Khashoggi Disappearance

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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:33 pm


https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... the-truth/

www.craigmurray.org.uk
Khashoggi, Erdogan and the Truth - Craig Murray

The Turkish account of the murder of Khashoggi given by President Erdogan is true, in every detail. Audio and video evidence exists and has been widely shared with world intelligence agencies, including the US, UK, Russia and Germany, and others which have a relationship with Turkey or are seen as influential. That is why, despite their desperate desire to do so, no Western country has been able to maintain support for Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman. I have not seen the video from inside the consulate, but have been shown stills which may be from a video. The most important thing to say is that they are not from a fixed position camera and appear at first sight consistent with the idea they are taken by a device brought in by the victim. I was only shown them briefly. I have not heard the audio recording.

There are many things to learn from the gruesome murder other than the justified outrage at the event itself. It opens a window on the truly horrible world of the extremely powerful and wealthy.

The first thing to say is that the current Saudi explanation, that this was an intended interrogation and abduction gone wrong, though untrue, does have one thing going for it. It is their regular practice. The Saudis have for years been abducting dissidents abroad and returning them to the Kingdom to be secretly killed. The BBC World Service often contains little pockets of decent journalism not reflected in its main news outlets, and here from August 2017 is a little noticed piece on the abduction and “disappearance” of three other senior Saudis between 2015-17. Interestingly, while the piece was updated this month, it was not to include the obvious link to the Khashoggi case.

The key point is that European authorities turned a completely blind eye to the abductions in that BBC report, even when performed on European soil and involving physical force. The Saudi regime was really doing very little different in the Khashoggi case. In fact, inside Saudi Arabia, Khashoggi was a less senior and important figure than those other three abducted then killed, about whom nobody kicked up any fuss, even though the truth was readily available. Mohammed Bin Salman appears to have made two important miscalculations: he misread Erdogan and he underestimated the difference which Khashoggi’s position as a Washington Post journalist made to political pressure on Western governments.

Khashoggi should not himself be whitewashed. He had a long term professional association with the Saudi security services which put him on the side of prolific torturers and killers for decades. That does not in any sense justify his killing. But it is right to be deeply sceptical of the democratic credentials of Saudis who were in with the regime and have become vocal for freedom and democracy only after being marginalised by Mohammed Bin Salman’s ruthless consolidation of power (which built on a pre-existing trend).

The same scepticism is true many times over when related to CIA Director Gina Haspel, who personally supervised torture in the CIA torture and extraordinary rendition programme. Haspel was sent urgently to Ankara by Donald Trump to attempt to deflect Erdogan from any direct accusation of Mohammed Bin Salman in his speech yesterday. MBS’ embrace of de facto alliance with Israel, in pursuit of his fanatic hatred of Shia Muslims, is the cornerstone of Trump’s Middle East policy.

Haspel’s brief was very simple. She took with her intercept intelligence that purportedly shows massive senior level corruption in the Istanbul Kanal project, and suggested that Erdogan may not find it a good idea if intelligence agencies started to make public all the information they hold.

Whether Erdogan held back in his speech yesterday as a result of Haspel’s intervention I do not know. Erdogan may be keeping cards up his sleeve for his own purpose, particularly relating to intercepts of phone and Skype calls from the killers direct to MBS’ office. I have an account of Haspel’s brief from a reliable source, but have not been updated on who she then met, or what the Turks said to her. It does seem very probable, from Trump’s shift in position this morning to indicate MBS may be involved, that Haspel was convinced the Turks have further strong evidence and may well use it.

Meantime, the British government maintains throughout that, whatever else happens, British factories will continue to supply bombs to Saudi Arabia to massacre children on school buses and untold numbers of other civilians. Many Tory politicians remain personally in Saudi pockets, with former Defence Minister Michael Fallon revealed today as being amongst them.

It is of course extraordinary that Saudi war crimes in Yemen, its military suppression of democracy in Bahrain, its frequent executions of dissidents, human rights defenders, and Shia religious figures, even its arrests of feminists, have had little impact in the West. But the horrible murder of Khashoggi has caught the public imagination and forced western politicians to at least pretend to want to do something about the Saudis whose wealth they crave. I expect any sanctions will be smoke and mirrors.

Mohammed Bin Salman is no fool, and he realises that to punish members of his personal security detail who were just following his orders, would put him in the position of Caligula and the Praetorian Guard, and not tend to his long term safety. Possibly people will be reassigned, or there will be brief imprisonments till nobody is looking. If I were a dissident or Shia in Saudi Arabia who bore any kind of physical resemblance to any of the party of murderers, I would get out very quick.

With every sympathy for his horrible murder, Khashoggi and his history as a functionary of the brutal Saudi regime should not be whitewashed. Mohammed Bin Salman is directly responsible for his murder, and if there is finally international understanding that he is a dangerous psychopath, that is a good thing. You will forgive me for saying that I explained this back in March whilst the entire mainstream media, awash with Saudi PR cash, was praising him as a great reformer. For the Americans to deploy Gina Haspel gives us a welcome reminder that they are in absolutely no position to moralise. Whatever comes of this will not be “justice”. The truth the leads can reveal is much wider than the narrow question of the murder incident, as I hope this article sketches out. That the fallout derails to some extent the murder machine in Yemen is profoundly to be hoped.
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Important reminder with some good one-liners.

https://fair.org/home/blaming-saudis-fo ... loving-us/


fair.org

OCTOBER 22, 2018

Blaming Saudis for Corrupting Otherwise Human Rights–Loving US

Adam Johnson


As FAIR has noted for years, one of the primary ideological functions of US corporate media is to maintain the mythology that the US is a noble protector of democracy and arbiter of human rights. When material facts—like wars of aggression, massive spying regimes, the funding and arming right-wing militias and the propping up of dictators—get in the way of this mythology the response by most pundits is to wave away these inconsistencies (FAIR.org, 2/1/09), ignore them altogether (FAIR.org, 8/31/18) or spin them as Things That Are Actually Good (FAIR.org, 5/31/18).

