SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:58 pm

Elvis » 08 Nov 2019 05:43 wrote:Hell, I'm not even "completely comfortable" with Bernie Sanders. But I feel 10x better about Sanders than I do about any of the others.

When Bernie wasn't nominated, enough of his supporters refused to vote, giving the advantage to Trump. If nothing else, look at Trump's SCOTUS appointments; we could expect HRC's nominees to be MOR pro-business types, but nothing so quite disastrous as what we got.

If Trump gets a second term, the real gutting begins. I'd rather be a little "uncomfortable" with Warren than watch the misery of millions get the whole system of social services ripped out from under them. Because that's the plan, and the plan includes making it almost impossible to undo.


As much as modern politics is usually bullshit aimed at preventing action this is right on the money.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby stickdog99 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:01 pm

Elvis » 07 Nov 2019 19:43 wrote:Hell, I'm not even "completely comfortable" with Bernie Sanders. But I feel 10x better about Sanders than I do about any of the others.

When Bernie wasn't nominated, enough of his supporters refused to vote, giving the advantage to Trump. If nothing else, look at Trump's SCOTUS appointments; we could expect HRC's nominees to be MOR pro-business types, but nothing so quite disastrous as what we got.

If Trump gets a second term, the real gutting begins. I'd rather be a little "uncomfortable" with Warren than watch the misery of millions get the whole system of social services ripped out from under them. Because that's the plan, and the plan includes making it almost impossible to undo.


Warren would be far superior to Trump. But so would Biden. My biggest problem with Warren, Buttagieg, and Biden is that they would all handily lose the electoral college contest to Trump. Only Sanders can win a majority of white male independents. And only Sanders can excite young people, working class people, and typical nonvoters to not only get out an vote but to urge their friends to do so and even volunteer to knock on their neighbors' doors.

It's all well and good to say, "We need to back whoever turns out to be more popular with caucus goers and closed primary voters in totally red and totally blue states." But our personal "backing" won't beat Trump.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:26 pm

stickdog99 » 08 Nov 2019 09:01 wrote:
Elvis » 07 Nov 2019 19:43 wrote:Hell, I'm not even "completely comfortable" with Bernie Sanders. But I feel 10x better about Sanders than I do about any of the others.

When Bernie wasn't nominated, enough of his supporters refused to vote, giving the advantage to Trump. If nothing else, look at Trump's SCOTUS appointments; we could expect HRC's nominees to be MOR pro-business types, but nothing so quite disastrous as what we got.

If Trump gets a second term, the real gutting begins. I'd rather be a little "uncomfortable" with Warren than watch the misery of millions get the whole system of social services ripped out from under them. Because that's the plan, and the plan includes making it almost impossible to undo.


Warren would be far superior to Trump. But so would Biden. My biggest problem with Warren, Buttagieg, and Biden is that they would all handily lose the electoral college contest to Trump. Only Sanders can win a majority of white male independents. And only Sanders can excite young people, working class people, and typical nonvoters to not only get out an vote but to urge their friends to do so and even volunteer to knock on their neighbors' doors.

It's all well and good to say, "We need to back whoever turns out to be more popular with caucus goers and closed primary voters in totally red and totally blue states." But our personal "backing" won't beat Trump.


Even if you are right, that's no reason to not try.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:46 pm

You say you want a revolution? As far as I can determine, Sanders is the only candidate regularly using that word. And he means it.

"Revolution" for many calls up scenes of rioters in the street, buildings burning, bodies hanging from high bridges, and a new constitution.

Fact is, with the peaceful passage of a single law, the US Congress could overnight effect a political revolution — a new regime of full employment, meaningful work, non-profit universal healthcare, free education, clean energy, diplomacy instead of force, and putting an end to the one percent’s stealth takeover of America. No new constitution required.

If that 'one percent' succeeds in its plans, they will change the Constitution to suit themselves, and it's game over.

After that, good luck with rioting in the streets etc. etc.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:51 pm

Also, this is all speculation; alas there's another year of this circus to endure, and a lot could change.

(Add that to the big omnibus bill: election campaigns limited to two weeks' duration.)
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:03 am

Turns Out, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Is Huge in Iowa
And she might just be Bernie Sanders’ most important surrogate.
Tim Murphy

Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez stand on stage Friday on the campus of Iowa Western Community College in Council Bluffs.AP Photo/Nati Harnik

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was welcomed to Iowa with a roast. On Friday, while the first-term Democratic congresswoman from New York was introducing Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders at a rally in Council Bluffs, the state’s Republican bigwigs took their shots at the Lincoln–Reagan Dinner at a Marriott ballroom in downtown Des Moines.

“Doctor Ocasio-Cortez,” state GOP chairman Jeff Kaufmann announced, would be in town the next day with “Crazy Bernie.” “She’s got a problem with our cows here!” he said, referring to the Green New Deal she and Sanders had come to Iowa to talk about.

Joni Ernst, the state’s Republican junior senator, brought up the pair again, and again the audience booed. “We know what kind of reception they’re gonna get!”

Did we? At three stops over two days, Ocasio-Cortez was greeted with only a smattering of protests—I saw four people with weird signs on Saturday making fun of her for being a bartender—and large crowds in Council Bluffs, Des Moines, and Coralville. These were her first appearances with Sanders since she endorsed him in Queens last month. Technically, she was here in the first-in-the-nation caucus state to talk up the Green New Deal, the sweeping economic and environmental overhaul she introduced in Congress to combat climate change, now a major plank in the Sanders platform. But more than that, she was here as a sort of proof of concept—living, breathing evidence that the political revolution Sanders had promised wasn’t just happening but evolving.

The centerpiece of Ocasio-Cortez’s visit was a three-hour long climate summit at Drake University on Saturday. People heard from speakers such as Zina Precht-Rodriguez, an organizer at the Sunrise Movement, and the writer and activist Naomi Klein. Panelists discussed chicken farming and water quality and renewable energy while sitting in front of big watercolor panels painted by the artist Molly Crabapple—workers in orange vests putting up solar panels, workers in orange vests working on wind turbines, workers in orange vests…farming, maybe? I could go on about the content of the thing, but the content wasn’t what was revelatory; what was remarkable was the fact that it was happening at all.

“Four years ago when I was running around Iowa and New Hampshire and going all over this country, I talked about climate change, and people nodded their heads and I said, yeah, it’s a serious problem,” Sanders told the crowd in Des Moines. “I was on a national debate [and] a moderator said, ‘What do you think is the great national security crisis facing this country?’ And I said climate change. People kind of didn’t fully appreciate that answer. But the point is that over the last four years, as I go around the country today, people do understand.”

This is a meaningful shift in the United States, driven in large part by a revitalized activist movement. But it’s also a shift in how Sanders approached the issue. Four years ago, Sanders wasn’t avoiding the issue of climate change. (He was talking up “fossil fuel billionaires,” and pushing a climate agenda of his own.) But he wasn’t running on it quite like this, with three-hour summits where people who aren’t running for any office at all talked about the poultry industry, and corporate consolidation of pig-farming, and electrification of freight rail. He wasn’t doing a full weekend of events on the theme, in a state where corn and beef are king. No, this was something new, because in the time since the last campaign ended and this one began, the kinds of idealistic young lefty activists his campaign had counted on in 2016 had latched onto something else entirely and built it into a new organizing force.

And it was being shepherded, to a large degree, by the woman on stage with him—a former campaign organizer who’d protested at Standing Rock, then went and ran for Congress, and then almost immediately introduced the Green New Deal. She is Sanders’ most powerful surrogate in 2020 precisely because her career is the story the movement wants to believe about itself.

Ocasio-Cortez also just happens to be uncommonly good at this, adept at inverting the arguments that have traditionally been wielded against people with politics like hers. “When it comes to a Green New Deal people say—always, always, always with this question of ‘how are you going to pay for it?’” she said. “As if we’re not paying for it now.” She rattled off a list of recent, headline-grabbing shocks—the California wildfires, Hurricane Maria, decreasing crop yields.

“Coal miners are being denied their pensions while coal barons are being bailed out by the federal government,” she said. The message of Bernie 2020 is that you’re already paying for it.

Later that day, Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders spoke to a crowd of a few thousand at a field house in Coralville, near the University of Iowa campus. Sanders gear was in abundance, but he wasn’t the main draw for everyone. Caleigh Stanier, a high school junior, told me she came for Ocasio-Cortez, not Sanders.

