Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:38 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:16 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:49 pm wrote:This is a rather long but easy to read comic. Seems to fit at RI and in this thread. Please read to the end.

You're not going to believe what I am about to tell you.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe


:rofl: I loved this!!!

PufPuf93, thank you for singlepostedly making me remember why I pinned this thread to the top of GD in the first place. I hope everyone reads this to the end and takes away something in which they can improve their own rhetoric. After all, you can only really control your own behavior and whatever information you present here, the rhetoric you use to present that information is your responsibility. So use it with as much thoughtfulness and consideration as you can. Peace out.


Made my day SRP. Glad you are back to RI. :jumping: :yay
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby RocketMan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:45 am

Is flooding copy pasta "rhetoric"?
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:59 am

RocketMan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:45 am wrote:Is flooding copy pasta "rhetoric"?


Good question. The answer is no, of course. And is flooding copy pasta "discussion", srp? If you truly think so, please explain how it constitutes discussion and in what way it is "collaborative".
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:52 am

MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:59 am wrote:
RocketMan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:45 am wrote:Is flooding copy pasta "rhetoric"?


Good question. The answer is no, of course. And is flooding copy pasta "discussion", srp? If you truly think so, please explain how it constitutes discussion and in what way it is "collaborative".


As expected, no response from SRP to either my or RocketMan's perfectly reasonable and perfectly polite questions.

If someone taking part in a discussion knows the answer to a pertinent question, then the decent thing for him to do is, obviously, to answer the question. That would make for meaningful discussion. That's what an honest participant on this Discussion Board would do, as opposed to just ignoring those questions and slinking off in the huff.

So much for SRP's pretended interest in rhetoric, discussion, collaboration, or the welfare of RI. Flooding copypasta is just fine by him, apparently, though of course this depends entirely on who's doing the flooding. As for the flooded, they can just suck it up.

The dishonesty and sneakiness here are off the chart.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:48 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:16 pm wrote:
PufPuf93 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:49 pm wrote:This is a rather long but easy to read comic. Seems to fit at RI and in this thread. Please read to the end.

You're not going to believe what I am about to tell you.

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe


:rofl: I loved this!!!

PufPuf93, thank you for singlepostedly making me remember why I pinned this thread to the top of GD in the first place. I hope everyone reads this to the end and takes away something in which they can improve their own rhetoric. After all, you can only really control your own behavior and whatever information you present here, the rhetoric you use to present that information is your responsibility. So use it with as much thoughtfulness and consideration as you can. Peace out.


MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:52 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:59 am wrote:
RocketMan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:45 am wrote:Is flooding copy pasta "rhetoric"?


Good question. The answer is no, of course. And is flooding copy pasta "discussion", srp? If you truly think so, please explain how it constitutes discussion and in what way it is "collaborative".


As expected, no response from SRP to either my or RocketMan's perfectly reasonable and perfectly polite questions.

If someone taking part in a discussion knows the answer to a pertinent question, then the decent thing for him to do is, obviously, to answer the question. That would make for meaningful discussion. That's what an honest participant on this Discussion Board would do, as opposed to just ignoring those questions and slinking off in the huff.

So much for SRP's pretended interest in rhetoric, discussion, collaboration, or the welfare of RI. Flooding copypasta is just fine by him, apparently, though of course this depends entirely on who's doing the flooding. As for the flooded, they can just suck it up.

The dishonesty and sneakiness here are off the chart.


At first, MacCruiskeen, I thought this was a joke. It's almost like you read my post and then decided to do the exact opposite of what I hoped everyone would do after reading PufPuf93's link. You did read the link, didn't you? But instead of taking the opportunity to employ some self-reflection, maybe a little patience, you jump into attack mode!

Here's a tip: click on my profile, then click Search user's posts. Look at the timestamp on my last post prior to this one. (Hell, just look at the date!) Then look at the timestamp on your post. While you were asking your first pair of questions, I was probably eating dinner with my family before retiring to a night of internet-free fun. Yesterday, I was occupied with other activities, preparing for a contract negotiation with an employer who has been negligent on safety concerns being one of them, and I didn't have time to see your post, let alone respond to it.

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:52 am wrote:As expected, no response from SRP to either my or RocketMan's perfectly reasonable and perfectly polite questions.


I'll leave RocketMan out of this, since he didn't address me with his question, but I will address you, Mac: "perfectly reasonable"???"perfectly polite"??? First of all, "perfect" is vacuous hyperbole. Are your phone calls "perfect" too? But I don't find it "reasonable" or "polite" to be asked questions I've already answered, and in rather elaborate and painfuckingstaking detail, on the subject of copypasta and how to best facilitate collaborative discussion. Are you seriously feigning ignorance?! Do you need a link? Or are you just upset that I haven't changed my views to include the ludicrous "One OP per month" request that a majority of members already rejected and the mods have no interest in enacting?