There is, however, another underappreciated trope used to prop up this mythology: that the US political class does bad things, not because bad things serve US imperial interests, but because they’re corrupted by sinister foreign actors.

As more information about Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi’s brazen murder at the hands of the Saudi government comes to light, some in the US press are positioning Saudi Arabia as having “corrupted” Washington—as Khashoggi’s own editor lamented on Twitter last week. It’s a reassuring narrative, and one that will likely grow increasingly popular in the coming weeks: The Saudis have “corrupted,” “played” or “captured” an otherwise benevolent, values-based US government.

While it’s refreshing that some are starting to challenge the United States’ grotesque alliance with the Saudi theocratic monarchy, it’s important to note that it’s not a product of a foreign boogeyman, but core to the US imperial project. Historically, the US hasn’t embraced despotic regimes despite their oppressive nature, but precisely because of it.



NBC (10/17/18): “Longstanding economic and security ties with Saudi Arabia have forced the US to tolerate a lot of questionable Saudi behavior.”

In a report on why Khashoggi’s killing was unlikely to fundamentally alter the US/Saudi relationship, NBC News (10/17/18) casually threw out this highly contestable claim:

Adam Coogle, a Middle East researcher with Human Rights Watch, said the longstanding economic and security ties with Saudi Arabia have forced the US to tolerate a lot of questionable Saudi behavior.

It’s difficult to tell if the words spoken are those of Coogle or NBC reporters Rachel Elbaum, Yuliya Talmazan and Dan De Luce, but the reader is left with the same net effect: Due to “economic and security ties” somehow outside of its control, the most powerful country in the history of the world is “forced” to “tolerate” what’s called “questionable” behavior—a phrase that sweeps together the wholesale destruction of Yemen, the beheading of dissidents, the disappearing of women drivers and the brutal murder of Khashoggi. (In the case of Yemen, to “tolerate” means, among many other forms of active support, providing targeting instructions for a vicious airstrike campaign.)

Can one imagine NBC News or a Human Rights Watch researcher ever saying, “The longstanding economic and security ties Russia has with Syria have forced Putin to tolerate a lot of questionable behavior from Assad”? It’s an agency-free, blameless construction, reserved only for the United States. Similar to how the US never chooses to go to war, but is constantly “stumbling” into it (FAIR.org, 6/22/17), Washington always means well, but can’t help engaging in large-scale, highly sophisticated mechanized violence.

Vox’s Matt Yglesias (10/19/18) joined the revisionism, writing, “The realities of Cold War politics got us involved in deep, long-term cooperation with a Saudi state that is not otherwise a natural partner for the United States.” Never mind that the US/Saudi partnership predates the Cold War by about 15 years, the idea that dictators or sectarian regimes in the Middle East aren’t “natural partners of the United States”—especially during the Cold War—is a total fiction.



Vox (3/21/16): Saudi Arabia’s “authoritarian government, ultra-conservative values, and extremist-promoting foreign policy would seem like an unusual passion project for American foreign policy professionals.”

The trope of foreign corruption of the innocent empire, of course, predates Khashoggi’s death. Vox’s Max Fisher (3/21/16) insisted in March 2016 that Saudi Arabia has “captured” Washington, and this was the reason “we” had strayed from “our values.”

The article treated the US/Saudi alliance as some kind of mystery, rather than the logical outgrowth of a cynical empire that is not motivated by human rights but uses them for branding. “America’s foreign policy establishment has aligned itself with an ultra-conservative dictatorship that often acts counter to US values,” Fisher insisted. What “values” are those? He never really explained, but went on:

What explains the Washington consensus in favor of Wahhabist autocrats who often act counter to American values and interests? Some in the Obama administration, based on what they told the Atlantic (and on my own conversations with administration officials), seem to believe the answer is money: that Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Arab states have purchased loyalty and influence.

Obama administration officials who back Saudi crimes and sell them billions in arms aren’t to blame; it’s some nebulous Saudi lobby, Obama administration officials insist, with money that somehow they are powerless to resist.

Clearly Saudi money—like pro-Israel money—has influence around the margins (or else, one assumes, they wouldn’t spend it), but the idea that the US wouldn’t be backing violent dictatorships if it wasn’t corrupted by some sinister foreign actor has no historical or empirical basis. US backing of Saudi Arabia predates its current public relations machine by decades, a machine that exists largely to influence the scope and depth of the US/Saudi alliance, not the fact of it.

Fisher even vaguely acknowledges this (“no one is ordered by foreign funders to express a certain viewpoint. Rather, they described a subtler role, in which money amplifies preexisting norms and habits that favor a pro-Saudi consensus”), but this undercuts his thesis entirely—that Saudi Arabia somehow undermines America’s “values” rather than manifests them. But Fisher doesn’t appear to earnestly be trying to understand the nature of this alliance; he appears to be tasked, instead, with ameliorating cognitive dissonance, with preserving US human rights mythology by treating it as a foreign-contrived anomaly, rather than a natural extension of a largely violent and arbitrary global empire. Then comes the kicker:

US still provides direct support for Saudi actions that undermine the regional stability America desires, for example by backing the Yemen war against Americans’ better judgment.