“I admire her charisma,” she said. She’d watched the congresswoman’s Netflix documentary, Break Down the House, and seen some of her stuff on YouTube. She was drawn to a young female politician with the “boldness” to push a program like the Green New Deal.

Ditto for Jordan Mehling. Though she’ll be supporting Sanders for the second time next year, Ocasio-Cortez was the impetus to make the trip down from Minnesota. Watching the young Democratic Socialist challenge Washington political types had been an inspiration. “Before AOC came into my view, I cared about these things and I liked Bernie because he was standing up for these things that I also believed in, but”—but—”She’s the one who sort of made me feel if she can do it why can’t I do something as well?” Here was someone her doing the maximum. “I can at least be doing the minimum.”

Jessica Hillman, who had driven out from Chicago to see Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez, saw the congresswoman as something like a generational bat signal.

“We all wanted to do something meaningful, we all wanted change, but we didn’t feel like we had any power,” she said. “We couldn’t connect with other people and then when she came out it was almost like a message that was sent out that connected us all together.”

I saw a little girl jumping up and down as Ocasio-Cortez began to talk, and two young women rush into the crowd to get closer. Afterward, supporters flocked to the far side of the hall for handshakes and selfies. I came upon a University of Iowa student named Harry Manaligod excitedly telling a group of friends about shaking the congresswoman’s hand.

“I came for Ocasio-Cortez,” Manaligod told me. “She’s like a completely different league. I feel like there’s so many politicians that have made sacrifices to achieve their goals, and I feel like she’s not the kind of person that’s gonna let one thing fall to the wayside to get her goals accomplished.”

Further down the line, a grown man walked away grinning. “I can’t wash my hand now!” he shouted.

Sanders’ core identity is that he’s a man who doesn’t change—Ocasio-Cortez told the crowd Saturday night that she endorsed him because he had been fighting for people like her before she was born. The consistency is the thing; you hear it again and again. So much so that there is a frustration among supporters that other candidates have profited at his expense by simply appropriating aspects of his agenda.

“Every candidate is saying what Bernie has been saying,” said Robin Ruetenik of Coralville. “It’s a coattail orgy.”

But if this campaign turns out different from the last, it’ll be because of the subtle ways he and his movement have evolved. In 2016, Sanders was traveling around the country, promising a new day in America that you could only faintly begin to discern. In 2020, the revolution he promised isn’t quite so hard to imagine—she takes the stage right before him. That’s its own form of renewable energy.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... e-in-iowa/
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Two headlines (and their source organs) pretty nicely sum up the titular claim of this thread:

Bernie Sanders calls gun buybacks 'unconstitutional' at rally: It's 'essentially confiscation'
By Nick Givas | Fox News

Mandatory gun buybacks are unconstitutional and could give the federal government broad power to impose their will on law-abiding citizens, said 2020 presidential hopeful Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., on Sunday.

Sanders was taking questions at a green jobs town hall in Charles City, Iowa, when he was asked for his opinion on mandatory buybacks of AR15s and AK47s.

"I don't support — a mandatory buyback is essentially confiscation, which I think is unconstitutional," he replied. "It means that I am going to walk into your house and take something whether you like it or not. I don't think that stands up to constitutional scrutiny."

Sanders shared his gun control plan, which included taking an adversarial stance against the National Rifle Association, increasing background checks and banning the sale of assault weapons.

"We cannot allow the NRA to dictate policy because they've intimidated [President] Trump and they've intimidated the Republican party," he added. "I'm not going to be intimidated by them."

Former fellow 2020 candidate Beto O'Rourke was an outspoken advocate of mandatory gun buybacks for assault-style weapons and made it a centerpiece of his campaign.

In September at the New Hampshire Democratic Party convention, O'Rourke called for mandatory buybacks, red flag laws, and a national registry, all in the same speech.

"A gun registry in this country, licensing for every American who owns a firearm, and every single one of those AR-15s and AK-47s will be bought back so they’re not on our streets, not in our homes, [and] do not take the lives of our fellow Americans," O'Rourke said.

This isn't the first time the issue of gun buybacks has been thrust into the spotlight and criticized by the Democratic presidential field. In October, South Bend Mayor and 2020 hopeful Pete Buttigieg agreed with Sanders that buybacks are akin to confiscation. He drew fire from fellow candidates Sen. Cory Booker, D-NJ., and Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., who supported the plan.