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:52 am wrote:If someone taking part in a discussion knows the answer to a pertinent question, then the decent thing for him to do is, obviously, to answer the question. That would make for meaningful discussion. That's what an honest participant on this Discussion Board would do, as opposed to just ignoring those questions and slinking off in the huff.

What a snotty assumption. I've got a busy life outside of RI, which is why I no longer moderate. Again, you want to feign ignorance? Tell me how does the assumption that I am "slinking off in the huff" improve the rhetoric on this board? It's a rather antagonistic pose.

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:52 am wrote:So much for SRP's pretended interest in rhetoric, discussion, collaboration, or the welfare of RI. Flooding copypasta is just fine by him, apparently, though of course this depends entirely on who's doing the flooding. As for the flooded, they can just suck it up.

Way to put words in my mouth, Mac! That's a really winning way to improve the rhetoric around these parts! Some might even call it bullying! That's my one question to you that I really hope you answer: could you make a concerted effort to be more considerate of other people by being less belligerent in your interactions with others on RI? You know, just to show you're making an effort to do your part to make RI a better place and not just insinuating that the problems on RI are everyone else's fault.

MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:52 am wrote:The dishonesty and sneakiness here are off the chart.


Projection. Tell me again how I have never stated my position on copypasta, or that you were completely unaware of it. Pretend I never tried addressed it during my time as a mod. Pretend you were not the biggest pain in my ass, both in public and in PMs, bringing this subject to my attention. Spell it all out in a drama-filled reply to this post.

Just don't expect a reply until next week. Cuz, you know, life happens.
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby MacCruiskeen » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:59 pm

As everyone who can read has noticed, SRP, you still haven't answered the questions. You're still evading them, still slinking off from them, and now you're creating a (transparent) verbal smokescreen, precisely because you know the answers: Flooding the board with copypasta is not "rhetoric" of any kind, it is not conducive to "discussion", and it is no way "collaborative".

You also know precisely which two RI members are responsible for flooding the board with copypasta. So spare me (spare all of us) your Prince Valiant act, as if the board's most prolific and notorious spammer were an innocent damsel-in-distress and you were her saviour. It's ludicrous. She is no innocent damsel and your costume doesn't fit.

stillrobertpaulsen wrote:Pretend you were not the biggest pain in my ass, both in public and in PMs, bringing this subject to my attention.


Untrue, and you know it. It is a lie, a barefaced lie made worse by your smarminess. You know you are lying. You know I did no such thing. Never once did I pester you. You know you contacted me, not I you. You know you PM'd me to say you were "one of [my] biggest fans" and that you missed my presence here (I had given up on RI months previously), you know you told me you were thinking of taking on the moderator position here, and you know I responded to that posts of yours by thanking you and encouraging you to become mod.

And you have the cheek to accuse me of "belligerence"? Of "bullying" you? Get real, for christ's sake. At long last, sir, have you no decency?

Feel free to publish our entire PM correspondence here, all of it. But if you distort it in any way, or lie about me one more time, I won't hesitate to publish the true record myself.

You have just demonstrated precisely why this thread was and is necessary. The dishonesty and evasiveness here are indeed off the chart,

Now please excuse me, I'm busy.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:33 pm

Imagine yourself on a high, leaving a symphony concert of soaring, majestic, inspirational music only to be confronted out on the sidewalk by an organ grinder playing an endless, loud, off-key dirge while three trained monkeys danced lockstep to the same obnoxious tune, screeching for charitable attention.

That’s the kind of cacophony created by the constant complaining about, “flooding copy/pasta” here.

The former harmony of shared, rigorous intuition about an ever-changing stream of current news and controversy coverage created a welcoming venue of varied information to inspire examination and discussion by mature, respectful and intelligent analysts whose insights stimulated new perspectives. Two dedicated and dauntless news-gathering researchers reported breaking news items daily for everyone’s edification and consideration to either comment further or not, depending on interest.

(The beauty of internet interaction is the individual ability to scroll past whatever isn’t of any personal interest.)

Certainly the content was controversial, as were other posts by a plethora of participants of varied political and social views that were also open to debate, argument and disagreement on merit and substance. The key was respectful, impersonal, mature exchanges between inquisitive people with varied views. The dynamics of forum dialogue also developed familiar friendships, rivals and fun. It was the social benefit of mixing with fascinating minds and informative messages found here.

The destruction arrived in the form of fanatics bent on confining the forum content to their liking and, when frustrated in that takeover, turned to personal attacks, antagonism, berating and bullying the main contributors. Like the organ grinder and his monkeys, the noise has shattered the harmonies. Too many valued forum regulars have since left the fighting arena to find more hospitable, happy home sites.