What Americans? Where? The Obama White House at the time, as Fisher notes in the next paragraph, backed the war entirely. So who are these mysterious Americans whose “judgment” is against the Yemen war? He never says. These good, wholesome Americans who believe in US “values” are somehow never in charge, but are nonetheless always being corrupted by dastardly foreign actors.
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby Elvis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:23 pm

^^^^
Blaming Saudis for Corrupting Otherwise Human Rights–Loving US


Superb article, thanks.

"Stability? Of course we want stability. This war will bring it. We promise this time. Just this one more war. k? thanks."
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby Karmamatterz » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:47 pm

“The realities of Cold War politics got us involved in deep, long-term cooperation with a Saudi state that is not otherwise a natural partner for the United States.”


Oh lordy was that a good read. If I had read it in the morning I likely would have coughed up or spilled my coffee laughing at that above quote. Duarte, Pahlavi, Pinochet...etc..etc....would giggle if they could.
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:04 pm

Jamal Khashoggi's fiancee: Why I declined Trump's invitation

Hatice Cengiz speaks to Turkish TV and calls for punishment for all involved in his 'savage' murder.

8 hours ago
Hatice Cengiz (right) said she found herself in a darkness she cannot express after Jamal Khashoggi's (left) disappearance and killing [A News via AP]

The fiancee of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi has called for those responsible for his murder to be brought to justice, adding that she declined an invitation by US President Donald Trump to visit the White House.

Hatice Cengiz, a Turkish national, made the comments in an emotional interview with broadcaster Haberturk on Friday, her first TV appearance since Khashoggi's killing inside the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul more than three weeks ago.

"I demand that all those involved in this savagery from the highest to the lowest levels are punished and brought to justice," she said.

Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist and critic of Saudi Arabia's government, walked into the main entrance of the Saudi consulate at 1:14pm on October 2 to obtain paperwork for his upcoming marriage.

Cengiz said she waited outside the consulate for Khashoggi for more than 10 hours. But he never re-emerged.

Saudi Arabia denied any knowledge of Khashoggi's fate for more than two weeks, before claiming he was killed accidentally in a fight at the consulate. On Thursday, officials changed the kingdom's account again, saying the murder appears to have been premeditated.

Khashoggi's killing has spiralled into a major crisis for Saudi Arabia and its powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, with the kingdom's shifting narrative being met with scepticism in Turkey and other parts of the world.

Amid increasing international demands for accountability, Trump has vowed "severe punishment" if the Saudi government was found to be involved in the killing. He also said Saudi authorities had staged the "worst cover-up ever" over the case.

In her interview with the Turkish broadcaster, Cengiz said Trump has invited her to visit the White House but said she would not go until the US was sincere in its efforts to uncover the truth behind Khashoggi's killing.


Referring to Trump's invitation, she said: "I perceived it as a statement to win public favour".

'Darkness I cannot express'

Cengiz broke down in tears more than once as she spoke about Khashoggi, whom she described as a "patriot".

"I found myself in a darkness I cannot express," she said, describing the aftermath of Khashoggi's disappearance and death.

She told Haberturk she never would have let Khashoggi enter the consulate if she had thought that Saudi "authorities would hatch a plot" to kill him.

Khashoggi was not worried as he entered the building on October 2, she said, because he was treated well during a first visit to the consulate on September 28.

He also assumed Saudi authorities would not give him problems or arrest him in Turkey, she said.

"His local network in Turkey was very good, as you know, his political network as well," Cengiz told Haberturk.

"He thought Turkey is a safe country and if he would be held or interrogated, this issue would be swiftly solved."

She said that she had not been contacted by Saudi officials and added she was unlikely to go to Saudi Arabia for a possible funeral if Khashoggi's missing body is found.

Al Jazeera's Charles Stratford, reporting from Istanbul, said Cengiz's interview could be part of "Turkey's very well-choreographed effort to put more pressure on the Saudis".

Her account suggested "a plan had been put in place to lure him back to the embassy", he added.

Cengiz's television appearance came hours after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced the Saudi chief prosecutor will visit Istanbul on Sunday as part of the investigation into Khashoggi's death.

Speaking in Ankara, Erdogan, who has so far stopped short of directly blaming the Saudi government, called on Riyadh to reveal who ordered the killing and the whereabouts of Khashoggi's body.

He also said Turkey has other "information and evidence" about the killing, which it will release "when the time is right".
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/ ... 10532.html



Turkish president to Saudis on Jamal Khashoggi: 'You have to show us his body'

Hasan Dudar
Turkey's president wants Saudi Arabia to allow 18 suspects that it detained for the killing of murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi to be tried in Turkish courts, setting up further complications with the Saudi government. (Oct. 23) AP

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan pressed Saudi Arabia on Friday to reveal the whereabouts of slain Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s body as well as who ordered the killing of Khashoggi, a Washington Post columnist who was critical of the kingdom and lived in self-imposed exile in the United States.

“He’s dead and this is very clear, but where is his body?” Erdogan said, speaking through a translator on video while addressing to members of his Justice and Development Party. “You have to show us his body.”

Earlier in the week, reports in British, Chinese, and Russian media, all citing anonymous sources, said parts of Khashoggi's body were found at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, where he was last seen entering three weeks ago. In recent days, the focus of the search has turned to a well in the garden of the Saudi diplomatic compound. Authorities have also looked for Khashoggi's remains in a forest on the outskirts of Istanbul.

