[Aristotle], On Trolling

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[Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby bks » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:31 am

This gets to its essence. Presented without comment, until the comments come in.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services ... olling.pdf

Journal of the American Philosophical Association (2016) 193–195 C American Philosophical
Association

doi: 10.1017/apa.2016.9 This is an Open Access article, distributed under the terms of the

Creative Commons Attribution licence (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/), which permits
unrestricted re-use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is
properly cited.

[Aristotle], On Trolling

That trolling is a shameful thing, and that no one of sense would accept to be
called ‘troll’, all are agreed; but what trolling is, and how many its species are,
and whether there is an excellence of the troll, is unclear. And indeed trolling is
said in many ways; for some call ‘troll’ anyone who is abusive on the internet,
but this is only the disagreeable person, or in newspaper comments the angry old
man. And the one who disagrees loudly on the blog on each occasion is a lover of
controversy, or an attention-seeker. And none of these is the troll, or perhaps some
are of a mixed type; for there is no art in what they do. (Whether it is possible to
troll one’s own blog is unclear; for the one who poses divisive questions seems only
to seek controversy, and to do so openly; and this is not trolling but rather a kind
of clickbait.)

Well then, the troll in the proper sense is one who speaks to a community
and as being part of the community; only he is not part of it, but opposed. And
the community has some good in common, and this the troll must know, and
what things promote and destroy it: for he seeks to destroy. Hence no one would
troll the remotest Mysian, or even know how, but rather a Republican trolls a
Democratic blog and a Democrat Republicans. And he destroys the thread by
disputing what is known to be true, or abusing what is recognised as admirable;
or he creates fear about a small problem, as if it were large, or treats a necessary
matter as small; or he speaks abuse while claiming to be a friend. And in general
the troll says what is false but sounds like the truth—or rather he does not quite
say it, but rather something very close to it which is true, or partly true, or best
of all merely asks a simple question about the evidence for climate change. Hence
the modes of trolling are many: the concern-troll, the one who ‘sees the other
side’, the polite inquirer into the obvious. For the perfected troll has no need of
rudeness or abuse, or even of fallacy (this belongs rather to sophistic or eristic,
and requires making an argument): he only makes a suggestion or indication
[semainein ˆ ].

And this is how the troll generates strife. For what he indicates is known
to be false or harmful or ignorant; but he does not say that thing, but rather
something close. In this way he retains the possibility of denial, and the skilled troll
is always surprised and hurt, or seems to be, when the others take his comments
up. And so he sets the community apart from each other, and introduces strife
where before there was scarcely disagreement. For each person who takes up
what was said grasps only a part of it, and insists on that, and is annoyed when
others affirm something different. For some indeed see that the troll trolls, and
are harsh; but others think that they ought to be more gentle, and others again
do not even see the falsity, but grasp the truth which is nearby and insist that
the troll ‘has a decent point’. And this is excess of charity and the death of the
board.

The end of the troll is not in his own speech, then, but in that of the others, when
they take up his comments in as many ways as bring regret. For there is excess or
deficiency in each response, and then more again in each response to that; and every
responder chooses his own words lightly but demands exactitude from the rest, and
while correcting the others he introduces something new and questionable. And so
resentment is built up, and the slighting begins; and the strife is the work of the
troll but the origin is not clear.

Trolls differ primarily in their for-the-sake-of-which: at any rate some troll
for amusement, and a few for profit, but most as enemies and members of a
faction. (Hence the troll is thought to be weak, and one who sits in pyjamas:
for the advantage to the faction is not worth much, and a courageous enemy
would fight in some other way.) And of these the amusement-troll is in a way
the worst, for he aims only at his own gratification. But this one is also the least
harmful; for he is careless and easy to discern, coming close to being a lover of
controversy. And since trolling is in each case a matter of choice, no one is ever a
troll involuntarily or by accident, but only an idiot who has posted in the wrong
thread.

One might wonder whether there is an art of trolling and an excellence; and
indeed some say that Socrates was a troll, and so that the good man also trolls.
And this is in fact what the troll claims: that he is a gadfly and beneficial, and
without him to ‘stir up’ the thread it would become dull and unintelligent. But
this is incorrect. For Socrates was speaking frankly when he told the Athenians to
care for their souls, rather than money and honors, and showed that they lacked
knowledge. And this is not trolling but the contrary, exhortation and truth-telling—
even if the citizens get very annoyed. For annoyance results from many kinds of
speech; and the peculiarity [idion] of the troll is not annoyance or controversy in
general, but confusion and strife among a community who really agree. And since
the one who does this on every occasion must act with knowledge, and on the basis
of practice and care, he has a kind of art—just as one might speak of the art of
the hack or of the grifter. But it is not really an art, being without any function;
and it belongs not to the serious person to be a troll but to the one who lacks
education.

