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JackRiddler » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:51 pm wrote:Wombaticus Rex » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:14 am wrote:JackRiddler » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:26 am wrote:
- Many good people on this board have been captured ideologically by this manner of bullshit. You should get offline and go join groups like DSA and do some fucking good in the world.
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Agreed. DSA desperately needs non-date-rapist males these days -- a real drought so far.
You working for Pepe now? I guess Krugman (the most soft-spoken pundit-demagogue you'll ever run into) might say the same kind of shit, given how shamelessly he boosted the Clintonian "Bernie Bros" campaign. But how totally constructive of you. Good thing you're here to warn about it, since insofar as it might be so, it would be a truly exceptional environment. Our society is otherwise so civil and respectful, especially in the treatment of women.
Maybe you're thinking of some incident or other, or some actual DSA chapter. I don't know about your corner, but DSA people in my neighborhood and city and many other places are mostly young women who are doing things like getting Ocasio elected, and the fellows I've met are totally okay. Hey, as far as I can see. Are you sure you're not confusing which group meeting you were at? Was it the incel support group?
(OH! BURN!!!)
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John Michael Greer, hm. Now I'm curious to read some of his books.
JackRiddler » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:58 pm wrote:Belligerent Savant » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:31 am wrote:Quite right. A recurring theme inherent to many of my comments here. Power attracts assholes. The higher profile the position, the greater the concentration/caliber of ahole(s). Humans have yet to get over that hump. Non-aholes tend to lack the aholery required to insert themselves into positions that require ahole tactics and unethical behavior to succeed/maintain power/influence, due largely to the flaws inherent to modern human mindsets. Catch 22.
We're all familiar with this but it's also too simple. Leaving it as a rule (as your joke with the graph implies) can breed hopelessness about it.* Stealing from Foucault among others (OMG! CULTURAL MARXIST POSTMODERN MAOIST GENOCIDE ALERT!!! ACTIVATE PETERSON SOFTWARE!), power is not a static structure or a simple flow from top to bottom. Power is expressed through a circuit, it is a verb not a noun, resulting structures change over time, revolutions of all kinds can happen on a much smaller scale than aliens or a global evolutionary jump. Power attracts sociopaths and institutions encourage sociopathy, but not everyone who ends up in an ostensible position of power (or who accumulates a lot of wealth) had to have been an asshole to get there, or acts equally as an asshole. (Some must act like assholes or lose the power; but how powerful is that, actually?) Power is also mobilizable from below, or from the sides. Etc.
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dada » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:21 am wrote:How about the Backspace Boys.
Heaven Swan » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:49 pm wrote:
Wait a minute. Is this some inside joke I’m not getting or are you implying that Wombaticus Rex, our former moderator is a fascist and and/or incel?
JackRiddler » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:09 pm wrote:Heaven Swan » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:49 pm wrote:
Wait a minute. Is this some inside joke I’m not getting or are you implying that Wombaticus Rex, our former moderator is a fascist and and/or incel?
No. Obviously not. Try reading what I write, instead of the parts you bold.
I am giving him shit because he's saying shit, in this case. I like him fine, he writes great stuff on this board sometimes. I found the Angleton article unforgettable.
Rory is also giving shit, with a story (unlinked, no details, thus only from one unreliable source for now, that source being Rory) of men being mean to a woman, as if it speaks to the "left." The difference being, this is every day and everywhere in almost every context in the U.S. and around the world, and a serious problem, but it is not a per-se "left" problem. It is a men problem. Ideologically, at least, the left opposes it. The right embraces it. It is programmatic for most tendencies on the right that feminists are bad, that there is no rape culture, that women's bodies should be controlled, that childbirth should be forced on them, that day care centers make serial killers, that women are naturally weepy and men get the job done, etc. Pretty much the opposite positions are programmatic, on the left, regardless of the kind of bad individual behavior that can be found everywhere else. To bring up some story of individual behaviors (uncited, unlinked, and not real as long as it's the unreliable Rory's trap talking, and no other source), it is distraction and derailing of the discussion, just like WR's hit-and-run comment: playing to stereotypes and (right-wing) prejudices about groups of people rather than actual progammatic differences. That's basically what Greer is serving up, and it may as well be out of Breitbart for his understanding of social movements or actual left groups. There is nothing whatsoever new in this kind of "centrist" move, it is a lazy way to get easy cheers from lazy thinkers.