Jamal Khashoggi in a photo taken Dec. 15, 2014. The veteran Saudi journalist had gone missing after visiting the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2, 2018.
Jamal Khashoggi in a photo taken Dec. 15, 2014. The veteran Saudi journalist had gone missing after visiting the kingdom's consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2, 2018. (Photo: Mohammed Al-Shaikh, AFP/Getty Images)
Erdogan's comments Friday come days after he made similar demands in a speech before Turkey’s Parliament, in which he called on 18 suspects—all of whom are Saudi nationals—detained in Saudi Arabia to be extradited to Turkey to stand trial for what he's described as the premeditated and "savage" murder of Khashoggi.

On Thursday, Saudi Arabian officials called Khashoggi’s death a “premeditated murder” – the third time they have changed their account of the killing in as many weeks. The kingdom initially said Khashoggi left the Saudi consulate unharmed on Oct. 2. Amid mounting international outrage, the Saudi government then asserted last Friday that Khashoggi died after a "brawl" escalated inside the Saudi diplomatic facility.

Saudi Arabia’s top brass have tried to distance themselves from the murder, blaming it on a "rogue operation" and denying that the kingdom’s de facto ruler Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi’s death.

“There obviously was a tremendous mistake made, and what compounded the mistake was the attempt to try to cover up,” Saudi Foreign Minister Adel Al-Jubeir told Fox News on Sunday. “That is unacceptable in any government."

"We are determined to punish those who are responsible for this murder," Al-Jubeir said. "The individuals who did this did this outside the scope of their authority."

Read More:

Khashoggi entered the Saudi consulate three weeks ago for routine paperwork needed to marry his Turkish fiancée and was reported missing soon after.

The details of what happened from the time Khashoggi entered the compound to the moment of his death remain unknown. Over the past three weeks, audio recordings have been leaked to Turkish media that purport to reveal how Khashoggi was killed. And reports based on those yet unreleased audio files give a gruesome account alleging that Khashoggi was tortured and decapitated.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (Photo: Saudi Royal Palace via AFP/Getty Images)

Media reports say that CIA Director Gina Haspel listened to audio recordings of Khashoggi's murder when she was in Turkey earlier this week.

In his address on Friday, Erdogan said that Turkey may have “other evidence” regarding Khashoggi's killing and that it will eventually reveal this information amid the ongoing investigation.

The chief prosecutors of Turkey and Saudi Arabia are expected to meet on Monday.

Kim Hjelmgaard, Deirdre Shesgreen and David Jackson contributed to this report.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 776691002/
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby chump » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:06 pm

Fwiw:


https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=53692

Claim: Khashoggi Was Going to Expose Saudi Use of Chemical Weapons in Yemen

October 28th, 2018

Via: Express

Last night a close friend of Mr Khashoggi revealed that he was about to obtain “documentary evidence” proving clams that Saudi Arabia had used chemical weapons in its proxy war in Yemen.

“I met him a week before his death. He was unhappy and he was worried,“ said the middle eastern academic, who did not wish to be named.

“When I asked him why he was worried, he didn’t really want to reply, but eventually he told me he was getting proof that Saudi Arabia had used chemical weapons. He said he hoped he be getting documentary evidence.

“All I can tell you is that the next thing I heard, he was missing.”
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:43 pm

.

Carnage and a famine threatening 12 million lives continue in the Saudi Arabian invasion of Yemen, backed by the United States, armed by the United States. At home, the Kingdom prepares the execution of 14 men for protesting and blogging. One of them was 17 when he was arrested, just before he was due to attend university in Michigan. Yesterday a secret court deliberated on the fate of Israa al-Ghomgham, a Shiite woman facing death for human rights activism. Death squads will not behead these victims in a foreign capital by surprise, and so the world is unlikely to pay much attention when they are murdered. Soon Kashoggi's fate may be called old news, and those who ordered his murder will still rule. Have you wondered why you've been hearing for more than a year that the casualties in Yemen number 10,000? The number never seems to rise. This is because it is a lie. Another lie is that this is a "proxy war." Iran is not involved. Iran is not arming the Houthi rebellion. That is only the pretext. This is a war of aggression, an illegal invasion of the region's poorest country by its richest. United States assets are in the air every day, refueling and supporting the Saudi-owned bombers. U.S. satellites provide targeting information. The bombers were built in the United States. The profit from this war flows to America.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/10/29 ... ity/print/

- http://www.counterpunch.org - https://www.counterpunch.org -


The Death Toll in Yemen is Five Times Higher Than We Think…How Much Longer Will We Shrug Off Responsibility?

By Patrick Cockburn
October 29, 2018


One reason Saudi Arabia and its allies are able to avoid a public outcry over their intervention in the war in Yemen, is that the number of people killed in the fighting has been vastly understated. The figure is regularly reported as 10,000 dead in three-and-a-half years, a mysteriously low figure given the ferocity of the conflict.

Now a count by a non-partisan group has produced a study demonstrating 56,000 people have been killed in Yemen since early 2016. The number is increasing by more than 2,000 per month as fighting intensifies around the Red Sea port of Hodeidah. It does not include those dying of malnutrition, or diseases such as cholera.

