French Uprising of December 2018

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby Rory » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:19 pm

IMG_20181210_131831.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Rory
 
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:47 pm

A FRIEND FROM ELSEWHERE: you do understand the argument isn't that the protests are a Russian creation. the argument is that peaceful protests were hijacked by Russia, which also introduced violence. peaceful protest is normal in France. violent clashes, delegitimize macron, empowers Le Pen, and furthers the break up of the eu. Putin doesn't need all of these all at once, any little bit helps him.


ME:

1/7. I can understand what you are saying, but it describes a universe different from my own perception of what is happening in France. It describes a France unlike any France I've ever perceived. In the France I perceive, peaceful and also militant protest that may lead to "violence" (more often: violent state repression engendering violent response) are totally normal, and happen pretty much annually.

2. I suspect these guys and other less obvious ones in black hoods have more to do with causing the worst of the "violence" -- probably including most of the (staged) looting and burning -- than do the actual protesters. They are the paid counter-protesters, so to speak. To borrow a Bush-era joke, did you know the French do not have a word for agents provocateurs?

Image

3. But the fact is the French public do not appear at all to share in your perception in which there are good peaceful and bad violent protesters. They support the uprising. When uprisings occur, the state violence to suppress these hits everyone, and tends to be the force that is also in effect organizing the counter-violence of protesters. For stirring up anger and new militant protests, the images of what state agents did to those high school students are worth a trillion tweets attributed to "Russians."

4. And where did this idea that "Russians" might be involved come from? How is it that "Russians" are now invoked for every damn action against the neoliberal establishment that happens on two continents, from #BLM to the yellow jackets? In this case, it is the French state that announced it really wants to investigate a Russian connection - and most of the French people who are laughing, laughing. This counterpropaganda about Russian control was already used back when the PCF was on the rise in the 1940s, you know that? It was used against the 1968ers and the 1980s European anti-nuclear protests.

5. Le Pen opposes a rise in the minimum wage. Odds are she would have in office supported a cut in the wealth tax, though she probably would not have tried the equivalent of a head tax, which is what Macron lyingly did in the name of "ecology." (Did you know his ecology minister resigned months ago protesting that Macron's government was full of bullshit.) The yellow jackets are not party organized, but so far most of the political benefit (if that's what matters) has gone to Melenchon and the left.

6. People in the EU countries have problems with the EU for good reason, with no relation to Russia. If you want to end the forces tearing the EU apart, you should support the end of its insane neoliberalism and austerity policy. Corbyn said the right thing in Portugal last week when he said he was all for a Europe that turns back to socialism and away from neoliberalism. The best chance for Europe is not Macron and a return of the Blairites, but new elections in France and Britain that bring real socialists to power against the neoliberal establishments.

7. Damn it, the current events create a Google fog so that I can't find a link to that time when French farmers burned a regional parliament, which was in the early 21st century. Found loads of cases of French political riots, most often by farmers and provincials, often involving fire, directed against government measures such as subsidy cuts. None of this was attributed to Russians!

American Dream » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 am wrote:Certainly Aleksandr Dugin is a big cheerleader, whatever various participants think of that.


Now the following is merely to illustrate your accustomed brand of logic, for all the fat good it will do given your covert fanaticism in the guise of sincere concern: Macron's supporters include Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair, and France's own BHL, who wasted no time in branding them the "Brown Vests." What do you make of that? YOU MUST TELL US OR WE WILL ASSUME YOU ARE DOWN WITH THEM!!! Do you join them in supporting the war on Iraq in 2003? Do you support the Troika program for Greece? Are you for the French ban on head coverings? Do you agree Israel needs to bomb Gaza and shoot the border protesters as a matter of self-defense? Quick! Answer or we'll have to conclude the worst!!!

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15317
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:20 pm

JackRiddler » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:47 pm wrote:

[...]

