Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Cordelia » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:08 pm

Jerky » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:19 am wrote:Where did the last few posts come from? What spawned such a strange back and forth, from out of the blue?

YOPJ


Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion in General Discussions? :wink
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby alloneword » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:18 pm

Sounder » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:54 am wrote:The trouble is, they are all the wrong radio stations at the moment. For me,..radio free for over ten years now, but we are social beings and I need a signal from somewhere, and while the static can be ignored, it is still there, and indeed perhaps it will provide a positive service in the end.

My way to cope is to shut the computer and go play The Wind that Shakes the Barley on fiddle. It's a very pretty tune. :wink

Russia-gate has stepped up the level of my fiddle playing several notches.


A very pretty tune, indeed. :)

I know what you mean regarding them all being the wrong station, I've not listened for over a decade now, too. If I'm ever forced to hear it - say in a friends car or workshop - I find it intolerable. Hell, I don't even need to hear the words... if, for instance, BBC Radio 4 is on in another room, the tone of the newsreaders voice alone burbling through the wall is enough to send me into a spluttering rage, you can just tell that they're lying. I know the tune, even if I can't hear the words. :lol:

I don't really mind that much what 'show' is playing, so long as it's honest. So long as it has fidelity and integrity.

So yeah, I filter. A lot. And sometimes I know I'm probably missing some of the signal as a result, but I also know I'm getting a lot more of the signal - and with better clarity - than I would with no filters present.

There's plenty enough good, honest stuff to fill the meagre amount of time I have to spare for such things these days - especially here on RI. The rest, I literally have no time for.

That said, I very much do appreciate the efforts of those that challenge the bullshit, hold it's propagators to account etc. If nothing else, it's entertaining... and often most informative. So in that regard, a 'positive service'.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Cordelia » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:34 am

By Amy Dickinson

April 22 at 12:00 AM

Dear Amy: I love and respect my wife. But we can't converse because she is always talking. When we go out with friends her verbal domination exhausts everyone. She repeats generally well-worn childhood stories. Her style is intense, yet repetitive, and endlessly meandering. She conducts a running monologue when others attempt to get a word in edgewise.

If I have an interesting experience? She jumps in to tell my story. Alone together, she'll ask me a question then respond before I can answer.

Can you discern the root cause of this over-talking behavior? Can you recommend some nonconfrontational encouragements toward conversational calm, or will my meaningful conversations always be found outside my marriage?

Seldom Heard

Seldom Heard
: This seems to be an increasingly common frustration.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... 5d07a03397


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw4pnQNbBxE
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Elvis » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:46 am

"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:45 pm

It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected.


I don't see any mention by Mr. Wells that those we disagree with should be lynched, punched or assaulted.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Elvis » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:42 pm

These may help in forming rigorous arguments and effective rebuttals—a few logical fallacies to watch out for:


The Ten Commandments of Rational Debate


1. Thou shall not attack a person's character but the argument itself. "Ad hominem"

2. Thou shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person's argument in order to make it easier to attack. "Straw Man Fallacy"

3. Thou shall not use small numbers to represent the whole. "Hasty Generalization"

4. Thou shall not argue thy position by assuming one of its premises is true. "Begging the Question"

5. Thou shall not claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause. "Post Hoc/False Claim"

6. Thou shall not reduce the argument down to two possibilities. "False Dichotomy"

7. Thou shall not argue that because of our ignorance that the claim must be true or false. "Ad Ignorantiam"

8. Thou shall not lay the burden of proof onto him who is questioning the claim. "Burden of Proof Reversal"

9. Thou shall not assume "this" follows "that" when "it" has no logical connection. "Non Sequitor"

10. Thou shall not claim that because a premises is popular, therefore, it must be true. "Bandwagon Fallacy"


(I copied these from the Internet some months ago; sorry, no source. Feel free to exand it.)
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:21 pm



It beggars belief.

MacCruiskeen » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:Oh for jesus christ almighty's sake, whose decision was this? ^^ What prompted it? What can possibly justify it? Especially at a time like this?

Elvis??? Who made this call??? Who let this infamous board-destroyer back in, this notorious troll, sneak and flamebaiting fake? Who made this decision to destroy RI General Discussion once and for all? Why, [b]exactly?

Please explain the reasoning behind this, if any, and exactly who was involved in it. (Was Jeff Wells consulted? Was this yet another case of "moderation" by the back door, in secret, via PM or email? Who participated?)

What is going on here?
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Of felony [...]
The pyckpurse and eke the pale drede,
The smyler, with the knyfe under the cloke.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:27 pm

Take a hike, Mac. Nothing to discuss in your comment. Take it up with the mods via pm.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:14 pm

Elvis, any chance of a reply to this sometime soon? It's been a couple of hours now. Thanks in advance.

MacCruiskeen » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:21 pm wrote:


It beggars belief.

MacCruiskeen » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:05 pm wrote:Oh for jesus christ almighty's sake, whose decision was this? ^^ What prompted it? What can possibly justify it? Especially at a time like this?

Elvis??? Who made this call??? Who let this infamous board-destroyer back in, this notorious troll, sneak and flamebaiting fake? Who made this decision to destroy RI General Discussion once and for all? Why, [b]exactly?

Please explain the reasoning behind this, if any, and exactly who was involved in it. (Was Jeff Wells consulted? Was this yet another case of "moderation" by the back door, in secret, via PM or email? Who participated?)