“We estimate the number killed to be 56,000 civilians and combatants between January 2016 and October 2018,” says Andrea Carboni, who researches Yemen for the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED), an independent group formerly associated with the University of Sussex that studies conflicts and is focusing attention on the real casualty level. He told me he expects a total of between 70,000 and 80,000 victims, when he completes research into the casualties, hitherto uncounted, who died between the start of the Saudi-led intervention in the Yemen civil war, in March 2015, and the end of that year.

The oft-cited figure of 10,000 dead comes from a UN official speaking only of civilians in early 2017, and has remained static since. This out of date statistic, drawn from Yemen’s patchy and war-damaged health system, has enabled Saudi Arabia and the UAE – who lead a coalition of states strongly backed by the US, UK and France – to ignore or downplay the loss of life.

Casualties are rising by the day as Saudi and UAE-directed forces try to cut off Hodeidah – the last port controlled by the Houthi rebels – from the capital, Sanaa. Oxfam said this week, a civilian is being killed every three hours in the fighting, and between 1 August and 15 October, 575 civilians were killed in the port city, including 136 children and 63 women. An airstrike on Wednesday killed 16 civilians in a vegetable market in Hodeidah, and other strikes this month have hit two buses at a Houthi-held checkpoint, killing 15 civilians, including four children.

Little information about casualties in Yemen reaches the outside world because Saudi and the UAE make access difficult for foreign journalists and other impartial witnesses. By contrast to the war in Syria, the American, British and French governments have no interest in highlighting the devastation caused in Yemen – they give diplomatic cover to the Saudi intervention. But their deliberate blindness to the death of so many Yemenis is starting to attract more negative attention, as a byproduct of the flood of international criticism of Saudi Arabia in the wake of the premeditated murder of Jamal Khashoggi – now admitted by Saudi officials – in Istanbul on 2 October.

The absence of credible figures for the death toll in Yemen has made it easier for foreign powers to shrug off accusations they are complicit in a human disaster. That is despite frantic appeals from senior UN officials to the organisation’s Security Council to avert a manmade famine which now threatens 14 million Yemenis – half the population.

The crisis has worsened because of the siege of Hodeidah – with the city a lifeline for aid and commercial imports – since mid June, a situation that has forced 570,000 people to flee their homes. UN humanitarian affairs chief Mark Lowcock warned on 23 October “the immune systems of millions of people on survival support for years on end are now literally collapsing, making them – especially the elderly – more likely to succumb to malnutrition, cholera and other diseases”.

Just how many people die because they are weakened by hunger is difficult to know accurately, because most of the deaths happen at home and are unrecorded. This is particularly true of Yemen, where half the meagre health facilities no longer function, and people are often too poor to use those that do.

Loss of life from fighting should be easier to record and publicise, and the fact this has not happened in Yemen is a sign of the lack of interest by the international community in the conflict. Carboni says ACLED has been able to tally the number of civilians and combatants killed in ground fighting and bombing by drawing on the Yemeni press and, to a lesser extent, international media. ACLED has used these sources, after carefully assessing their credibility, to calculate the number of fatalities. Where figures differ, the group uses lower estimates and favours the claims of those who suffered casualties, over those who say they inflicted them.

It is difficult to distinguish between civilian targets that are deliberately attacked, and non-combatants who died because they were caught in the crossfire, or were close to a military unit or facility when hit.

A study by Professor Martha Mundy – Strategies of the Coalition in the Yemen War: Aerial Bombardment and Food War – concludes the Saudi-led bombing campaign deliberately targeted food production and storage facilities. Some 220 fishing boats have been destroyed on Yemen’s Red Sea coast and the fish catch is down by half.

ACLED began counting casualties after the war was under way, which is why it is only now researching loss of life in 2015, with its findings due to be published in January or February.

Carboni adds, the trend is for the number of people being killed to rise. The monthly total before December 2017 was fewer than 2,000 casualties, but since then it has always been more than 2,000. Almost all those who died are Yemenis, though the figures also include 1,000 Sudanese troops killed fighting on behalf of the Saudi coalition.

The Khashoggi affair has led to greater international focus on the calamitous war in Yemen, and the role of Saudi Arabia and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in the conflict. But there is no sign of the US, Britain or France curtailing military assistance to the kingdom and the UAE, despite the likelihood the coalition will fail to win a decisive victory.

The true “butcher’s bill” in the Yemen war has taken too long to emerge, but it may help to increase pressure on outside powers to stop the killing.

We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby The Consul » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:00 am

To imagine this could be worse than Syria is all the more reason to gloss it over. Conssidering what is happening and what may well unfold leaves me speechless.

Several hundred thousand children too weak to cry. There is no part of that you can let sink in because it is inconceivable.
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:00 pm

.

Conceivably relevant: Saudi sisters reportedly applying for asylum found dead under suspicious circumstances in New York.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31955&start=435
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:15 pm

The Consul » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:00 am wrote:To imagine this could be worse than Syria is all the more reason to gloss it over. Conssidering what is happening and what may well unfold leaves me speechless.

Several hundred thousand children too weak to cry. There is no part of that you can let sink in because it is inconceivable.


There is one main reason the Western corporate media have glossed this over in comparison to Syria, or at any rate compared to the atrocities committed by the government side in Syria. You know it, I know it, it's always worth spelling out. "Our" governments are direct perpetrators in the murder of Yemen. Not only enablers, or supporters, or profiteers -- all of that, of course -- but also direct participants, deploying their own military assets in keeping the war of aggression going. "Our" governments have the power to end it overnight. Ending it would mean making peace and interrupting arms sales. That is a bad result, in the view of "our" governments. Ending it would probably work to stabilize the international political situation in the region, and may help prevent future carnage. That is a neutral to bad result. Ending it would effectively acknowledge that there is a much worse regime in the region than the Iranian. That is very bad. Unlike the Syrian government's atrocities (as you know the Western corporate media are less forthcoming about atrocities by the "rebel" side), ending the Saudi-UAE invasion of Yemen would not involve invading the country with more foreign forces and bombing it. It would mean a victory for diplomacy and neutrality over war and military intervention, for a region the interventionists have targeted for decades. That is at best a neutral to bad result.

