SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:08 pm

Rand Paul - 'How we gonna pay for it?'

Sure as hell, Paul didn't ask, 'How are we going to replace the revenue lost due to the trillion dollar tax cut?' (he voted to gift billionaires.)

We could cut our military budget in half and still be expending more than all other militarized, industrialized nations.

But if you're wondering about how much we've budgeted for avoiding the worst impacts from our rapidly changing climate, best not to.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:00 pm

Bernie Sanders ‘Wrote the Damn Bill.’ Everyone Else Is Just Fighting About It.
By Matt Flegenheimer
July 30, 2019

Bernie Sanders was at it again — center stage, his baritone building to something — right hand raised and restless, as if he were scribbling his words on an invisible chalkboard.

“Medicare for All is comprehensive,” he insisted, swatting away concerns that his health care plan might imperil benefits for union members. “It covers all health care needs,” he said. Older Americans, he enthused, would be covered for dental care, hearing aids, eyeglasses.

“You don’t know that,” Tim Ryan, a union-country congressman from northeast Ohio, interjected, later reasoning that Mr. Sanders “does not know all of the union contracts in the United States.” “You don’t know that, Bernie.”

Mr. Ryan turned to face him. For a moment, Mr. Sanders appeared inclined to ignore the interruption. “Second of all, second of all,” he said, waving off Mr. Ryan. Then the Vermont senator reconsidered.

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“I do know it,” he said. “I wrote the damn bill!”

For months, Mr. Sanders, 77 and familiar by now, has often strained to stand out in an oversize field stocked with fresher faces. He has appealed to voters’ memories of his insurgent challenge to Hillary Clinton in 2016, barely changing his stump speech for the 2020 race. He has reminded audiences that he was at the leading edge of the Democrats’ leftward lurch: free college, Medicare for All, higher taxes on the wealthy. And while few can summon the rumpled zeal of Mr. Sanders in full riff, some in the party have appeared to view Mr. Sanders as a less essential vessel, welcoming a new voice if it sounds enough like his.

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But in his blithe dismissal of Mr. Ryan on Tuesday and other exchanges like it — with several candidates nipping at him and a team of CNN moderators goading the contenders into open conflict — Mr. Sanders made this much clear: For better or worse for the party, he can still own the Democratic debate. And, on this night, the Democratic debate stage.

The questions were about him. The answers were about him. The acoustics were about him. (“You don’t have to yell,” Mr. Ryan said at one point.) A viewer with the sound off would have had no trouble guessing which candidate many rivals were aiming at. “Do you believe Sen. Sanders is too extreme to beat President Trump?” a CNN chyron read.

Many Democrats fear not only that the answer is yes but also that merely entertaining the kinds of policies Mr. Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren are pushing jeopardizes the party’s electoral fortunes. On health care in particular, moderates both inside and outside the presidential field have sounded alarms about how voters will respond to promises of dismantling private insurance.

“We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us, which is with bad policies like Medicare for All, free everything, and impossible promises that will turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected,” former Representative John Delaney predicted on Tuesday night, before ticking off the surnames of past Democratic presidential losers. “That’s what happened with McGovern, that’s what happened with Mondale, that’s what happened with Dukakis.”

After an exchange over immigration, Mr. Ryan warned that the unyielding progressive tilt of the night’s debate was dangerous politics. “Now, in this discussion already tonight, we’ve talked about taking private health insurance away from union members in the industrial Midwest, we’ve talked about decriminalizing the border, and we’ve talked about giving free health care to undocumented workers when so many Americans are struggling to pay for their health care,” he said. “I quite frankly don’t think that that is an agenda that we can move forward on and win.”

From their centrally located lecterns, Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren, sharing the debate stage for the first time, formed a persistent tag team, quickly dispelling any notion that they might snipe at each other.

Though either’s path to the nomination probably depends on consolidating progressive support, neither has seen much upside in attacking, sustaining a peace born of broadly shared policy goals and a friendship that aides describe as genuine. “Giant corporations and billionaires are going to pay more,” Ms. Warren said of the health care vision she shares with Mr. Sanders, in a line either could have uttered. “Middle class families are going to pay less out of pocket for their health care.”

Their mutual nonaggression was notable, if unsurprising. Mr. Sanders’s poll numbers of late have been middling, with Ms. Warren appearing to siphon support among some of the party’s most liberal voters, even if their coalitions do not always overlap. (Ms. Warren’s base tends to be older, more female and more educated, while Mr. Sanders remains especially popular with younger voters.)

Still, the two can be contrasts in style and substance. Mr. Sanders speaks of wide-scale revolution; Ms. Warren has self-branded as the candidate with a plan for everything. Mr. Sanders’s best-known campaign medium is the mega-rally; Ms. Warren has often subsisted on smaller events, defined by personal voter interactions and winding lines for photographs. Mr. Sanders aligns himself with democratic socialism; Ms. Warren says she is “a capitalist to my bones.”

