Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm

One of the problems in reading forum posts is that, especially over time, we form an image of the individuals posting - tied to their chosen name and avatar that is entirely imaginary – that takes on a life and characteristics of its own in our mind. The personality and politics and attitudes we attribute to that image take hold and form the character we envision when reading or interacting with them online.

It is a problem because it is inherently inaccurate, incomplete, distorted and built upon our assumptions, interpretations and suppositions in accordance with our reactions to the content of their posts.

I’ve already disclosed that I’ve worked in the film/television industry in various roles including as a writer (screenwriter) and as a performer, with performers and for performers. In that profession I learned about projecting/performing a role – an act of a scripted, fictional character designed to convince the audience to suspend disbelief and buy into its “reality”.

The same transformation applies to avatars and forum names. We start to believe that our imagined attributes assigned other posters are real, and we interface with them accordingly, basing our comments and convictions on that act and our assumptions about it.

We also get emotional in accord with (and in response to) the emotions and characteristics and personality and belief assumptions that we assign to it, forgetting it is a posted role created by the author as a projection – not real. It is an imagination of a character.

This is my usual longwinded explanation of why so many controversial critiques of others here are simply wrong, fundamentally false, based upon subjective miscues.

When you meet any one of us in real life you are going to be very surprised at the differences compared to your imagined persona.

Without going into even more mind-numbing detail, the assumptions expressed here about me and my alliteration and my motivations and the accompanying attitudes are mostly imaginary, based on projections both ways – on post scripts.

And that applies to everyone else posting and performing a role on this forum.

Our real personalities are, as you now know, so much better!
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we oughta get together

Postby IanEye » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:27 pm

peartreed » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:39 pm wrote:When you meet any one of us in real life you are going to be very surprised at the differences compared to your imagined persona.



IanEye » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:04 am wrote:
How does it feel?
How does it feel to have your mask portrayed in a way that is inaccurate and unfair?
Now imagine your (FourthBase) mask is stripped away and the statements are aimed at you directly, towards the name you carry from day to day.
The name your kids can Google.

There is a difference between saying you think "Mama Tried" is an awful song and saying Merle Haggard is a CIA stooge who writes these songs as part of a massive project to psychologically depress poor white people. (I just made that example up).

If you are comfortable coming to a board where Terry Gilliam gets categorized as a "dupe" then you shouldn't really be getting upset about getting your goalie mask a little dinged up.
Your fake name acts as a shield, and as long as you wear it you have a modicum of protection that others who get called all kinds of names here at RI do not.

Many people here get really uncomfortable when I point out that the personas we assume here are created as much by our inactions as our actions. I find it much easier to listen to a pointed critique from Sunny about a thing she finds offensive because she also offers many examples of things in her life that she adores.

When all anyone brings to the table is negativity, that is a choice. But part of the choice is the shape and dimensions your persona takes on.
Like a three dimensional object that passes through a two dimensional plane, we on the plane only see the part that is passing through. Whatever fullness of beauty that you possess, it is up to you to reveal it, or conceal it.

If one's concealment comes under the guise of, "i only have time to post about these topics that bother me, not the ones i enjoy", then one has chosen the mask of the curmudgeon, and one looks odd to then shy away from the perception.

Naked Lunch: “a frozen moment when everyone sees what is at the end of every fork.”




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kOfzA8V1-o

.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:00 am

I am no longer going to reply to personal attacks.....I have no control in stopping them and apparently neither do the authors of hate


So I will join with my good friends in peace and love ...there are more of us I know that for a fact ...we have such little time...we can not waste it on hate and hateful words. I don't think we even need to address this flaw again, we all know where everyone stands on the issue, there is nothing more to say



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s-KAvPbO8JY

How does it feel


We've been traveling this road
Together for so long
And it never occurred to me
That one day I'd be traveling alone



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0yviUMJYSM

How does it feel
How does it feel
You got to tell me
We've been traveling this road
Together for so long
And it never occurred to me
That one day I'd be traveling alone
How does it feel
How does it feel
You got to tell me



I am so grateful to have you as a friend IanEye .....so very grateful :lovehearts: :hug1:


thank you for reminding me

personas we assume here are created as much by our inactions as our actions


a true rasta man


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mtCFE-CkM8
Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
We have the chalice to lite up Jah fire
When i am nigh catch them vampire
i am nigh i go set them on fire

i-man troddin' down the unity lane
See a dreadlocks running down a rasta man
Swear that if he catch him he will kill him dead
The dreadlocks couldn't catch the rasta man

Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
We have the chalice to lite up Jah fire
When i am nigh catch them vampire
i am nigh i go set them on fire

A true rasta man
No go shop no bin shoppn'
A true rastaman
Does not gamble
A true rastaman
Does not play card pack
A true rastaman
Always humble

Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
We have the chalice to lite up Jah fire
When i am nigh catch them vampire
i am nigh i go set them on fire

A true rastaman
No firing they a gun
A true rastaman
No throwin they a bomb
A true rastaman
E no drink the drunk
A true rastaman
Does not gamble

Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
Obadiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampire
We have the chalice to lite up Jah fire
When i am nigh catch them vampire
i am nigh i go set them on fire

Babylon a man they sing
And they blame it on the rastaman
Babylon a man they sing
They blame it on the rastaman
Obahiah Obadiah
Jah Jah sent us here to catch vampiredvam



we will speak the secret collaborative language of birds .....i and i peartree and IanEye...i and i


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8AD_QNIX8U

The truth of the matter, yet to be spoken
In words on which everything, everything's riding
Now stay with me and learn the secret language of birds




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuLI6B7AU-M
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby minime » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Don't let the bastards get you down.

Haters gonna hate.

What can you do except be you?
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:33 pm

min I am glad to see you posting again I hope you will stay

I apologize for my surly behavior towards you in the past
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:11 pm

I just wasted my time copying a collection of MacCruiskeen quotes that illustrated continuing crude, cruel and cutting condemnations of people here in the most personally pejorative and petty way, designed to devastate, demean, dismiss and denigrate those who oppose his biases and bellicose braying. I then asked him to instead show us his best, his better side, instead – to demonstrate a caring heart.

Then I realized, given all his posted vitriol, he simply can’t overcome his own demons and fears of a cold war conflict in the border corridor he inhabits, so he vents his terror, ire, haunted thoughts and hatred upon all imagined opposition without a care of conscience or consequence of the impact of his hurling hurt. Belittling others has always been his bag. I’m not going to change that. I deleted my draft.

Then I read your post above, listened to the music, smiled and mellowed out – realizing you are right. Sometimes it isn’t worth the fight with the uptight blight in the night without a loving light.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:01 pm

peartreed » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:11 pm wrote:I just wasted my time copying a collection of MacCruiskeen quotes that illustrated continuing crude, cruel and cutting condemnations of people here in the most personally pejorative and petty way, designed to devastate, demean, dismiss and denigrate those who oppose his biases and bellicose braying. I then asked him to instead show us his best, his better side, instead – to demonstrate a caring heart.

Then I realized, given all his posted vitriol, he simply can’t overcome his own demons and fears of a cold war conflict in the border corridor he inhabits, so he vents his terror, ire, haunted thoughts and hatred upon all imagined opposition without a care of conscience or consequence of the impact of his hurling hurt. Belittling others has always been his bag. I’m not going to change that. I deleted my draft.


What a blatant and chronic liar you are. You are so full of shit you're a public health hazard. What you're revealing is, you tried very hard to dig up some dirt on me and eventually had to admit utter defeat. And you don't even had the minimal decency or honesty to admit that defeat without lying about me and painting yourself as a latterday St Francis, a hero of forbearance and renunciation and selfless brotherly love.

Then I read your post above, listened to the music, smiled and mellowed out – realizing you are right. Sometimes it isn’t worth the fight with the uptight blight in the night without a loving light.


What a ridiculously transparent phoney you are. An eternally recurring type. Shakespeare knew you, as did Chaucer.

Salinger had your number seven decades ago. You are Mr Ossenburger, the sanctimonious millionaire undertaker and "philanthropist":

Where I lived at Pencey, I lived in the Ossenburger Memorial Wing of the new dorms. It was only for juniors and seniors. I was a junior. My roommate was a senior. It was named after this guy Ossenburger that went to Pencey. He made a pot of dough in the undertaking business after he got out of Pencey. What he did, he started these undertaking parlors all over the country that you could get members of your family buried for about five bucks apiece. You should see old Ossenburger. He probably just shoves them in a sack and dumps them in the river. Anyway, he gave Pencey a pile of dough, and they named our wing after him. The first football game of the year, he came up to school in this big goddamn Cadillac, and we all had to stand up in the grandstand and give him a locomotive - that's a cheer. Then, the next morning, in chapel, he made a speech that lasted about ten hours. He started off with about fifty corny jokes, just to show us what a regular guy he was. Very big deal. Then he started telling us how he was never ashamed, when he was in some kind of trouble or something, to get right down on his knees and pray to God. He told us we should always pray to God - talk to Him and all - wherever we were. He told us we ought to think of Jesus as our buddy and all. He said he talked to Jesus all the time. Even when he was driving his car. That killed me. I can just see the big phoney bastard shifting into first gear and asking Jesus to send him a few more stiffs. The only good part of his speech was right in the middle of it. He was telling us all about what a swell guy he was, what a hotshot and all, then all of a sudden this guy sitting in the row in front of me, Edgar Marsalla, laid this terrific fart. It was a very crude thing to do, in chapel and all, but it was also quite amusing. Old Marsalla. He damn near blew the roof off.

http://www.nbu.bg/webs/amb/american/5/s ... tcher3.htm


Edgar Marsalla, an honest man and a gifted theatre critic. There aren''t many like him.