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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby Karmamatterz » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 pm

There is one main reason the Western corporate media have glossed this over in comparison to Syria, or at any rate compared to the atrocities committed by the government side in Syria.


Well, you know, it's always about the Russians. Russia is involved in Syria so they damn well better cover Putin and his atrocities! Everything in your full post is true. God forbid the U.S. media actually report straight up on war crimes and atrocities our own nation is involved with. For that matter, I'm surprised the war in Yemen hasn't gotten some decent coverage just for the fact that Trump is partly responsible for our involvement. On top of that, if the president wanted the war stopped, or at least our involvement he could make it happen pronto.

The U.S. military was not fond of the fact the Al Anad base was taken by rebels early on. Regardless if Saudi forces retook the installation, the Pentagon had to be pissed and holds a grudge.
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby elfismiles » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:19 pm

Image10/28/18 Gareth Porter on U.S. Relations with Saudi Arabia
by Scott | Oct 30, 2018 | Interviews

Scott interviews Gareth Porter on his latest article for Middle East Eye, in which he explains that there’s enough pressure now, following the death of Jamal Khashoggi, for the United States to back down a little in our relationship with Saudi Arabia. Porter doesn’t imagine a drastic cutting of ties, but he is confident something will have to change. Unfortunately, too much of our foreign policy is controlled by interests in the arms industry, particularly drone bombers these days, for a little bit of public backlash to completely upend our presence in the Middle East.

Discussed on the show:

“A chance for the US to distance itself from Saudi Arabia” (Middle East Eye)
Jamal Khashoggi
“Lockheed Stock and Two Smoking Barrels” (CorpWatch)
Khobar Towers bombing
“10/28/18 Lecture for the Committee for Responsible Foreign Policy” (Libertarian Institute)
“The Crown Prince of Riyadh vs. The Crown Prince of Jihad” (War on the Rocks)
“The Khashoggi Affair and the Future of Saudi Arabia” (Consortium News)

– Advertisement –

Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist on the national security state, and author of Manufactured Crisis: The Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare. Follow him on Twitter @GarethPorter and listen to Gareth’s previous appearances on the Scott Horton Show.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Kesslyn Runs, by Charles Featherstone; NoDev NoOps NoIT, by Hussein Badakhchani; The War State, by Mike Swanson; WallStreetWindow.com; Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Inc.; Zen Cash; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; and LibertyStickers.com.

Check out Scott’s Patreon page.
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Podcast: Play in new window | Download
http://dissentradio.com/radio/18_10_26_porter.mp3

https://scotthorton.org/interviews/10-2 ... di-arabia/
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby elfismiles » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:23 pm

Saudi Massacre in Yemen Worse Than Estimated. Will Congress Finally Speak Up?
Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams Posted on October 30, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nodzPfq0yBA

According to a new study by the University of Sussex, the 10,000 civilian dead in the Yemen war is hugely understated. The actual number of civilians killed since the Saudi attacks started in 2015 may be as high as 80,000. And on top of that, 50,000 children die each year from preventable illnesses related to the war. Why does the US continue to act as an accomplice in this massacre? Will Congress finally step up and put a stop to it? Tune in to today’s Ron Paul Liberty Report:

Reprinted from The Ron Paul Institute for Peace & Prosperity.
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2018/10/30 ... -speak-up/
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:09 am

Saudi crown prince described journalist as a dangerous Islamist in call with White House, officials say

Carol D. Leonnig

November 1 at 11:40 AM
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman described slain journalist Jamal Khashoggi as a dangerous Islamist days after his disappearance in a phone call with President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner and national security adviser John Bolton, according to people familiar with the discussion.

In the call, which occurred before the kingdom publicly acknowledged Khashoggi’s death, the crown prince urged Kushner and Bolton to preserve the U.S.-Saudi alliance and said the journalist was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, a group long opposed by Bolton and other senior Trump officials.

The attempt to criticize Khashoggi in private stands in contrast to the Saudi government’s later public statements decrying his death as a “terrible mistake” and “terrible tragedy.”

“The incident that happened is very painful, for all Saudis,” Mohammed, the kingdom’s de facto leader, said during a panel discussion last week. “The incident is not justifiable.”

The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Khalid bin Salman, described Khashoggi last month as a “friend” who dedicated “a great portion of his life to serve his country.”

In a statement released to The Washington Post, Khashoggi’s family called the characterization of the columnist as a dangerous Islamist inaccurate.

“Jamal Khashoggi was not a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. He denied such claims repeatedly over the past several years,” the family said. “Jamal Khashoggi was not a dangerous person in any way possible. To claim otherwise would be ridiculous.”

A person familiar with the discussion said Bolton did not signal that he endorsed the crown prince’s characterization of Khashoggi during the call.

A Saudi official denied Wednesday that the crown prince made the allegations, saying that “routine calls do exist from time to time” between the young leader and top U.S. officials but that “no such commentary was conveyed.”