American Dream » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:32 am wrote:Certainly Aleksandr Dugin is a big cheerleader, whatever various participants think of that.


Now the following is merely to illustrate your accustomed brand of logic, for all the fat good it will do given your covert fanaticism in the guise of sincere concern: Macron's supporters include Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair, and France's own BHL, who wasted no time in branding them the "Brown Vests." What do you make of that? YOU MUST TELL US OR WE WILL ASSUME YOU ARE DOWN WITH THEM!!! Do you join them in supporting the war on Iraq in 2003? Do you support the Troika program for Greece? Are you for the French ban on head coverings? Do you agree Israel needs to bomb Gaza and shoot the border protesters as a matter of self-defense? Quick! Answer or we'll have to conclude the worst!!!

.


So we'll have to conclude the worst, then. Which we have extremely good reason to do in any case, even if and when American Dream's dependably evasive one-line "answer" arrives.

Just by the way: It takes a very special kind of, er, Leftist Thinker to insinuate that stillrobertpaulsen was in fact Robert Parry in disguise (and was therefore defending Parry against AD's aspersions).

That whole page is well worth checking out, and before & beyond. It takes time, yes, but it also saves time. It's instructive.

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... &start=150

Be careful not to "trigger" (sic) the self-described "Ukrainian person of color" (sic) American Dream by suggesting or even suspecting that he might not be what he says he is.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

26 March 2020: US Space Force NatSec Rocket Launch

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedKahina
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 9876
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby liminalOyster » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:57 pm

4. And where did this idea that "Russians" might be involved come from? How is it that "Russians" are now invoked for every damn action against the neoliberal establishment that happens on two continents, from #BLM to the yellow jackets? In this case, it is the French state that announced it really wants to investigate a Russian connection - and most of the French people who are laughing, laughing. This counterpropaganda about Russian control was already used back when the PCF was on the rise in the 1940s, you know that? It was used against the 1968ers and the 1980s European anti-nuclear protests.


Fuck - "it" was used against Obama in 2008 via Acorn and Ayers and Jeremiah Wright etc. The very use of that machine was one of the only reasons I thought O might actually be a threat to something or other. Also used in Ferguson. I esp. I have always loved the fundamental implication of the KGB did US anti-war stuff which is basically - it's inconceivable that there are humans who oppose war.
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
User avatar
liminalOyster
 
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby American Dream » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:06 pm

I should be very clear that I'm cautiously hopeful for this uprising, definitively against cooperation with far right elements and that, while Aleksandr Dugin is a real piece of work- and a legitimate topic of deep political inquiry- I know of no good evidence that Russian instigation is a major factor in happenings there.
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby American Dream » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:20 pm

The Yellow Vests and the carbon wars

In a follow-up piece, "Fighting for the Soul of the Yellow Vest Movement," CrimethInc asks: "If far-right groups can hijack movements, as they did in Ukraine and Brazil, can anti-capitalists and anti-authoritarians reorient them towards more systemic solutions?" They draw an analogy to the 2011 Occupy movement in the US, where right-populists also played for influence, but ultimately "anarchists and other militant opponents of capitalism and white supremacy seized the initiative, especially in Occupy Oakland, focusing the movement on confronting the root causes of poverty and ensuring that many of the people who were radicalized during Occupy adopted emancipatory rather than reactionary politics."

We aren't so sure that Occupy Wall Street had such consistently good politics (although Occupy Oakland was assuredly in the vanguard). We also aren't so sure that Ukraine's Maidan movement was so thoroughly reactionary. But the reality remains: In France today, as in Ukraine in 2014 and New York and Oakland in 2011, the challenge is to reject fuzzy populism that can be exploited by the far right and advance a revolutionary position. In this case, that means a ruthless critique rather than consumerist embrace of the car culture that has been imposed by urban planners, and a recognition of the criticality of addressing the planetary climate crisis—but also intransigently demanding that the costs of transition to a carbon-free future not be borne by the working class.