Last month, before withdrawing from the race, O'Rourke said police officers would have to enforce the buybacks and enter private homes to carry out the confiscation.

“Any law that is not followed or flagrantly abused, there have to be consequences or else there is no respect for the law," he said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."

"I think there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm and to make sure that it is purchased, bought back, so that it cannot be potentially used against somebody else."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/bernie-sa ... iowa-rally


and

Calling for an 'End to Violence,' Bernie Sanders Becomes First 2020 Democratic Presidential Contender to Criticize Bolivian Coup
"I am very concerned about what appears to be a coup in Bolivia, where the military, after weeks of political unrest, intervened to remove President Evo Morales."
by Eoin Higgins, staff writer

Sen. Bernie Sanders on Monday became the first 2020 Democratic presidential candidate to speak out against Sunday's military coup in Bolivia which saw that country's President Evo Morales forced to resign before going into hiding.

"I am very concerned about what appears to be a coup in Bolivia, where the military, after weeks of political unrest, intervened to remove President Evo Morales," Sanders tweeted. "The U.S. must call for an end to violence and support Bolivia's democratic institutions."


The Vermont senator's comments came after a day of mounting pressure to speak out from his left-wing grassroots movement. Earlier Monday, as Common Dreams reported, Sanders supporter Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) condemned the coup in no uncertain terms.

"The people of Bolivia deserve free, fair, and peaceful elections," said Ocasio-Cortez, "not violent seizures of power."

Sanders' expression of support for Morales was welcomed by supporters.

"By far the biggest difference between Bernie and the rest of the Democratic candidates is how well versed he is in and how much he cares about the type of international left issues that, say, The Nation writes a lot about," said reporter Matthew Zeitlin.

Earlier Monday, Sanders released a new plan to help veterans; held a town hall with veterans in Des Moines, Iowa; and published at Jewish Currents an essay on combatting anti-Semitism.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/ ... esidential
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:43 am

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:11 pm

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:35 pm



The framing, "Trump Loves Socialism (for the rich)"? I see some of the objections, e.g. that's not socialism etc.

Better might be:

"Trump Loves Redistributing Your Income to People Who Didn't Work for It and Don't Deserve It"

— then a tag about the giveaways to big corporations & tax cuts for the rich.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:37 pm

Wanted to share this, seen on the Twitter...try not to cry:

https://twitter.com/deh4867/status/1199014727457882118
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:51 am

-I don't like hoodlums.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:49 pm

Bernie Sanders Surges in Latest Polls
Enjoying a national upswing this week—including a return to second place in the Real Clear Politics poll average and in a new poll out Wednesday—Sen. Bernie Sanders also now leads in the key early state of New Hampshire, according to a new state survey.


BY NORMAN SOLOMON
According to the Emerson poll released Tuesday, Sanders is now in first place with 26% followed by South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg in second with 22%, and former Vice President Joe Biden and Sen. Elizabeth Warren tied for third with 14% each.


Emerson Polling
@EmersonPolling
NH POLL: @BernieSanders leads #NewHampshire primary, followed by @PeteButtigieg https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.c ... den-falter

Dramatic in the results of the tracking poll was the swing among the top four candidates since it was last conducted in September, with Sanders up 13 points and Buttigieg up 11 points, while Warren and Biden dropped 6 and 10 points respectively.

Spencer Kimball, director of Emerson Polling, said “the Democratic voters have taken a look at Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren and they appear unsatisfied at this time which brought some voters back to Bernie Sanders while others are now moving to a fresh face in Pete Buttigieg, this demonstrates the fluidity of the race.”

According to Emerson:

Sanders has retaken a strong lead among those under 50 in New Hampshire, now leading with 38% support among that group. Following him among younger voters is Warren at 16%, Buttigieg at 12% and Biden at 8%. Buttigieg leads with those 50 and over with 32% support, followed by Biden with 19%, Sanders with 15% and Warren with 11%.

Sanders holds a stronger lead among registered Democrats as he garners 31% support among this group, followed by Buttigieg and Biden with 17%, and Warren with 15%. Among independents, Buttigieg leads with 29% support, followed by Sanders with 21%, Warren with 12% and Biden with 10%.