What is going on here?
There sawe I fyrst the derke ymagynyng
Of felony [...]
The pyckpurse and eke the pale drede,
The smyler, with the knyfe under the cloke.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Jerky » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:42 pm

ROTFLMAO oh, man. Imagine being this personally invested in a fellow discussion board participant's punishment and disciplining. Talk about beggaring belief!

Good to see you here, AD! Glad to see that reason and common sense have finally stepped in to this sorry state of affairs here at RigInt. Maybe it's a glimmer of hope for brighter and better days ahead.

Yet old pal JERKY
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:14 pm

Good idea to repost this here

Jeff » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:18 pm wrote:There's no way this won't sound anodyne, but isn't the board big enough for everyone?

I won't pretend to be up to speed on all of the disagreements here, but maybe that's good. The issues are maybe irrelevant to my point, which is that you don't all need to be pals, but maybe you do need to give each other some space.

I don't want anybody banned or the board to be heavily moderated. In return, all I'd like is some basic, online courtesy. Like not flooding someone's thread, or driving discussion off topic, or making vicious personal attacks. That kind of stuff.

Jeff out.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:31 am

Well, by damn. After hour upon hour upon hour of blatant dishonesty and prevarication by the guy behind the moniker "82_28", we finally learn the truth (and of course not from him, but from an honest man):

Elvis » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:17 pm wrote:
I've been busy and away, and checked in about an hour ago
.

No one consulted with me on decisions made the last two days. I am as surprised as anyone.

If 82_28 will have the courtesy to reply to my PM, maybe I'll learn what happened.


Emphases added, and no apologies for the re-sizing, the bolding or the colour. If anything deserves to be made unignorable, this does.

Welcome back, Elvis.
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Of felony [...]
The pyckpurse and eke the pale drede,
The smyler, with the knyfe under the cloke.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Jerky » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:53 pm

Do you really think Elvis was consulting with 82_28 when he was doing you and Jack and the other handful of Usual Suspects' bidding, handing out year-long bans and perma-bans to participants here who were "guilty" of doing a tiny fraction of what you and your cohort were doing on pretty much an hourly basis?!

McClesky isn't a one man operation anymore. Get over it. And get over yourself.

J
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby RocketMan » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:31 am

Jerky » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:53 am wrote:Do you really think Elvis was consulting with 82_28 when he was doing you and Jack and the other handful of Usual Suspects' bidding, handing out year-long bans and perma-bans to participants here who were "guilty" of doing a tiny fraction of what you and your cohort were doing on pretty much an hourly basis?!

McClesky isn't a one man operation anymore. Get over it. And get over yourself.

J


This user is a vicious, malevolent troll, I am now sure of it. Called to the board again by rising negative energies to feast upon RI garmonbozia. Just mean-spirited, chaos-inducing, hyperbolic bullshit.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:53 pm

If there was an amateur psychologist analyzing RI members by remote viewing then some of the erroneous assumptions might include the following misconceptions:

Seemslikeadream is the Anti-Trump made manifest as a prolific poster of protest pieces in the popular press that penetrate the President and his political pimps.

American Dream is a wall to wall paster and protester of less popular publishings.

JackRiddler is the polar opposite of Donald Trump, except they share an egocentric world view that theirs is the only correct one, and others should conform to it. Any other person posting more, receiving more attention or offering counter opinions is considered a rival, a foil and a target for denigration and dismissal. Any opposing but popular view is purile state propaganda and any proponent of it is a dupe.

Belligerent Savant is Jack Riddler’s number one fan, follower and fond admirer. He is the first to follow and fawn over Jack’s posts and then try to restate them as his own view. Imitation impels him to attempt original thinking and analysis far less successfully while defending Jack as the Prima Donna of Opposing Opinion Posts.

MacCruiskeen is a curmudgeon that conducts his temper tantrums in text and then takes umbrage at respondents by further castigating their character with cruel aspersions about their imagined motivation and intent to make him more miserable.

RocketMan is a raw Elton John tribute act that also tries to be a Jack Riddler with BS.

Elvis is a mod who became so enraptured by Jack’s Monetary Policy and political pronouncements that they built their own roundup rodeo corral of hitching posts to contain all the maverick cattle and outlaw the rustlers of their sacred cows.

82-28 became the outside absentee mod who returned to remake the board in Jeff’s image and readmit all the banned shit disturbers of the preceding domain’s hit list.

Iamwhomiam is the conscience of the board and the backbone of the braver voices.

Jerky is the jangling nerve underpinning the board history and continuity through crisis while reminding all members that the commonality we share is rebellion.

Elfismiles is the UFO – unknown former observer – who flies in to keep us all honest.

identity is a foreign entity with a propensity for casting world-wide aspersions.

stickdog99 is a sneaky cur with a one-line trick and bone to pick.

frumenschen finds snippets on the sidelines to tickle the fancy and paste smiles.

Cordelia collects the sounds of the collective chorus in 5-word caption captures.

Grizzly growls in grumpy groans and grimaces that grovel in egregious garbage.

Chump likes to dump in a slump for a thread bump or pump a lump for Trump.

Peartreed is the pear tree percher poised with a poison feather pen, a warped left wing and a happy halo from Hell. He has a cyber crush on long-suffering SLAD.
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