The coming weeks will be decisive, and how this struggle within the Yellow Vests plays out has implications that go far beyond the borders of France.


https://countervortex.org/node/16177
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:39 pm

Possibly OT, possibly related, possibly a reprise of the Berlin Christmas Market Attack of 2014 * :

BREAKING: Strasbourg shooting: Gunman at large after two killed and 11 injured

4 minutes ago

Two people have been killed and 11 others wounded in a shooting in the eastern French city of Strasbourg.

The gunman, known to security services, is on the run [...]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46530265


* The ongoing subject of a commission of inquiry (Untersuchungsausschuss) started in July of this year.

Defective investigation and obstruction of justice On 17 May 2017 the Interior Ministry of Berlin stated that already in November 2016 intelligence was given that Anis Amri was involved in criminal offenses concerning drug trafficking. On this basis authorities would have been able to apprehend Amri already at the time, however they did not. An investigation was launched trying to find out to what extent these informations were withheld by the State Criminal Police Office of Berlin after the attack happened.[110] Several days later, while the investigation for obstruction of justice was still going on, a speaker of the Interior Ministry said that manipulations of the file of Amri have been carried out by officers of the criminal investigation department after the attack.[111] On 22 May 2017 a commission of inquiry was initiated starting in July. Meanwhile, a special prosecuter was appointed to the case.[112] In addition to the ongoing investigation concerning manipulations of the file and withholding of information, national TV reported on 1 June, that officers who were ordered by an investigating judge in Berlin to observe Amri until October 2016 for criminal offenses and possible terrorist links did not do so and instead included untrue records regarding observating actions in his file.[113]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berl ... of_justice
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

26 March 2020: US Space Force NatSec Rocket Launch

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedKahina
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 9876
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby DrEvil » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:58 pm

elfismiles » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 pm wrote:Haven't verified this news that's coming through various AJ outlets ...

Armoured Vehicles Bearing EU Flag Storm Paris in Sign of European Army Already Created

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XYpr9vwJC4

Grand
Published on Dec 10, 2018
ARMOURED vehicles bearing the European Union flag have stormed into Paris as protesters bring the city to a standstill.


That could just be that the vehicles were funded through a EU program. I've seen those kinds of stickers before on computers that were funded that way.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3014
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:16 pm

*cough* La bonne vieille question de savoir à qui profite le crime...

The shooting happened close to a Christmas market in one of the central squares, Place Kléber.

...

Image

Police said the suspect was already known to the security services as a possible terrorist threat.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46530265


Déjà-vu?

"Meretricious." "And a Happy New Year."
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

26 March 2020: US Space Force NatSec Rocket Launch

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedKahina
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 9876
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:21 pm

Earlier today I was thinking this was going to happen.

Just saying.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15317
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby chump » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:53 pm


http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/2018/ ... gXmas.html

Tuesday, December 11, 2018

Strasburg Christmas Market Shooting

Image


[…]

Four persons have been killed and 11 injured in a shooting near a Christmas market in the French city of Strasbourg.

The killing allegedly took place at Place Kléber near the city’s Christmas market, which draws millions of tourists every year. This is according to the early reports, although later reports are saying the shootings have taken place in the city's center. The confusion is caused by the fact the gunman, known to police, shoot at different locations around the Christmas market area.

The interior ministry described the incident as a “serious security event” and warned the public to stay indoors.

Image

This is located 20 minutes from the European Union Parliament in Strasbourg.

Traditionally, a huge fir tree (30 m) coming from the Vosges mountains is erected every year on the south west of the Place Kléber and inhabitants deposited gifts for the poors. During the Marché de Noël ("Christmas market"), the booths of 50 charitable associations make the Village du Partage ("village for sharing").