Saudi Arabia has faced international condemnation for its shifting accounts of Khashoggi’s disappearance Oct. 2 at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul.

The kingdom initially said Khashoggi walked out of the consulate unharmed but then said Saudi agents had accidentally killed him in a fistfight, and more recently announced that it had evidence that his killing was “premeditated.”

Analysts said the crown prince’s efforts to discredit Khashoggi in private suggested a two-faced attempt at damage control.

“This is character assassination added to premeditated murder,” said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA official who is a scholar at the Brookings Institution.

The White House declined to discuss sensitive conversations with the Saudis or say how many phone calls the crown prince and Kushner have had since Khashoggi’s disappearance. Mohammed has spoken to Kushner multiple times, according to people familiar with the matter, but the most recent call with Bolton and Kushner happened Oct. 9.

Officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive topic.

[Crown prince Mohammed bin Salman is ‘chief of the tribe’ in a cowed House of Saud]

Other Middle East leaders have come to the crown prince’s defense. In recent days, Egyptian President Abdel Fatah al-Sissi and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have reached out to the Trump administration to express support for the crown prince, arguing that he is an important strategic partner in the region, said people familiar with the calls.

Israel, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates have united behind the Trump administration’s efforts to bring pressure on Iran and force through a Middle East peace deal between the Israelis and Palestinians.

Other U.S. allies, notably Germany, Britain and France, have voiced serious concern about what happened to Khashoggi, who wrote opinion articles critical of the Saudi leadership in The Washington Post.

The Trump administration revoked the visas or made travel ineligible for 21 Saudi nationals implicated by Turkey and Saudi Arabia in Khashoggi’s death.

As U.S. officials contemplate a more robust response, Kushner has emphasized the importance of the U.S.-Saudi alliance in the region, said people familiar with the conversations.

Other officials at the State Department and Pentagon, however, have said the options under consideration could include a clear discipline of the Saudi government or a demand to end the Saudi-led blockade of Qatar or wind down the war in Yemen. Officials cautioned that no decision has been made, and Trump has expressed little desire to significantly alter U.S.-Saudi relations, but there is an interest in a full vetting of the potential options.

Kushner’s efforts to carefully cultivate a relationship with the heir to the Saudi throne make him a critical voice in deciding the Trump administration’s response. After several private talks early in the administration, Kushner championed Mohammed as a reformer poised to usher the ultraconservative, oil-rich monarchy into modernity. Kushner privately argued for months last year that Mohammed would be key to crafting a Middle East peace plan, and that with the prince’s blessing, much of the Arab world would follow.

It was Kushner who pushed his father-in-law to make his first foreign trip as president to Riyadh, against objections from then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and warnings from Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. In the early days of the administration, Kushner often preferred to talk to the crown prince privately but now coordinates his conversations with the National Security Council.

Kushner visited the crown prince at his palace in a secret October 2017 trip, a plan so closely held that it caught some White House and intelligence officials by surprise.

The two 30-somethings stayed up late into the evening alone discussing the prospects of Kushner’s Middle East peace plan. A few days later, the prince ordered the house arrest of dozens of rival royals and imprisonment of other enemies in a bid to solidify his control of the government. The White House and the Saudis have denied Kushner approved the power grab.

Saudi officials had made no secret of their antipathy toward Khashoggi, including expressing consternation last year when he began writing a regular column for The Post. In the days after his disappearance — before the Saudis acknowledged his death in Istanbul — a person close to the royal palace said Mohammed was puzzled by the high level of concern about Khashoggi, whom he considered part of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as an agent of Qatar.

Khashoggi’s family said his views were much more nuanced than those described by Saudi officials. “Although he sympathized with certain objectives of the Muslim Brotherhood, he also sharply disagreed with many of their positions, especially toward Saudi Arabia,” the family said in its statement.

Saudi Arabia severed relations with Qatar last year, charging among other things that it harbored Muslim Brotherhood “terrorists.” Although the Saudis maintained a cordial relationship with the Brotherhood for decades after its founding in Egypt as an Islamist political and social movement, Riyadh declared it a terrorist organization after the upheavals of the Arab Spring.

Many Republican lawmakers and Middle East analysts on the right agreed with the Saudi assessment — in 2015, Rep. Mike Pompeo of Kansas, now Trump’s secretary of state, co-sponsored a resolution calling on the State Department to designate the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization. During Trump’s campaign, several prominent supporters, including Bolton, called for such a designation.

Egypt’s Sissi, whose military government overthrew an elected Muslim Brotherhood-allied government in 2013, and Israel’s political right share that view.

Trump considered such an action early in his administration but was dissuaded by Pompeo, who had become CIA director, and others in the administration. They noted that while the designation would please some Arab partners, others in the region would reject it. The Brotherhood has mainstream political stature and legitimacy in Jordan, Turkey and Morocco, among other countries.

Turkish President Recep Tay­yip Erdogan, a rival of the Saudi crown prince, has called for Saudi Arabia to be held accountable for the killing. Erdogan called Trump on Thursday to talk about a handful of issues including the Khashoggi investigation, according to people familiar with the conversation, but neither government acknowledged in official readouts of the call that the investigation was discussed.

Karen DeYoung and Tom Hamburger contributed to this report.

Correction: An earlier version of this story misstated the year in which a Muslim Brotherhood-allied government was overthrown in Egypt. It was 2013, not 2011.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 100c9c9073
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Re: Khashoggi Disappearance

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:26 am


Erdogan points finger at Saudi 'puppet masters' in Khashoggi case

Turkish president says Riyadh has many questions to answer over the assassination of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

11 hours ago

Erdogan accused 'certain Saudi officials' of covering up the true account of Khashoggi's killing [File: AP]
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said the order for journalist Jamal Khashoggi's killing came from the "highest levels" of the Saudi government, but that he does not believe King Salman was to blame.

