Thread for Elvis

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Come on, Iam. You quote an excerpt of my larger response, which therefore takes it out of context. My substantive comments are on page 36, not 35, and can be viewed here:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... &start=525

Edit:

The point here is an explanation was provided by Elvis.

There has been no explanation for AD's premature return. My ask on the prior page has to do with inquiring why AD was returned prematurely (secretly, with no notice before or after his suspension was lifted) whereas your inquiries back when AD was initially suspended questioned the suspension after the reasons were provided by the mod (despite your acknowledgement, at the time, that you didnt follow AD's posts). It's a false equivalence.

That aside: how does this change AD's behavior, and the justifiable reasons for his banning back then? It doesn't. He earned it.

Here's my full posting from that snippet you extracted, for reference:

.

ESmiles typed: I will be the first to admit that I often do not perceive the level of trolling ascribed to certain users that is perceived by others. And so it was with the accusations against American Dream ... I think I've since read some descriptions that help me begin to see the outlines of what is alleged but ... that level of "subtle" trolling seems so innocuous to me as to warrant a significant evidential accounting

I respect and appreciate your contributions here, but based on my reading, your comments imply you haven't been following the specifics pertaining to AD; your response is understandable from a casual/afar observer. The reasons for AD's current suspension are myriad, though in certain respects it's an aggregate of a years-long campaign on his part. Historically, mods here have suspended him numerous times for similar actions. He's been warned repeatedly. Will defer to the mods to expound further if they deem it appropriate to do so.

Jerky's track record is documented within this forum's walls for anyone to analyze as well.

IAM typed : Please note I've read your earlier announcement of his being suspended. I've rarely read AD's material, as much of the material he posts is of little interest to me. Nevertheless, I haven't missed criticism tossed his way, as his critics have made that impossible. Frankly, I don't know if any of the scurrilous allegations lodged against AD are in any way valid, so if any are, (being a rule breaker), please let us know what rule(s) was/were broken.

So, per your own words, you rarely read AD's material (which is voluminous/pervasive and FAR outnumbers the post count of anyone else, save for SLAD, by a WIDE margin), BUT yet you "haven't missed criticism tossed his way", which, relative to AD's output, pales in volume. Despite your own admission that you RARELY READ AD's material -- and therefore have ZERO insight into the validity of the claims against him -- you choose to opine here and openly scrutinize these claims, and further, question the decision by the mods to suspend AD, a member who you essentially ignore?

Prior to commenting on this topic, it may be useful to perform some due diligence/analysis of the available information first. Or not: performing analysis/due diligence is certainly not a prerequisite to opining here, clearly.

I'd suggest those questioning mod decisions apply a measure of trust the mods are taking actions in good faith, based on their best judgment. If anything, they've demonstrated a willingness to revisit and revise actions taken:

I'm amenable to reducing the duration [of AD's suspension]* and will consider it later (hopefully together with 82_28 who seems awol).

*brackets added by me for context.


This last bit is worth repeating:

By the level of broad support expressed on the board and in PMs, I'm persuaded these actions reflect the will of this board as a whole, a small vocal minority notwithstanding. Objections are noted, though barrel-scraping psycho-social analyses are disappointing.

[Harvey]

Iawia, Every single time anyone ever asked authority to account for itself, the interlocuter becomes the focus of attention. One of those iron laws.

Thanks, Harvey. My brain doesn't work so well these days. Interlocutor, btw.

You make my argument too easy.

[Iamwhomiam]

Sure, I do. Quite a fearsome power structure here to fear retribution from, eh? Please don't tell them where my great grandchildren live!! I've recently learned some here encourage eat babies and fetuses!

[Elvis]

That action [AD's suspension]* was orchestrated by a small but vocal group, in secret, without informing the board beforehand.

This is untrue. The fantasy of an "organized cabal" needs to be dispelled. The entire discussion was public, no one "orchestrated" anything. There were no private communications coordinating anything. I based my decision on the best publicly made arguments and announced the suspension immediately when it took effect.

* Brackets added

[MacCruiskeen]

I really have no time for this right now but I do have to address and refute one post that goes out of its way to name me and accuse me of something foul:

Both mods were here on the 2 of October correct

And why does Jack and Mac think you are their mod, that you were cleaning the place up for them at least that is what they are saying publicly

Of course you are lying yet again. Of course you know that I never said or even remotely implied any such grotesque thing, either privately or publicly. Your pretence that I did is just a transparently desperate attempt to stir up shit. If you had any evidence whatsoever to support your nasty and nonsensical assertion you would post it. No such evidence exists, as you well know, nor has it ever existed.

So stop lying, especially at my expense. (ON EDIT: And at Elvis's expense, because it is an insult to him.)

Jack can speak for himself, but you also know perfectly well that you are lying about him too. Stop it, at long last.

[MacCruiskeen]

For the record:

I had no communication with Elvis by PM or any other means between January 2nd 2019 and October 5th 2019. (I just went out of my way to check.)

[RocketMan]

"Stirring up shit" is quite apt.

[Iamwhomiam]

That action [AD's suspension]* was orchestrated by a small but vocal group, in secret, without informing the board beforehand.

This is untrue. The fantasy of an "organized cabal" needs to be dispelled. The entire discussion was public, no one "orchestrated" anything. There were no private communications coordinating anything. I based my decision on the best publicly made arguments and announced the suspension immediately when it took effect.

* Brackets added

Funny you didn't criticize Mac when he lodged the same complaint about AD's return.

There was not a "Public Discussion" about banning AD. No thread, poll or voting to seek members opinions on the matter was ever initiated by one of our moderators. Please prove me wrong. Also please share with us a link to your announcement. I don't catch or read everything posted here, so please don't be personally offended or overly defensive.

How about you and 82 get together and put an end to this disruptive nonsense that has the entire board polarized?

[MacCruiskeen]

That action [AD's suspension]* was orchestrated by a small but vocal group, in secret, without informing the board beforehand.

This is untrue. The fantasy of an "organized cabal" needs to be dispelled. The entire discussion was public, no one "orchestrated" anything. There were no private communications coordinating anything. I based my decision on the best publicly made arguments and announced the suspension immediately when it took effect.

* Brackets added

Funny you didn't criticize Mac when he lodged the same complaint about AD's return.

There was not a "Public Discussion" about banning AD. No thread, poll or voting to seek members opinions on the matter was ever initiated by one of our moderators. Please prove me wrong. Also please share with us a link to your announcement. I don't catch or read everything posted here, so please don't be personally offended or overly defensive.

How about you and 82 get together and put an end to this disruptive nonsense that has the entire board polarized?

Re: bolded: What are you talking about? Can you provide a link to substantiate your claim that I ever talked of "an organized cabal"? Of course you can't, because I never did any such thing.

What I did surmise (find the quote yourself, I'm busy) was that several PMs and/or emails had been exchanged among several RI members before the trolls' re-appearance. And of course they had, or how the hell else do you think 82_28 managed to inform Am*ric*n Dream and J*rky that he was re-instating them? To name but three names, which is an absolute bare minimum. Go ask seemslikeadream whoM she was PMing during the whole bloody affair, if anyone. I'm sure you'll get a straight and honest answer.

Also, 82 himself volunteered the information that he had "semi got" (sic) Jeff's approval, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean, exactly. Ask 82 yourself, why don't you. And get off my back at long last, what is your problem with me? (For all I know, you too participated in this lively backstage multiplayer communications effort. Did you?)

[JackRiddler]

I hate to see this fighting between Iam and others, I really do. It's to be expected that this situation, once it arises due to the bad actions of some, ends up causing conflict and misunderstanding among others.

[Iamwhomiam]

Mac, with all respect, you have misread Elvis' remarks as my own.

[Elvis]

How about you and 82 get together and put an end to this disruptive nonsense that has the entire board polarized?

As I have pointed out, I tried from the beginning to elicit 82_28's participation in decision-making, but to no avail. He just wasn't interested, even when he was around.

If you want the disruptive nonsense to end, you'll have to talk to 82_28.

I can fix your apostrophe mistakes but that's about it. 82_28 has unilaterally assumed moderator authority for himself.


Perhaps 82_28 will tell us if he and any other members had private communications that led to his reinstatements of AD and Jerky. If so, perhaps, just to show us there was no seamy collusion, he might publish them.

He certainly didn't communicate with me.


82_28 has now acknowledged to me in a PM that it was his intention to force me out. So naturally, secrecy was required as part of the plan.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

82_28 has now acknowledged to me in a PM that it was his intention to force me out. So naturally, secrecy was required as part of the plan.

Force you out?

On its face, an attempt by a mod to "force" another mod out via surreptitious means, without approval from Jeff (and if approval is obtained: on what grounds?), or without forum member consensus, is an impeachable offense, to borrow from the parlance of our times.

Will reserve judgement until further details are shared, if any.

[Elvis]

I want to make clear that I never wanted to be a lone moderator. This last summer I sought out and contacted several well-regarded members—including at least one who had explicitly opposed AD's long suspension—who I thought would make good moderators, in an attempt to recruit someone as a third (or really, then, a second) moderator, and to serve as my eventual replacement.

Nobody wanted the job.


Those who may be asked now to become a moderator should realize that you will get no support of any kind from 82_28, and you will have no actual authority because if 82_28 doesn't agree with your actions he'll simply undo them without telling you.

[identity]

I want to make clear that I never wanted to be a lone moderator. This last summer I sought out and contacted several well-regarded members who I thought would make good moderators, in an attempt to recruit someone as a third (or really, then, a second) moderator, and to serve as my eventual replacement.

Nobody wanted the job.


Those who may be asked now to become a moderator should realize that you will get no support of any kind from 82_28, and you will have no actual authority because if 82_28 doesn't agree with your actions he'll simply undo them without telling you.

So you are no longer a moderator with agency (even though your handle is still listed under moderators?

Is it your wish to entirely bow out of the position itself, or simply a (entirely reasonable) wish to leave a situation where your voice is and will be ignored?

Are you saying that 82 – who, for understandable personal reasons, jumped ship from late October through late July – came back and basically asserted a desire to now run the show single-handedly?