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so many in the conspiracy community have been weaponized to play a specific partisan role in the conflict.
American Dream wrote:so many in the conspiracy community have been weaponized to play a specific partisan role in the conflict.
liminalOyster » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:13 am wrote:Do you believe what you call "conspiracy" plays a single (or even just dominant) "partisan role" in the current political landscape? Or is the paradigm of conspiracy activated by interests all over the spectrum. And what do you mean when you say "conspiracy community?"
American Dream » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:14 pm wrote:"Conspiracy community" is just a quick and dirty term for describing those who pursue conspiracy-related themes.
I don't consider the people it describes to be a monolithic bloc in any way.While the old days where left wing type conspiracists seemed to be a sizeable chunk [this is not English], now we [sic!] are the minority, near as I can tell.
While conspiracy motifs are rising in visibility and importance, I am sorely troubled about its [sic - exactly what are you talking about???] increasing weaponization by the far Right [what is being weaponized by them, exactly? The term? Or what?] and the linkages [What "linkages"? As ever, you merely assert them.] to Russian elites in that process. No matter what you may call us [sic!]- "conspiracy theorists", "conspiracists", "the conspiracy community". [all thickwitted and pejorative terms, all used incessantly by you] or anything else- this seems to be the emergijng trend and I find that sad.
American Dream » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:45 am wrote:It's true that you've never called me a spook or warmonger, Elvis. It's not your M..O. at all. I certainly don't hate you. In fact, I have many friends who believe things I don't believe at all, so that is not the issue, per se.
I don't particularly hate Assad as a person, indeed I barely think about him as an individual. It's more the issue of all the people who have been tortured, gassed, bombed, displaced, terrorized and what have you. Certainly this is not the exclusive province of the Baathist Regime.
I do find it horrifying though that so many in the conspiracy community have been weaponized to play a specific partisan role in the conflict. I do have feelings about this, in part because we have been used so many times before and in horrible ways. I'm painfully conscious of this.
liminalOyster » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm wrote:I like alot of what you post but I do feel you have a tendency towards 1) deciding certain theories are right wing, 2) deciding that *therefore* left-wingers subscribing to them are actually crypto-fascists (Cynthia McKinney and Caitlin Johnstone for instance) and then 3) claiming a wane of left-wingers.
American Dream » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:03 am wrote:@srp
Bottom line is this: I find some of Bill Weinberg's writings interesting and useful. That doesn't mean I "believe" in him in some absolute sense. Indeed, I may not be fully decided on any particular question. In a similar way, I don't feel that content from Louis Proyect, Andrew Coates, Wahid Azal, A Roaming Vagabond, Bob from Brockley or any other such writer should be considered as "forbidden" or somehow antithetical to the spirit of Rigorous Intuition.
Likewise, to try a priori, to exclude content because it may use terms such as "conspiracy theories" or speaks disparagingly of "Truthers", when this is in fact the everyday discourse of the vast majority is I think, to be self-limiting, to try to institutionalize a kind of self-brainwashing regime. To make official policy out of that would, to me, be antithetical to Rigorous Intuition.
People who actively cultivate critical thinking [!!!], even while pursuing minority discourse, should be better than that[!!!!!], indeed we must be if we are to achieve much of anything.
Wombaticus Rex » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:07 pm wrote:
That's a very funny question! You got suspended because of your entire online MO -- the passive aggressive snipes at people, stirring shit up and then acting like you don't see people responding, and overall, maintaining your stellar track record of being the most intelligent and subtle troll we've ever had here at Rigorous Intuition to date (with the possible exception of Jeff Wells, of course -- jury is still out on that one).
A great way to reverse that trend would be to treat the people in this thread who are asking you questions like normal human beings, who are just as smart as you, don't have "problematic" or "questionable" motivations, and would earnestly like answers from you! Give it a shot! Could be exciting.
[...] Too bad the intended recipient refused to [take] the advice of our esteemed mod and continues stirring shit up even after proclaiming he is "ready now to move on to more compelling things in my own life." So move the fuck on already!
Is any engagement by leftists with right-wing forces an indication for fascism creeping into their ranks? If that was the case, what does this mean for anarchist luminaries such as Erich Mühsam and Rudolf Rocker who, in the early 1930s, held public meetings with representatives of the National Socialists’ “left wing” (the so-called Strasser current, documented in Ross’s book)? The events were co-organized with the intention to “get to know and understand each other through sensible discussion”, as explained in Mühsam’s journal Fanal under the header “A Worthwhile Attempt”. Does this mean the anarchists were seduced by fascists? Did they have fascist sympathies? Did they believe they could bring the right-wingers over to their side? Or did they think that an open debate was important to convince working-class folks to rally around the ideals of solidarity rather than chauvinism? These are difficult questions to answer, but they indicate that antifascism is more complicated than denouncing fascists and celebrating one’s own righteousness. (No message conveyed by Ross’s book, I’m just making a general point here.) Revolutionary politics are often conducted in muddy waters, but it is the environment we are forced to move in if we want to change anything. Despite all the risks and dangers this implies, we need to figure out when and how to engage with opponents rather than to withdraw from the political terrain altogether and settle for the moral high ground. This would be fatal.
Identifying the Enemy, A review of Alexander Reid Ross's "Against the Fascist Creep".
liminalOyster » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm wrote:I like alot of what you post but I do feel you have a tendency towards 1) deciding certain theories are right wing, 2) deciding that *therefore* left-wingers subscribing to them are actually crypto-fascists (Cynthia McKinney and Caitlin Johnstone for instance) and then 3) claiming a wane of left-wingers.
American Dream wrote: Louis Proyect, Andrew Coates, Wahid Azal, Oakland Socialist, A Roaming Vagabond, Bob from Brockley etc.
MacCruiskeen » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:23 pm wrote:Note too the response from stillrobertpaulsen, not a mod then, just one of the politest, friendliest and most reasonable posters on this board:[...] Too bad the intended recipient refused to [take] the advice of our esteemed mod and continues stirring shit up even after proclaiming he is "ready now to move on to more compelling things in my own life." So move the fuck on already!
MacCruiskeen wrote:Enough. You are simply insufferable. I have never, literally never, met any honest human being anywhere on the left who talks the way you do, who lies the way you do, who pushes poisonous bullshit the way you do, who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions the way you do, who agitates for war non-stop the way you do, who wastes honest people's time the way you do, namely: shamelessly and incessantly. It is not Cynthia McKinney who is the crypto-fascist (as you so slimily, so disgustingly, assert), nor Vanessa Beeley nor Eva Bartlett nor Robert Fisk or any of the other brave and honest people you so casually shit on in passing without ever taking responsibility for it, but you yourself: You are the cryptofascist, you timewasting mealymouthed duplicitous warmongering creep.
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