In an opinion piece published by US newspaper The Washington Post on Friday, Erdogan called on Saudi Arabia to answer outstanding questions concerning the 59-year-old's assassination last month.

"We must reveal the identities of the puppet masters behind Khashoggi's killing," Erdogan said, adding that Ankara had "moved heaven and earth to shed light on all aspects of this case".

"We are shocked and saddened by the efforts of certain Saudi officials to cover up Khashoggi's premeditated murder, rather than serve the cause of justice, as our friendship would require," he said.

Khashoggi, a former Washington Post columnist and critic of the powerful Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, also known as MBS, was killed in the kingdom's consulate in the Turkish city of Istanbul on October 2. His body remains missing.

On Wednesday, a Turkish prosecutor said Khashoggi was strangled and dismembered soon after entering the building.

Turkish media outlets have named 15 Saudi suspects who flew flew into Istanbul and left on the same day the journalist was last seen.

Faltering probe

Khashoggi's murder has provoked international condemnation and sparked intense media scrutiny.

A joint Turkish and Saudi probe into his fate has made little progress to date, however.

The Saudis have also launched their own investigation, vowing to "uncover every stone" and "punish" those who are responsible.

On Friday, Erdogan expressed dismay that Khashoggi's body has not been found and urged Saudi officials to explain who ordered the killing and identify the "local collaborator" to whom Saudi officials said they handed over his remains.

"Unfortunately, the Saudi authorities have refused to answer those questions," Erdogan said.

In an apparent sign of cooperation, a top Saudi prosecutor flew to Turkey on Sunday and met with Istanbul's chief prosecutor a day later.

Turkey's justice minister has since accused the Saudis of failing to answer questions regarding the case, however.

"Though Riyadh has detained 18 suspects, it is deeply concerning that no action has been taken against the Saudi consul general, who lied through his teeth to the media and fled Turkey shortly afterwards," Erdogan said.

"Likewise, the refusal of the Saudi public prosecutor - who recently visited his counterpart in Istanbul - to cooperate with the investigation and answer even simple questions is very frustrating. His invitation of Turkish investigators to Saudi Arabia for more talks about the case felt like a desperate and deliberate stalling tactic," he added.

'This is foreign policy'

Etyen Mahcupyan, a Turkish political analyst and former adviser to ex-Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, said Erdogan had tried to take an aggressive stance in his op-ed while keeping one eye on maintaining good relations with Riyadh.

"He doesn't want to disrupt everything and lose Saudi Arabia," Mahcupyan said.

"He's kind of threatening Saudi Arabia, maybe blackmailing a bit in a soft way, but he's giving the message that Turkey wants to go on with having good relations with Saudi Arabia," he added.

"It gives leverage to Turkey to be used by Erdogan, but it's not something very ideological or something that will cost him his principles. This is foreign policy."

At points, Erdogan also displayed more conciliatory language in the op-ed, stressing the "friendly relations" between Ankara and Riyadh and stating that he had "no reason to believe that this murder reflected Saudi Arabia's official policy".

He previously accused Saudi officials of pre-planning Khashoggi's murder days in advance of October 2 and said Turkish authorities have gathered more evidence, which will be made public "when the time comes".

'Keeping Khashoggi in the headlines'

Hilal Kaplan, a columnist at pro-government Turkish newspaper Daily Sabah, said that Erdogan's piece was part of his attempt to keep the Khashoggi case in the international spotlight.

She noted that Turkey has consistently shed light on many details in the case by ensuring information was steadily leaked to the media over the past month.

"With this communications strategy, Turkey was able to control the narrative and keep the Khashoggi murder in the headlines while the public debate continued as the investigation moved along," Kaplan said.

"This pressured the Saudis to accept the fact that this was a premeditated murder," she added.

"They were in flat denial at first, but then after changing their story several times, they had to accept [this fact]."

Kaplan added that although Erdogan didn't mention the crown prince's name, the Turkish president implied in the op-ed that MBS was responsible for ordering Khashoggi's killing.

"The crown prince most probably knew about this, he ordered this. At least five of the 15 members of the death squad are in the royal guard. And the head of the death squad, [reportedly] made four calls to MBS' office on the day of the murder," she said.

"All evidence points to him, not anyone else."

US media reported on Thursday that MBS described Khashoggi as a "dangerous Islamist" in a phone call with Jared Kushner and John Bolton, US President Donald Trump's son-in-law and national security adviser respectively, days after Khashoggi's disappearance and before Saudi Arabia publicly acknowledged his killing.

Kaplan said that the call, which was reported by the New York Times and The Washington Post, was an attempt by MBS to justify the killing of Khashoggi.

Saudi Arabia has denied the veracity of the reports.

Trump, who has described the Saudi handling of Khashoggi's killing as "the worst cover-up ever" suggested last week that MBS bears ultimate responsibility for the operation that led to the murder of the journalist.

When questioned about the crown prince's possible involvement during an interview with US newspaper The Wall Street Journal, Trump said "the prince is running things over there more so at this stage".

"He's running things and so if anybody were going to be, it would be him," he said.

Saudi officials have denied MBS had any knowledge of Khashoggi's killing or its subsequent cover-up.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/ ... 49836.html
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