[… con’d]
User avatar
chump
 
Posts: 2261
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby Grizzly » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:30 pm

¡¡¡ɹoɹɹǝʇ ɹoɹɹǝʇ ɹoɹɹǝʇ
If Barthes can forgive me, “What the public wants is the image of passion Justice, not passion Justice itself.”
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 3217
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:07 am

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=w ... yBoroPcu-c

^Link to pdf map of all CCTV cameras in strasbourg
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

26 March 2020: US Space Force NatSec Rocket Launch

https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

https://mobile.twitter.com/RedKahina
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 9876
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby Grizzly » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:34 am

There's no way in hell that ISIS Just Attacked the "Capitale De Noel" in France
https://twitter.com/CMM_noticias/status/1072570923444813824There's no way in hell that ISIS Just Attacked the "Capitale De Noel" in France
If Barthes can forgive me, “What the public wants is the image of passion Justice, not passion Justice itself.”
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 3217
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: French Uprising of December 2018

Postby American Dream » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:03 am

“The Gilets Jaunes have blown up the old political categories”

France’s neoliberal order trembles as the yellow vest revolt shatters established political conventions. The new terrain presents both dangers and opportunities.

AUTHOR
Jerome Roos


Image

The reality of the matter is that it is not the movement itself, but the neoliberal restructuring of French society that has given birth to a monster — the monster of a resurgent nationalist far-right. It should not come as a surprise, then, that the gilet jaune phenomenon started out on the wrong foot, as an anti-tax protest initiated by a number of people with known anti-immigrant views and prior association with far-right groups. In the first weeks of the roadblocks, the media widely reported a number of disturbing incidents of racist, sexist and homophobic abuse, especially in some of the more peripheral areas of France. It is also undeniable that several ultra-nationalist, monarchist, fascist and neo-Nazi elements have actively participated in the clashes in Paris in recent weeks.

Nevertheless, despite this problematic start and the continued reference to symbols of national unity like the tricolor and the Marseillaise, the yellow vest uprising quickly overflowed the capacity of far-right elements or Le Pen’s Rassemblement National to claim the movement as their own. As the protests spread like a wildfire and spilled over into a generalized popular insurrection against the child-king Macron and his neoliberal stooges, hundreds of thousands of self-declared “apolitical” citizens — most of them first-time protesters with no prior street fighting experience — were drawn into the roadblocks and mass demonstrations. As a result, the social composition and ideological orientation of the movement has become increasingly diverse with every passing act of the revolt, opening up to a greatly expanded constituency between the relatively conservative Act I and the near-insurrectionary Acts III and IV.

The result is that the gilets jaunes, while certainly not representative of the entire French population, can now safely be classified as a popular mass movement. As such, the social composition and ideological orientation of its participants by definition mirrors some of the diversity found within the wider society — which is a different way of saying that the movement contains many of the same contradictions and pre-existing political fault-lines that run through contemporary France at large. If the gilet jaune phenomenon remains confused and difficult to pin down politically, that probably has less to do with any supposed moral failing on the part of the French working class than it has with the thoroughly disorganized and depoliticized nature of the country’s post-democratic late-capitalist society — itself a consequence of four decades of neoliberal restructuring and political decomposition.

RISKS AND OPPORTUNITIES
But even if we should not condescend the gilets jaunes for the inchoate and contradictory nature of their movement, we can — and certainly should — be wary of the dangers involved in sharing a broader field of contestation with the racist, sexist and homophobic far-right. To some extent, it can be argued that such far-right participation is inevitable in a highly heterogenous mass mobilization like the yellow vests. The challenge for the broader left, then, would not be to denounce such “impurities” from the comfort of its armchairs, but to prevent those far-right elements from establishing a hegemonic position within the movement. Since it does not look like the popular outrage that gave rise to the insurrection will dissipate anytime soon, radical and autonomous social forces have little choice but to actively engage with the movement in an effort to marginalize its racist and nationalist tendencies as much as possible.


Read more: https://roarmag.org/essays/gilets-jaune ... ategories/
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests