The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:08 am

.

drstrangelove » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:14 am wrote:I resolve it easily. In a choice between two evils, Sanders, an independent, has chosen the democrats. The same way in which Ron Paul, and to a much lesser extent his son, have chosen the Republicans.

Anyone who doesn't play the game is excluded from it, or dies in a plane crash when flying a charter airline that has a maintenance contract with dyncorp.

If people like Sanders and Ron Paul didn't/hadn't play/ed the game, they would be replaced with people like Peter Buttigieg, Matt gates.

Politics is a game. To play you need to follow the rules or the ones who do and their backers will just straight up kill you. Trump was an outlier because his base of support was the petty middle class which is utterly powerless, and the rules he broke to gain their support allowed him to support establishment ends.

Sanders is a metropolitan/urban populist, which means he has the ability to mobilize many more people than a rural populist like Trump. Sanders base is also much younger, which means more dangerous. Sanders placated his base in exchange for some level of political action to empower them. You could argue this exchange is not well balanced and he should do more. I'd probably agree with that.

But we all know the kinds of people he is dealing with. Crooks, murderers, paedophiles, rapists, and probably worse combinations of all these.

I don't think he Is above criticism, but to discount him as a shill I think is to ignore the reality of the system he is forced to work with.



I'm in alignment with all of this, and agree 'shill' is too facile/incomplete as a descriptor.

But ultimately, from our limited/occluded view -- outside of his community-level/union-related accomplishments -- it doesn't appear Sanders' strategy has led to substantive change at the national level, at least not on the key topics raised during his campaigns (though it remains possible his still-formidable fanbase may evolve to pose a threat to status quo). Perhaps it's simply impossible to achieve from within, which is where I lean these days.

I wouldn't place AOC in the same category as Sanders, however. She appears to be more contrived and also less genuinely articulate/adept.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:06 am

The democrats definately burnt alot of bridges having to curtail the Sanders campaign in the way did, and an awful lot of young people got 'red pilled' watching how the media turned on him, the primary rigging in Iowa, and out of the blue establishment backstabs from supposed fellow 'progressives' like Warren.

As more people lose faith in the system, it starts to give in. So that's something. He forced them to show their hand, even if his campaign policies were pipe dreams and he couldn't leverage his base effectively against the party establishment to get meaningful compromises.

And as frustrating as it was to see him not use the democrats attacks and rigging against him, as say Trump would've, as fuel on the populist fire, I honestly think they would've killed him off if he did, for the aforementioned reason. Which is precisely why the ground work was laid with his heart attack scare when he started peaking in the polls with no other clear rivals.

I think he kind of proves your point. It is impossible to change the system from within. Many have given up on the political system entirely.

Yeah AOC is no Sanders. The only other like him I can think of is Ron Paul, who was funnily enough on the other side of aisle.
User avatar
drstrangelove
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 10:43 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Lookit all these words about this triviality.

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:55 pm

.

You guys are unhinged. ADS is real.

There are two valid reactions for this:

1) Good for her, whatever.

2) Eh, whatever.

That's it.

Whatever.

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

If...

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:58 pm

And if AOC walked into the (annual) Met Gala (that you never gave a shit about or even knew existed before)[1] dressed as Che Guevara, and if she machine gunned the billionaires, you'd still find a way to twist it as being in their service.

(Which, I should add the caveat, given the way capitalism works, might well be recuperated into a service to their class, as it was with Alexander Berkman.)

[1] (I didn't)

.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 15983
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: If...

Postby Harvey » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 pm

JackRiddler » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:58 pm wrote:And if AOC walked into the (annual) Met Gala (that you never gave a shit about or even knew existed before)[1] dressed as Che Guevara, and if she machine gunned the billionaires, you'd still find a way to twist it as being in their service.


D-Minus. Must try harder.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Harvey » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:17 pm

AOC. Not you.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 pm



Glad you said that Harvey. I misread the initial post from earlier today and thought the D- was for JackR. I agree with JackR about AOC.

I'm still up for a Recipes and Ways to Cope with the Changes We Face or whatever. I never started the thread you suggested as never could come up with a suitable title and also feeling pretty much out of step with many at RI these days.
User avatar
PufPuf93
 
Posts: 1884
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:29 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:43 pm

"Saks the Fifth!"

In other words, whatever.
stickdog99
 
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Elvis » Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:54 pm

"Contrived"? AOC got elected to Congress by knocking on voters' doors in her district and talking to people. They liked what she said and voted her into office. She accomplished this against the wishes of the party machinery.

Inarticulate? AOC is an economist by training, and here she articulates perfectly the causes of the recent price levels:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CGYFJfLIU

I often hear people saying AOC says dumb things, but those critics simply lack AOC's sophisticated understanding of the economy. One person even made a list of "dumb things" AOC has said, but on examination, each item proves correct—indeed carrying sophisticated insights—but beyond the shallow comprehension of the ill-informed critic.
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7413
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby DrEvil » Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:38 pm

Yeah, but she's a young, good-looking woman! No way she accomplished everything she did on her own!
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 3971
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:56 pm

Elvis » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:54 am wrote:"Contrived"? AOC got elected to Congress by knocking on voters' doors in her district and talking to people. They liked what she said and voted her into office. She accomplished this against the wishes of the party machinery.

Inarticulate? AOC is an economist by training, and here she articulates perfectly the causes of the recent price levels:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CGYFJfLIU

I often hear people saying AOC says dumb things, but those critics simply lack AOC's sophisticated understanding of the economy. One person even made a list of "dumb things" AOC has said, but on examination, each item proves correct—indeed carrying sophisticated insights—but beyond the shallow comprehension of the ill-informed critic.


The hardcore Democratic Party folks at Democratic Underground are such that in terms of volume AOC is probably 2nd to Trump in negative posts. On the other hand some Democrats like AOC. I do.

Here is the latest good material for folks that don't like AOC from your DU compatriots.

BOMBSHELL: Designer of AOC's 'Tax The Rich' Met Gala Dress Owes Over $100K in Back Taxes

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215872204

Edit to add

That is one of the hottest (most active) threads in General Discussion at DU at this vary moment with nearly 6000 views but does not have the recs of other popular threads. AOC is a bone of contention at DU and in the Democratic Party. Good for AOC.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/? ... um&id=1002
User avatar
PufPuf93
 
Posts: 1884
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:29 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby RocketMan » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:29 am

AOC's initial election was no doubt mostly due to her own great efforts and a genuine upswell of anger against the party establishment.

What she is now... She frightens me. The performative bullshit is cranked up to eleven while she plays interference for the very party elites she supposedly protested against at first. The Met Gala thing was absolutely horrendous. Apparently the "working class" dress designer is a sweat shop running, employee oppressing prick.

I'm off AOC for good.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:30 pm

stickdog99
 
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Harvey » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:12 pm

"There is no Left." - Jimmy Dore

"Without any kind of pressure from the Left.. we've seen this forced march to the right. In Europe the Democrats would be seen as a Far Right party." - Chris Hedges

And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
User avatar
Harvey
 
Posts: 4165
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 4:49 am
Blog: View Blog (20)

Re: The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:07 am

.

So....

Anyone here still consider this person to be the genuine article? Or can we now all agree she's, indeed, a fraud?

One may argue she evolved to become a fraud -- to subsist within the System, etc. (not that it matters. End result is the same) -- but as with many public personas and belief systems over the past ~2 years, the veil has been lifted.

Or at least, they've been lifted for those that choose to see. Others are still keeping their eyes, ears and mouths covered.

Image
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stickdog99 and 54 guests