carefully at medical records and talk to family members of the victims,” he said, “90 percent will have evidence of a mental health condition.” That indicates a large portion weren’t diagnosed, “which suggests to me that they’re not getting the help they need,” he said.

MORE... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to- ... 4908b96ef1


Firearms esp, such a brutal, lonely, messy way to go imho.

(Future reports reflecting years of Trump's presidency could be "interesting".)
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby BenDhyan » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:25 pm

Processing the dead body so it is suitable for class plant food is a first step, one wonders if someone will then start looking at taking the processing to the 'soylent green' stage...

Washington state could become first state to allow human composting

Washington Published 22 hours ago

Washington state lawmakers on Friday passed a bill that would allow residents to take part in “natural organic reduction” of human remains, citing in part research that said careful composted human remains could be safe for use in a household garden, reports said.

The Seattle Times reported that Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee’s office on Friday said he did not review the final legislation. Inslee-- who is running for president-- has been active on Twitter since the state Senate and House of Representative passed bill 5001, but did not mention the bill in any posts. The bill reportedly passed easily and had bipartisan support.

The report pointed out that the measure has been several years in the making. There was a trial that involved six backers who agreed to organic reduction. The results were positive and “the soil smelled like soil and nothing else,” the report said.

Troy Hottle, a fellow at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, told the paper that the method is as “close to the natural process of decomposition [as] you’d assume a body would undergo before we had an industrialized society.”

An NBC News report last year said the procedure could cost $5,500.

“People from all over the state who wrote to me are very excited about the prospect of becoming a tree or having a different alternative for themselves,” Democratic state Sen. Jamie Pedersen told NBC.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-could-become-first-state-to-allow-human-composting#

Ben D
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:35 pm

Cordelia » 07 Jun 2018 22:20 wrote:Over the last 17 years.........

Suicide rates rise sharply across the United States, new report shows

by Amy Ellis Nutt June 7 at 1:14 P.M.

Suicide rates rose in all but one state between 1999 and 2016, with increases seen across age, gender, race and ethnicity lines, according to a report released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In more than half of all deaths in 27 states, the people had no known mental health condition when they ended their lives.

In North Dakota, the rate jumped more than 57 percent. In the most recent period studied (2014 to 2016), the rate was highest in Montana, at 29.2 per 100,000 residents, compared with the national average of 13.4 per 100,000.

Only Nevada recorded a decline — of 1 percent — for the overall period, although its rate remained higher than the national average.

Increasingly, suicide is being viewed not only as a mental health problem but a public health one. Nearly 45,000 suicides occurred in the United States in 2016 — more than twice the number of homicides — making it the 10th-leading cause of death. Among people ages 15 to 34, suicide is the second-leading cause of death.

Overall, the most common method used was firearms.

“The data are disturbing,” said Anne Schuchat, the CDC's principal deputy director. “The widespread nature of the increase, in every state but one, really suggests that this is a national problem hitting most communities.”

It is hitting many places especially hard. In half of the states, suicide among people age 10 and older increased more than 30 percent.

Image
Percent change in annual suicide rate* by state, from 1999-2001 to 2014-2016 (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

“At what point is it a crisis?” asked Nadine Kaslow, a past president of the American Psychological Association. “Suicide is a public health crisis when you look at the numbers, and they keep going up. It’s up everywhere. And we know that the rates are actually higher than what’s reported. But homicides still get more attention.”

High suicide numbers in the United States are not a new phenomenon. In 1999, then-Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report on the state of mental health in the country and called suicide “a significant public health problem.” The latest data at that time showed about 30,000 suicides a year.

Among the stark numbers in the CDC report was the one signaling a high number of suicides among people with no diagnosed mental health condition. In the 27 states that use the National Violent Death Reporting System, 54 percent of suicides fell into this category.

But Joshua Gordon, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, said that statistic must be viewed in context.

“When you do a psychological autopsy and go and look carefully at medical records and talk to family members of the victims,” he said, “90 percent will have evidence of a mental health condition.” That indicates a large portion weren’t diagnosed, “which suggests to me that they’re not getting the help they need,” he said.

MORE... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to- ... 4908b96ef1


Firearms esp, such a brutal, lonely, messy way to go imho.

(Future reports reflecting years of Trump's presidency could be "interesting".)


Paging Emile Durkheim. Dr. Durkheim, do you care to comment?
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:38 pm

[quote="BenDhyan » 23 Apr 2019 02:25"]Processing the dead body so it is suitable for class plant food is a first step, one wonders if someone will then start looking at taking the processing to the 'soylent green' stage...

[quote]Washington state could become first state to allow human composting

Washington Published 22 hours ago

Washington state lawmakers on Friday passed a bill that would allow residents to take part in “natural organic reduction” of human remains, citing in part research that said careful composted human remains could be safe for use in a household garden, reports said.

The Seattle Times reported that Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee’s office on Friday said he did not review the final legislation. Inslee-- who is running for president-- has been active on Twitter since the state Senate and House of Representative passed bill 5001, but did not mention the bill in any posts. The bill reportedly passed easily and had bipartisan support.

The report pointed out that the measure has been several years in the making. There was a trial that involved six backers who agreed to organic reduction. The results were positive and “the soil smelled like soil and nothing else,” the report said.

Troy Hottle, a fellow at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, told the paper that the method is as “close to the natural process of decomposition [as] you’d assume a body would undergo before we had an industrialized society.”

An NBC News report last year said the procedure could cost $5,500.

“People from all over the state who wrote to me are very excited about the prospect of becoming a tree or having a different alternative for themselves,” Democratic state Sen. Jamie Pedersen told NBC.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-state-could-become-first-state-to-allow-human-composting#

All I ever truly wanted to be was plant food for plant thought.
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Re: "Optimal way to go"

Postby Cordelia » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:29 pm

^^^
“People from all over the state who wrote to me are very excited about the prospect of becoming a tree or having a different alternative for themselves,”


I can't wait to see Hallmark sympathy cards for compassionate composting:

Image

(EPA had better keep Seattle's Bald Eagles away from reduction/decomp. sites. :wink )

Waste Materials and Disposal - The New York Times

Image
Bald Eagles, Symbol of America, Are Dumping Trash on the Seattle Suburbs.
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We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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