On Tuesday, Ms. Warren declined a moderator’s invitation to label herself “the safer choice” when asked if her public embrace of capitalism was strategic. “It’s my way of talking about I know how to fight, and I know how to win,” she said.

In another exchange, as Ms. Warren tried to respond to Mr. Delaney’s criticism of her trade plan, Mr. Sanders briefly jumped in, before being told to wait his turn. “Oh, I’m sorry,” he said, deferring to his Senate peer. Soon after, he planted himself firmly on Ms. Warren’s side. “Elizabeth is absolutely right,” he said.

Yet if Ms. Warren’s steady rise in recent months has threatened Mr. Sanders’s hold on the hearts and minds of some progressives, he demonstrated repeatedly on Tuesday that his political brand is to be underestimated at his detractors’ peril, regularly earning ovations from the crowd in Detroit.

After another more moderate rival, former Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado, suggested that the Sanders agenda would effectively “FedEx the election to Donald Trump,” Mr. Sanders reminded viewers that he is polling well against the president.

“If we’re going to force Americans to make these radical changes, they’re not going to go along,” Mr. Hickenlooper said. He spotted Mr. Sanders stewing at the implication that those radical changes were not what people wanted. The senator began to lift his arms in protest.

“Throw your hands up!” Mr. Hickenlooper said, urging on the reaction.

Mr. Sanders did just that, and the people roared.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/p ... sContainer
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:46 pm

After an exchange over immigration, Mr. Ryan warned that the unyielding progressive tilt of the night’s debate was dangerous politics. “Now, in this discussion already tonight, we’ve talked about taking private health insurance away from union members in the industrial Midwest, we’ve talked about decriminalizing the border, and we’ve talked about giving free health care to undocumented workers when so many Americans are struggling to pay for their health care,” he said. “I quite frankly don’t think that that is an agenda that we can move forward on and win.”


Such dishonest framing! Sophistry! Fallacies! Lies.

These people need to be held to some standard of honest debate—but how many Americans even know what that is any more?
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Elvis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:46 pm wrote:
After an exchange over immigration, Mr. Ryan warned that the unyielding progressive tilt of the night’s debate was dangerous politics. “Now, in this discussion already tonight, we’ve talked about taking private health insurance away from union members in the industrial Midwest, we’ve talked about decriminalizing the border, and we’ve talked about giving free health care to undocumented workers when so many Americans are struggling to pay for their health care,” he said. “I quite frankly don’t think that that is an agenda that we can move forward on and win.”


Such dishonest framing! Sophistry! Fallacies! Lies.

These people need to be held to some standard of honest debate—but how many Americans even know what that is any more?


Delaney, I think(?), made this bollox comment about how every hospital he visited claimed they would shut down if they only received medicare payment of their charges (80%) and that this was "balanced out" by the 120% that private companies pay. The deliberate obfuscation of the most basic facts - that a working medicare system would practically eliiminate the existing billing infrastructure, etc - is f-cking infuriating.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:12 pm

As if physicians would walk a picket line, or find themselves in an unemployment line.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:05 pm

Iamwhomiam » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:12 pm wrote:As if physicians would walk a picket line, or find themselves in an unemployment line.


In the USA the supply of doctors is limited, to increase demand and thus keep the price high. And oh what a high price.

There are only about 1.1 million physicians in the US—less than one doctor for every 300 people. Cuba has three times as many, and Cuba surpasses the US in every health metric.

Many Americans seem more afraid of an abstraction called "socialism" than they are of bankruptcy, disease and early death. I argue that most Americans don''t care about the abstraction; they want health.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Grizzly » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:35 pm

I'll take him, but would rather it be someone else... Also, "Hospital Errors are the Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S." ...
If Barthes can forgive me, “What the public wants is the image of passion Justice, not passion Justice itself.”
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:59 pm

This may have been posted previously; see original for whole story with graphics.


https://fair.org/home/msnbcs-anti-sande ... o-do-math/

July 26, 2019
MSNBC’s Anti-Sanders Bias Makes It Forget How to Do Math
Katie Halper

When MSNBC legal analyst Mimi Rocah (7/21/19) said that Bernie Sanders “made [her] skin crawl,” though she “can’t even identify for you what exactly it is,” she was just expressing more overtly the anti-Sanders bias that pervades the network.

Image

The hostility is so entrenched, in fact, it seems to have corrupted MSNBC’s mathematical reasoning and created a new system of arithmetic. The cable news network has repeatedly made on-air and online mistakes about Sanders’ polling and other numbers—always to his detriment, and never with any official correction.


more
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:51 am

What Being Jewish Means to Bernie
July 17, 2019 Posted byDavid Klion

THE FIRST TIME Bernie Sanders ran for president, he didn’t talk much about being Jewish. In fact, he didn’t talk much about himself at all. His 2016 primary campaign, like his whole political career, was relentlessly focused on one topic: income inequality, and the moral outrage of a system in which the wealthiest one percent control an ever-increasing share of society’s resources. Compared to many other politicians, who foreground their personal narratives in their campaigns, he seemed to think his biography was beside the point.