What the troll is, and in what way he trolls and for what, has now been
said. And it is clear from this that there can be trolling outside the internet. For
every community of speakers holds certain goods in common, and with them the
conversation [dialegesthai] as an end in itself; and the troll is one who seeks to
damage it from within. So a questioner can troll a political meeting, and academics
troll each other in committees when they are bored; and a newspaper columnist
may be a profit-troll towards a whole city. But blogs and boards and forums and
comments sections are where the troll dwells primarily and for the most part. For
these are weak communities, and anyone may be part of them: and so their good
is easily destroyed. Hence the saying, ‘Trolls are not to be fed’. But though
everyone knows this, everyone does it; for the desire to be right on the internet is
natural and present to all.

translated by rachel barney
university of toronto
rachel.barney@utoronto.ca
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:47 am

Fascinating. Could be written by an RI member. :shock:

The analogy with fishing—trolling—seems apt:

Trolling is a method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water.


Outriggers are poles which allow a boat to troll several lines in the water without tangling. A boat which trolls enough lines can simulate a school of fish.


A daisy chain is a chain of plastic lures which have no hooks. Their purpose is to function as teasers which attract a school of fish closer to the lures that do have hooks.


Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling_(fishing)
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:59 am

Elvis » 24 Apr 2018 14:47 wrote:Fascinating. Could be written by an RI member. :shock:

The analogy with fishing—trolling—seems apt


One supposes it should, seeing as that's where the term/analogy comes from in the first place.

J
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:01 am

What if any is the difference between trolling and just plain bullying?
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:51 am

I think it's drawn more from this:

The English noun "troll" in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word "troll" meaning giant or demon.[17] The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales: antisocial, quarrelsome and slow-witted creatures which make life difficult for travellers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:59 am wrote:
Elvis » 24 Apr 2018 14:47 wrote:Fascinating. Could be written by an RI member. :shock:

The analogy with fishing—trolling—seems apt


One supposes it should, seeing as that's where the term/analogy comes from in the first place.

J
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby minime » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:06 pm

Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:51 am wrote:I think it's drawn more from this:

The English noun "troll" in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word "troll" meaning giant or demon.[17] The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales: antisocial, quarrelsome and slow-witted creatures which make life difficult for travellers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:59 am wrote:
Elvis » 24 Apr 2018 14:47 wrote:Fascinating. Could be written by an RI member. :shock:

The analogy with fishing—trolling—seems apt


One supposes it should, seeing as that's where the term/analogy comes from in the first place.

J


Except for maybe the efforts of the Académie française, language is much more free-flowing than that. The original private inspiration for trolling may have been either, or both. The reason for its broad adoption may have been either, but was likely both.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:09 pm

minime wrote:Except for maybe the efforts of the Académie française, language is much more free-flowing than that. The original private inspiration for trolling may have been either, or both. The reason for its broad adoption may have been either, but was likely both.


Yes, I will grant that.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:13 pm

I am fisherwoman that uses an electric trolling motor on her boat



An 1895 article in Scientific American entitled "A Portable Electric Propeller for Boats" stated: "Briefly described, it consists of a movable tube which is hinged at the stern of the boat, much as an oar is used in sculling. The tube contains a flexible shaft formed of three coils of phosphor bronz. This tube extends down and out into the water, where it carries a propeller, and at the inboard end an electric Motor is attached, which is itself driven by batteries." It was invented and sold by the Electric Boat company.[1][2]

The electric trolling motor was invented by O.G.Schmidt in 1934[3] in Fargo, North Dakota, when he took a starter motor from a Ford Model A, added a flexible shaft, and a propeller. Because his manufacturing company was near the Minnesota/North Dakota border, he decided to call the new company Minn Kota. The company still is a major manufacturer of trolling motors
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby minime » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:13 pm

Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:09 am wrote:
minime wrote:Except for maybe the efforts of the Académie française, language is much more free-flowing than that. The original private inspiration for trolling may have been either, or both. The reason for its broad adoption may have been either, but was likely both.


Yes, I will grant that.


Sure...

but why ask who?
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:10 pm

I've always taken it to mean trolling for reactions, as in fishing for reactions. The connotation of an ugly mythological creature came after (much after) the original meaning of trolling, according to my experience of it online. And this is something that came to pass solely because as more and more people got online, the percentage of people familiar with trolls at some point overtook the percentage of people familiar with trolling, and inertia did the rest.

J.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:11 pm

Hence it being called "trolling" and not "being troll-like".

J
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Elvis » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:11 pm

But it's also used as a noun—"Internet troll"—"he's a troll" etc.

Image
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby minime » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:32 pm

Interesting to note that almost all foreign-language equivalents refer to the fishing version of trolling.
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby elfismiles » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:39 pm

TROLLING VS TRAWLING

trawl
trôl/
verb
gerund or present participle: trawling

fish with a trawl net or seine.
"the boats trawled for flounder"
synonyms: fish, seine, drag a net; More
sift, troll;
hunt, search, look
"they trawl for shrimp every morning"
catch with a trawl net.
sift through as part of a search.
"they trawled through twenty-five-year-old confidential files"
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Re: [Aristotle], On Trolling

Postby Jerky » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:42 pm

You know what? I think (in English at least) this is one case where neither of us is more "correct" than the other.

I agree that it's certainly evolved to mean a creature otherwise, we'd be calling people who engage in trolling "trollers" and not "trolls".

I also think that this may be a case of something that is more fun, more playful, more appealing pushing out the original "true" meaning simply due to it's being more fun, playful and appealing.

Language... it's a hell of a thing!

J.

Elvis » 24 Apr 2018 18:11 wrote:But it's also used as a noun—"Internet troll"—"he's a troll" etc.

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