SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:26 pm

I always think somehow this time, this shit is gonna stop. Nope. This crap isn't worth a single tic-tac at a Salvadorean prison commissary.

The Liberal Case Against Bernie
With a dangerous lunatic in the White House, voting for Sanders is too big a risk.
By Eric Alterman

Senator Bernie Sanders’s presidential candidacy poses a conundrum for progressives. Not since 1936, when Franklin Roosevelt said that he “welcomed” the hatred of corporate interests, has a serious presidential candidate offered so aggressive a challenge to the conservative powers that be. At the same time, however, a dangerous lunatic is president of the United States, and Sanders, of all the major Democratic contenders, is the one who will make Donald Trump’s reelection most likely. Eight years of a Trump presidency could mean the end of meaningful democracy in the United States, along with many of the rights that women, minorities, immigrants, LGBTQ people, and others now take for granted.

Let me clarify: I’ve been a fan and supporter of Sanders ever since he was elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in 1981. I was honored to be asked to testify before him in Congress years ago, and I voted for him in the New York presidential primary in 2016. I did so, however, not because I imagined he might win the nomination, but because I hoped that a strong showing by Sanders would help wake up Hillary Clinton to the importance of addressing economic inequality, and also to honor his brave criticism of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank.

I was wrong. Sanders turned so negative toward Clinton that it hurt her in the general election. Even though he campaigned for her after he lost the nomination, roughly 12 percent of Sanders’s supporters switched to Trump, and enough of the rest supported Jill Stein’s kamikaze candidacy that it helped tip key states to Trump.

Sanders has now hired two press aides, David Sirota and Briahna Joy Gray. The former had recently devoted himself to harsh Twitter attacks on Sanders’s potential rivals for the nomination. (Sirota has since deleted his Twitter archives.) The latter, also a frequent and combative tweeter, ended up a Stein supporter in 2016. Their hires appear to presage a take-no-prisoners campaign that could conceivably put Sanders over the top in the primary while also alienating most of the electorate.

In a poll of likely primary voters in the battleground state of Wisconsin, Sanders crushed the field with a 40 percent showing. But he already has a 45 percent unfavorable rating among all voters, up from 36 percent three years ago. His favorable number is down to 46 percent, 13 points lower than it used to be. And this is before the Trump/Fox News/Breitbart/Facebook/Twitter/YouTube right-wing noise machine turns its poisonous attention to him—to say nothing of Wall Street and all the other industries that will no doubt strenuously oppose him.

Sanders today insists on calling himself a “socialist,” but he no longer holds most of the positions historically associated with socialism. He should know this because he was a serious socialist between 1972 and 1976, when he ran and lost in four statewide Vermont races on the Liberty Union Party line. His platform called for the nationalization of pretty much every industry in America, together with a 100 percent income tax on America’s top earners. And Sanders was still a socialist in 1980, when he served as an elector for the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party, which favored the abolition of the US military budget and proclaimed itself in solidarity with both Cuba and Iran at a time when the latter held over 52 Americans hostage.

I held some of the same views myself as a young man, but I am not running for president. And if I ever thought I might, I probably wouldn’t have agreed to attend a rally in 1985 in Managua, Nicaragua, with a crowd chanting, “Here, there, everywhere, the Yankee will die,” while the Nicaraguan president, Daniel Ortega, condemned my country’s “state terrorism” (accurate as the term was).

I mention this appearance because, according to reporting by journalist Kurt Eichenwald, Republicans have it and similar events on tape. They also have binders full of statements made in support of the kind of socialism that Sanders backed before he became what he is today: a typical New Deal–style liberal or European social democrat. Much of Sanders’s agenda is popular, but calling yourself a “socialist” is, according to recent polls, a losing proposition—74 percent of independent voters disapprove of it, with just 9 percent approving.