(On edit: emphasis added.)
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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yawn.

Postby IanEye » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:12 pm

IanEye » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:37 pm wrote:
For as long as the moderators let you, you will continue to act like a shitbag on this thread.
This truth is self evident.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erb_MOKaNNg

.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:18 pm

How brave you are, Ian. How honest. How articulate. Simply a master debater.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:19 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSWbQpg0u2g

There's an angel on a ribbon
Hanging from the armoire door
There's a Cupid with his feet crossed
On the bird cage by the door
There's a baby angel drummer
His eyes are open wide
And two more tiny cherubs
On the mantle side by side
Too many angels
Have seen me crying
Too many angels
Have heard you lying
There are photographs of children
All in their silver frames
On the window sills and tabletops
Lit by candle flames
And upon their angel faces
Life's expectations climb
Where the moment has preserved them
From the ravages of time
Too many angels
Have seen me crying
Too many angels
Have heard you lying
Bring the morning on
Voices sing of day
I want to step out in the morning sun
Through the flood of tears
I want this darkness gone
Your sweet face appears
These apparitions coming one by one
But there's no end in sight
Only the dead of night
And too many angels
Too many angels
Have seen me crying
Too many angels
Have heard you lying
Too many angels
Bring the morning on
Voices sing of day
I want to step out in the morning sun
Through the flood of tears
I want to greet the dawn
Cast away these fears
Forget about the things we could have done
Bring the morning on
Voices sing of day
I want to watch the children as they run
Through the broken years
I want this darkness gone
Your sweet face appears
These apparitions coming one by one
But there's no end in sight
Only the dead of night
And too many angels
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:25 pm

Post by MacCruiskeen » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:07 pm to peartreed:

"You are a tedious timewasting troll, a shitstirrer and a flame baiter."
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:27 pm

peartreed » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:25 pm wrote:Post by MacCruiskeen » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:07 pm to peartreed:

"You are a tedious timewasting troll, a shitstirrer and a flame baiter."



Jeff » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:00 pm wrote:
- Macruiskeen
- Nordic


It wasn't agent-baiting, so much as incorrigible, vulgar thuggery. I don't care on which side of an argument it's found, it's disruption. Their accounts are currently active, and probationary.

Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:40 pm

seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:27 pm wrote:

Jeff » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:00 pm wrote:
- Macruiskeen
- Nordic


It wasn't agent-baiting, so much as incorrigible, vulgar thuggery. I don't care on which side of an argument it's found, it's disruption. Their accounts are currently active, and probationary.



What's the purpose of resurrecting a posting from almost 9 years ago? It has no relevance, and it's a commentary by an absentee landlord who has zero bearing/input on the current state of this forum. His words -- despite the apparent near-worship by a few lingering members here -- are not gospel.

Let's test that:
May RI's Creator strike me down and ban me from this blessed forum forever if he feels otherwise! Praise be to Wells.*

I -- and many other members/lurkers here -- have valued the contributions of Mac and Nordic (who no longer participates here, for reasons that are evident to those that remain). Their spirited discourse is most welcome, for better or worse, and necessary in these times.

Perpetual civil discourse doesn't exist anywhere, least of all in a forum like this one, given the lightning rod topics in play. To expect such 'pleasant' banter is not only unrealistic, it hints at a level of privilege, of insulation from the harsh realities OUT THERE, and a remove from the consequences of the actions by those in power.

Yes, it's real, and sometimes, there will be less patience/increased potential for charged communications, particularly when the apparent objective of a few contributors here is to offer a deluge of mainstream regurgitation/amplification without critique or analysis, when critique and analysis are two of the core reasons quite a few of us continue to visit this forum (well, historically at least... not so much anymore, clearly).


*if my profile suddenly vanishes from the board, you'll know that I was proven wrong, and the Ur-moderator was displeased with my insolence.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Jerky » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:39 pm

So fucking LEAVE then, why don't you?
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:44 pm

this is a place where the dignity


and rights of all


people are respected


Jeff » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:38 am wrote:Welcome to the RI board.

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

...........

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.

.........

Thank you for your civil and thoughtful contributions, and your cooperation in helping to generate more light than heat.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btmqe27GfL8

Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Two of us have a little fuss,
Everything you draw your last,
Everything you run for your gun,
Everything you fling rock stone.
Hear this!
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Drop them !
A no ignorance he do it
A no brute force do it.
Your weapons can't do it
So hear this !
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Drop them
Put them away to stay.
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
I long to see you,
I long to reason with you.
I long to hold your hands in my hands.
Can't you see,
Can't you see?
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come,
Throw down your arms and come
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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