What isn't being addressed here are the ideas of health care as human right, economic and social justice, ending mass incarceration, ending prohibition, ending empire, converting to renewable energies, cutting the military and spending on human needs, increasingly also MMT and a jobs for all program. These are left - generally speaking, progressive and socialist - ideas (Ending empire can also be found on the right). They are not Democratic party platforms, since, of course, at the top and official levels, except for a small minority, the Democratic Party is not leftist but basically the other right wing, neoliberal, imperialist capitalist party. Hillary Clinton is not remotely "the left" and the TV pundits playing "liberals" are just players, serving up right-wing politics as if it is oppositional.
Rory » Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:35 pm wrote:You're wrong about John Michael Greer, fwiw
And the young woman, DSA member who designed the brilliant graphics and campaign posters for Ocasio, quit due to harassment by DSA men of upstanding repute
JackRiddler » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:12 pm wrote:I don't mind being bolded. We all do that. I mind it when the bold suggests a conclusion (in this case a jibe, not an assertion) contradicted already in the next sentence. But Heaven Swan was acting in good faith, I am certain. It's a misunderstanding and I am a mean sarcastic bastard sometimes.
It’s not easy to discuss things on the internet I suppose, there’s the time lag, the tendency to respond to more than one poster at a time...
In any case when I critique the left I’m coming from a place of wanting to work things out and shed light on possible self-destructive tendencies, for example the attitude of rejecting a priori and taunting people on the right. My critique is not a defense of the totality of the right so in responding to me there’s no need to defend the totality of the left.
One of the problems with the whole political correctness issue is that until you’re targeted it may be hard to see the toxicity of the terrain. As long as it’s all abstract, the regressive and authoritarian tendencies of an influential portion of the left could seem mild or harmless. Try being targeted, and I believe that it could or likely will happen to you Jack since you are vocal think for yourself. Then you’ll understand what I’m saying.
Iamwhomiam » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:18 pm wrote:I suppose a few of us would not mind such added emphasis, but I recall a recent argument between a couple over that very issue, and so, I felt it best to remind Heaven Swan to announce they have altered the phrase they're quoting in order to avoid such arguments now and in future. I doubt someone adding bold emphasis to one of my phrases would be of concern to me. I have done the same in the past.It’s not easy to discuss things on the internet I suppose, there’s the time lag, the tendency to respond to more than one poster at a time...
In any case when I critique the left I’m coming from a place of wanting to work things out and shed light on possible self-destructive tendencies, for example the attitude of rejecting a priori and taunting people on the right. My critique is not a defense of the totality of the right so in responding to me there’s no need to defend the totality of the left.
One of the problems with the whole political correctness issue is that until you’re targeted it may be hard to see the toxicity of the terrain. As long as it’s all abstract, the regressive and authoritarian tendencies of an influential portion of the left could seem mild or harmless. Try being targeted, and I believe that it could or likely will happen to you Jack since you are vocal think for yourself. Then you’ll understand what I’m saying.
Quite frankly, Heaven Swan, my suggestion was just that, a suggestion, and has not a thing to do with right or left or "political correctness." To avoid unnecessary and all but pointless argument was my only intent. Accuracy is most important for one's credibility.
How have you been targeted by the Left? Has someone here targeted you? Please explain.
Surely you don't believe that I saw you as a target, because that would be quite ridiculous.
Jerky wrote:HS, could you point me towards a link or something that would back up your claims that there has been a "torrent of violent attacks"
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