Looking within ideology, Sanders leads within those who are very liberal with 47% support, followed by Warren with 18%, Buttigieg with 12%, and Biden with 7%. Among those self-described as somewhat liberal, Buttigieg leads with 28% support, followed by Sanders with 25%, Warren with 18% and Biden with 12%. Among moderate/conservative voters, Buttigieg leads with 23% support, followed by Biden with 18%, Sanders with 17% and Gabbard with 11%.

As members of the Sanders campaign noted, the Emerson poll emerged just one day after the New York Times ran a headline—titled “Did New Hampshire Fall Out of Love With Bernie Sanders?“—that strongly suggested the senator’s star was falling in the early voting New England state. Campaign speechwriter David Sirota tweeted:


David Sirota

@davidsirota
Literally the same 24 hour news cycle

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And Mike Casca, the campaign’s communication director, said wryly: “I read somewhere recently that New Hampshire fell out of love with Bernie.”

Meanwhile, on the national level, the Real Clear Politics poll average showed Sanders had returned to second place behind Biden, pushing Warren back to third place with Buttigieg still at a distant fourth. The average, which incorporates national polls taken up through Nov. 25th, showed Biden leading nationally with 28.2%; followed by Sanders with 17.8%; Warren with 16.7%; and Buttigieg with 10.5%.


John Nichols
@NicholsUprising
For the first time in months, @BernieSanders is back in second place in the @RealClearNews average of recent polls. This is a significant improvement in position for Sanders, who has been rising steadily in recent weeks.

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Following that trend, a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS released Wednesday showed Biden in the lead with 28% followed by Sanders in second place with 17% percent of support among registered Democrats and Democrat-leaning independents. Warren holds the third spot with 14% while Buttigieg comes in last among the top tier with 11%.

Notably, as CNN points out, Sanders enjoys the trust of most voters when it comes to the key issues of the climate crisis and healthcare:

On health care, 28% say Sanders—an advocate of “Medicare for All” and the elimination of private health insurance—would best handle the issue. That’s about even with the 26% who choose Biden, who has argued against moving to a completely government-run system. Another 19% say they prefer Warren’s approach, which ultimately results in government health coverage for all, while 7% choose Buttigieg, and no other candidate has the backing of more than 3% on the issue.

Sanders leads the way more clearly on handling the climate crisis: 27% favor his approach, followed by 21% who prefer Biden and 15% Warren.

In an edition of the Sanders campaign’s Bern Notice newsletter sent Tuesday, Sirota noted that his candidate is now surging nationally but also pointed to the early voting states where, in addition to New Hampshire, Sanders is gaining ground.

“A new poll shows that since early October, Bernie has gained a whopping 9 points in the early primary and caucus states that could play a pivotal role in the 2020 election,” Sirota wrote. “As of today, Bernie is at 23 percent—and just 3 points behind Joe Biden—in Morning Consult’s tracking poll of Democratic voters in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada.”

In Iowa on Tuesday, the campaign released a new ad focused on the state that featured a new rallying cry for the campaign: “Big Us.”

“Bernie is in the pocket of #BigUs,” supporters online were saying as they shared the ad and the message on social media. “Pass it on.”

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/berni ... est-polls/
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Grizzly » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:02 pm

Sanders plummets to first place~! I'm sure some here will be disappoint [sic]. Alas, no worries, "we already have the next GATE, ready"!

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/senior-deutsche-bank-exec-linked-millions-donald-trump-loans-commits-suicide
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:00 am

Grizzly » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:02 am wrote:Sanders plummets to first place~! I'm sure some here will be disappoint [sic]. Alas, no worries, "we already have the next GATE, ready"!

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/senior-deutsche-bank-exec-linked-millions-donald-trump-loans-commits-suicide


Yep. They appear to have successfully and royally fucked Corbyn in the UK. They will have to brace for a hypercapitalist dystopia now, acting as a submissive territory/province of the US. God only knows how they will rape the National Health Service.

What Sanders has going for him, and what seems to now be more important than it could have been foreseen even perhaps a couple of years ago, is that he is Jewish. So accusations of anti-semitism are unlikely to stick. Surely the "self-hating Jew" thing won't fly anymore...?

It is still unthinkable to me that people are so STUPID as to in sufficient numbers buy that Corbyn is ANTI-SEMITIC. Up is down, black is white. The perception managers managed to find still another goddamn angle. :mad2
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