There is enough political division and extremism and infighting everywhere else without enduring more stupid attacks here.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby alloneword » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:08 pm

So do you see what I mean, Mac? ***Every word***. ;)
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:15 pm

somebody that investigates another member


14 years and NO ONE has ever been so bold as to break the rules the way you have

I am not sure who you think you are....you have no more privilege here than I do


And to rely on personal attacks and agent baiting really seems childish.
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Last edited by seemslikeadream on Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:19 pm

he does this to a former mod.....he does this to a current mod

he does it to a mod that took a lot of time out of his life to try and make things better around here

all he ever does is divide

he has done this to

Countdown2012
AmercianDream
seemslikeadream
IanEye
peartreed
stillrobertpaulsen
82_28
brekin
Asta
elfismiles

and others and others that just don't agree that someone should be allowed year after year to keep doing this...they leave

these are all really nice LONG TIME MEMBERS HERE
people that do not want to be around it just pack it up and leave

Jeff came by and tired

elfismiles has tired to calm things down ...but NO ONE can stop him

elfismiles » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:00 am wrote:I'm so sick of all y'all's bullshit.

Every time I take a peek back into this place I just want to start screaming expletives at the a-holes around here who just can't seem to get a grip on themselves and stop attacking others.

Thanks for making this place all about each other and no longer about the weird shit that used to be why we came here.

Image



and his latest victim who did NOTHING to provoke him ...he just misunderstands something and flies into a rage thinking it is all about him

overcoming hope » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:20 pm wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:18 am wrote:
overcoming hope » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:10 pm wrote:I'm all about net results.
sometimes there seems to be a form of gish gallop taking place here.
Damn shame a few of you aren't getting paid for the work you do.


1. "Seems to be" or is? Specify. 2. Who are you accusing, exactly? Name your target. Certainly I have gish-galloped nobody here. 3. Your calculatedly-vague drive-by postlet contributes less than nothing to this discussion. It is a net loss.




I don’t have any targets I’m not going to say anything else about this it quickly turns into people telling me that I want them to die



but he is not the problem

it's everybody else's fault



you have three choices

leave
stay and ignore
stay and put up with it

elfismiles » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:34 am wrote:Thanks for this AD.

And sorry everyone around here are such assholes. I've disagreed with you plenty of times over the years but all these bullshit-provocateuristas have made it such that I'm pretty much done with this place.

Just checking in nowadays to find interesting links to stuff, like this.

Cheers. :cheers:



cptmarginal » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:31 pm wrote:I don't always agree with American Dream either, even on the topic of Syria in particular - but I can pull up countless examples of great contributions by him that make it seem absurd to see such hostility and anger directed his way. And to rely on personal attacks and agent baiting really seems childish. Both to myself (someone who potentially disagrees strongly with AD on Syria) or to any outside observer. A self-defeating waste of time.

What an embarrassment, to purposely flout what we all know is a friendly rule here (no agent baiting) and thereby place some personal emotional burden on a moderator over issues that are very much impersonal and distant. I want MORE disagreement, not less; in my mind this is why the forum guidelines were created in the first place. So that we can continue debates without getting stuck on petty personal needs and hangups, as per the request of the owner:

Jeff wrote:The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.

Members can help maintain the health of the board. If you see something that you think needs attention, please pm myself or a moderator with the link, or use the alert button.

Thank you for your civil and thoughtful contributions, and your cooperation in helping to generate more light than heat.


Never mind this followup guideline, we gave up on it:

Jeff wrote:Please refrain from directing obscenities towards other board members in the body of the post.


:lol:
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:53 pm

.


elfismiles » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:20 pm wrote:I'm really about ready to just beg Jeff to blow it all up...

Image


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q

Image

"You now have 30 seconds to reach minimum safe distance."



Belligerent Savant » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:38 pm wrote:.

Please do. Please beg Jeff to blow this place up.

Don't come here with drive-by snipes referring to 'attacks'. It's a mischaracterization, and it's based only on -- at best -- a cursory awareness of the issues here.

I do agree that some can benefit greatly from finding other hobbies (though 'hobby' is likely an egregious misnomer, as at least 2 members here spam this board around the clock daily, as if it was their job to do so. Such a waste of their apparently spare time. They certainly do NOT want Jeff to blow this place up).
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:54 pm

typical go after elfismiles now because he is just as sick and tired of your crap as everybody else that is not in your private little club

elfismiles is a respected long time member here and I do not know of one person that does not like him...he is just pissed about what he sees here

but of course now he is an enemy for speaking up to try and stop the personal insults

we are tired of it why can't you just stop

live and let live

and move on
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:05 pm

.
"Enemy".

Where did I use that word? Yet another purposeful misframing.

You have me on ignore. Make use of it, as I have no interest in your perpetual mischaracterizations and childish retorts.

If a member here types a statement, there should be a minimal expectation of a response, especially if there is disagreement with the statement. A member's tenure is utterly irrelevant to the topic.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:06 pm

yeah anyone that does not agree with you has to be silenced one way or another

I don't know how we all existed here for all these years until you decided things MUST CHANGE!!

oh yeah we all abided by the rules
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:07 pm

.


seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:06 pm wrote:yeah anyone that does not agree with you has to be silenced one way or another




You can't help but dish out facile mischaracterizations, eh?

Please cite a single instance where I suggested such a thing.


Cite a single instance or RETRACT it.
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