Sanders consistently speaks of the “political revolution” that he expects will carry his campaign across the finish line. He is, however, a candidate with views that, like mine, are to the left of the American “center,” wherever that may be. He is also a candidate who will be 79 years old in January 2021; who refuses (thus far) to release his tax returns and thereby robs the Democrats of a potent weapon against Trump; and who cannot even bring himself to become a member of the party whose presidential nomination he seeks. (Insert Groucho Marx joke here.) And I’ve not even mentioned his weakness, relative to Clinton, with crucial Democratic constituencies like African Americans and women. We can also count out the many voters who are uncomfortable with criticism of Israel (much as I admire Sanders for that).

A Sanders nomination would, I fear, deliver the country to Trump. It would depress turnout among all the groups I mentioned; increase support for the likely spoiler in the race, Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz; and keep a significant number of swing voters in Trump’s column. Additionally, some of the moms and grandmas who make up the backbone of the #Resistance told researcher Theda Skocpol that, owing to Sanders’s harsh treatment of Clinton in the 2016 election, they might sit out 2020 if he’s the nominee.

Someday, all of this may change, and I—or more likely my daughter—will be able to vote for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for president. Today, however, with Trump as president, Democrats cannot afford to bet America’s future on an invisible “revolution.” Here’s hoping they realize this soon enough to protect the progressive achievements of the past from the destruction and devastation that would be the inevitable result of four more years of Donald Trump.

https://www.thenation.com/article/berni ... -alterman/


Edit, oh FFS:

Here's the accompanying image:

Image

The title of the image? bernie-sanders-unflattering-rtr-img.jpg
Last edited by liminalOyster on Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:26 am

The title of the image? bernie-sanders-unflattering-rtr-img.jpg


Wow. That is really something, isn't it. And the argument against anyone left of the imagined "center" is always the same: TOO RISKY. No matter what the situation. It's like right wing economics: when the conjuncture is good, no room for social programmes because must get ready for recession. When it is bad, no money. The policy remains always the same, just the reasoning changes.

Yyyyyep, got to have your supply of unflattering Bernie images! My favourite Bernie image is this:
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:58 am

liminalOyster wrote:The Liberal Case Against Bernie
With a dangerous lunatic in the White House, voting for Sanders is too big a risk.
By Eric Alterman


Link?

Be prepared for more thin gruel thrown at Bernie...this should get interesting.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:17 pm

.

I enjoy aspects of Bernie, but we all know he'll never be elected, right? Will. Never. Happen.

Despite the will of The People, of course.

If National Election results were based primarily on the will of The People, our history would be markedly distinct than it is now.

He's an Outsider. Always will be. In order to be elected, he'd need to be an Insider, and if he were to ever become an Insider, we wouldn't want him as President.

Such is the Way of The West.
(And most other places as well, actually... often aided by the West, though)
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:56 pm

I don't agree that Sanders can never be elected president, and we can never know either way with certainty...unless of course he's elected.

Why not try?

And its not about the idea of "Bernie Sanders," it's about redirecting policy to the public good and getting the associated ideas more firmly established in the public mind. Sanders has shown he's the one to do that.

If he was elected "They" could always kill him, but the ideas are much harder to kill.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:04 pm

Elvis » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:56 am wrote:I don't agree that Sanders can never be elected president, and we can never know either way with certainty...unless of course he's elected.

Why not try?

And its not about the idea of "Bernie Sanders," it's about redirecting policy to the public good and getting the associated ideas more firmly established in the public mind. Sanders has shown he's the one to do that.

If he was elected "They" could always kill him, but the ideas are much harder to kill.


The Democratic party will do anything they can to destroy Bernie Sanders before he could be elected POTUS.

That said I am a voting-age life-long Democrat that supported Sanders in 2016 that does not want Sanders to run again for POTUS.

Sanders ideas are mostly 21st Century build on what was started by FDR and stifled just as much by neoliberal Democrats that control the party as by the GOP.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:10 pm

I don't think Bernie is much of an ideas man. I don't think he has ideas that are terribly novel or interesting. I think he's valuable because he operates as a model of ideological consistency over decades. He constantly reveals the basic ruse on which each election cycle is built. The ruse being that something now is dramatically different than it was 4 years ago. It's not. I've always thought Bernie is kind of milquetoast in a variety of ways. I don't really care though. I think he demonstrated an entirely unexpected ability, in 2016, to really connect and really come alive when people asked him to.

My only participation in the presidential election will be to cast my primary vote for him and then assess whether or not (assuming he loses again) it matters to vote Dem in my state in November. If yes, I'll do it. If no, I'll either abstain or hold my nose and make a meager vote offering to the Greens or on the off chance of a Left Libertarian, to that candidate. I'm thinking my entire voting activity can already be predicted to take maybe 15 minutes tops. And the trick now is to train my idiot mind to ignore the whole mess otherwise.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:52 pm

.


Why not try?


To be clear, my message should not be confused with NOT trying.

Be it Bernie or any other worthwhile candidate -- we should all TRY to get our man/woman elected. It's all we can do as citizens.

I'm saying: he'll never become President, for reasons irrespective of citizen efforts.

It'd be grand if I'm proven wrong come 2020.

But I won't be.


(This shouldn't be mistaken for negativity. Cynicism, sure. But so long as we continue to subscribe to the charade known as the National Election process, the Voice of The People shan't be heard. I simply do not believe The System -- as currently constituted -- can allow for a President benefiting the Majority. Too much money, power and influence built into The System for such an event to transpire. It's rigged for the Insiders. The System needs to be fully broken down and built up anew. Some day, perhaps.)
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Grizzly » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:11 pm



Dylan Ratigan Audit Exposes Secrets ~ Corruption of Federal Reserve Interviews, Bernie Sanders.

I agree, we can't discuss anything unless we acknowledge the extraction ...

Thought about putting this in the MMT thread, (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41320 ) but fits better here. Also see,



I am surprised these are still on Alphabet’s you tube. I'm sure they wont be for long.

Dylan Ratigan Rages Over "The Extraction Of America" And The Bought-Off Congress

It's been a while since Dylan Ratigan made some headlines but the farce under way in Washington reminded us of his epic 'falling over the edge' rant from 2011. In a Santelli-esque rage, Ratigan loses it over the banking, trade, and taxation that is draining America of everything and how nothing will ever change as the Congress is completely bought-off. Both political parties are to blame but "until we get the money out of politics" there is no policy that will fix the mess that we are in, he exclaims (and is once again proven rigfht today). The sad truth is these kind of honest truth moments are few and far between on the mainstream media (though we suspect will increase as reality sinks in)... and Ratigan's "mathematical facts" and vehemence make this must watch on a day when the US equity market hovers incredulously near all-time highs.


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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:21 pm

Thanks Grizzly. I am kind of shocked by how well done that J Law sponsored video is.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:40 pm

.

liminalOyster » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:21 pm wrote:Thanks Grizzly. I am kind of shocked by how well done that J Law sponsored video is.


Agreed -- worthy of its own thread.

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Grizzly » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:53 pm

Remember kids, VOTE BLUE, NO MATTER WHO! /s

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:24 am

Wow, hadn't remembered Dylan Ratigan. What happened to him? It's clear why he's not on MSNBC anymore...
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:44 am

He is a really good person ...I never saw him spending his time going after fellow journalists to gain some kind of notoriety ...he used his time on some good for veterans and the poor

MSNBC anchor Dylan Ratigan gives up fame and fortune to become a farmer
The cable news star succumbs to the back-to-the-land movement, fueled by ambitious plans that could have far-reaching effects.
https://www.mnn.com/money/sustainable-b ... fortune-to


INTRODUCING THE HELICAL OUTPOST®
INSPIRED BY COMBAT VETERANS WORKING WITH A FORMER JOURNALIST SEEKING TOOLS FOR GLOBAL RESOURCE SECURITY.
http://helicalholdings.com


Dylan Ratigan Is on a Mission to Transform Communities With Healthy Food, Clean Energy and Jobs for Veterans
https://www.alternet.org/2016/10/dylan- ... -veterans/


MSNBC Host Left TV Battles Behind to Fight Poverty Instead
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/busi ... stead.html
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Don’t forget that.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:19 am

Maybe should have gone with him the last time, eh DNC?

And I DON'T mean Donald Trump...
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