This did not pass without notice—or criticism. The New York Times, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Tablet, and Commentary all ran articles either implying or outright arguing that Sanders was somehow secretive or embarrassed about his heritage. Sanders himself only directly addressed the issue once, when he was asked about it during a March 2016 debate with Hillary Clinton. CNN’s Anderson Cooper cited an article in the Detroit News accusing Sanders of keeping his Judaism in the background, and asked whether that was intentional. Sanders said it was not, adding, “Look, my father’s family was wiped out by Hitler in the Holocaust. I know about what crazy and radical and extremist politics mean.” He then declared: “I’m very proud of being Jewish. And that’s an essential part of who I am as a human being.”

Despite his distinctively Jewish accent and mannerisms, and despite the fact that no Jew has ever won more support in a presidential primary in either party, Sanders has never been as publicly associated with Jewish pride as, for instance, Joe Lieberman was when he was selected as Al Gore’s running mate in 2000 (“Chutzpah!” read TIME’s cover). The differences between the two are instructive: Lieberman is an observant Jew, while Sanders does not regularly attend synagogue or participate in organized religious life; Lieberman’s wife is Jewish, while Sanders’s is Catholic; Lieberman is a centrist with strong ties to corporate donors, while Sanders is a democratic socialist who only accepts small donations; and Lieberman is a staunch supporter of Israel, while Sanders has been outspoken in his criticism of the occupation and his support for Palestinian rights. Lieberman, in short, is representative of mainstream Jewish institutions in the country, while Sanders is representative of a different strain of Jewish life—one that is likely familiar to Jewish Currents readers, but marginalized in national politics.

“How uncomfortable he is talking about Judaism is very familiar to me,” says Rebecca Katz, a New York-based Democratic strategist and former staffer to Sen. Harry Reid who supported Sanders in 2016. “There’s a difference between religious Jews and ethnic Jews, and he is very much an ethnic Jew . . . he’s very much a Brooklyn Jew. People who are not Jewish may not understand the distinction.”

Notwithstanding his perceived reticence in 2016, Sanders has been subtly yet consistently deploying references to his Jewish background in speeches and interviews since the beginning of his 2020 campaign—using his Jewishness as a way to express his democratic socialist values, to connect to oppressed minority communities, and to root himself in a wider struggle for justice. This isn’t a strategy to win Jewish votes; rather, it is intended to help voters of all backgrounds understand how growing up Jewish shaped Sanders’s worldview, and how it informs his radical approach to politics.


SANDERS SIGNALED THIS SHIFT at his campaign kick-off in March—a packed rally at Brooklyn College, which he attended as an undergraduate before transferring to the University of Chicago. The key turning point in his speech came after he finished laying out his standard themes and policy proposals. “As I return here to Brooklyn, let me take a moment to become personal,” he said. “As we launch this campaign for president, you deserve to know where I come from—because family history heavily influences the values that we adopt as adults.”

Sanders went on to tell his story, as he rarely has in public appearances. He grew up in a rent-controlled apartment not far from the campus. His father, a paint salesman, “came from Poland at the age of 17, without a nickel in his pocket. Without knowing one word of English. He came to the US to escape the crushing poverty that existed in his community, and to escape widespread antisemitism. And it was a good thing that he came to this country, because virtually his entire family was wiped out by Hitler and Nazi barbarism.”

“I know where I came from!” he bellowed, veering off script. “And that is something I will never forget.” The crowd, which certainly contained its share of young people with similar family backgrounds, roared with approval. Sanders, finally, was telling his supporters that the values he brought to the race were rooted in his own experiences as a Jew: a working-class son of an immigrant, a Brooklyn native, and someone for whom the Holocaust was deeply personal.

“I think there’s a lot of pain and trauma about what happened to his family,” says David Sirota, a Sanders adviser who consulted on the Brooklyn College speech, and who is also Jewish. “I do think that [speech] was an important moment for him in that he let people see that pain. And frankly, I don’t think it was all that easy for him.”

Later that month, Sanders spoke at the Islamic Center of Southern California in Los Angeles in the wake of the New Zealand mosque shootings. “Let me do something that I have been criticized for not doing as a politician and be a little bit personal,” he said at the beginning of his remarks. Sanders went on to say that there were two forces that shaped his political views. One was growing up without a lot of money, and the other was being Jewish. He described crying when he would read books about the Holocaust as a child and being unable to understand “why people would do such terrible things to other people.” But then, he said, he got older and studied the history of the Native American genocide, of slavery, and of discrimination against minority groups in general. He explicitly connected these experiences with the Holocaust, and the struggles of immigrant groups today with those of his own family, and he pledged to stand up against all kinds of hatred. “Your background is different from mine,” he said. “What a joy it is to share that.”

“You can see the anger as he talked about it,” says Faiz Shakir, Sanders’s campaign manager, who is the first Muslim ever to run a US presidential campaign. Shakir emphasizes how Sanders uses these traumatic communal experiences to affirm common humanity, which he sees as an antidote to Donald Trump, “a president who’s making you look over your shoulder and see that you’re somehow different than one another, that maybe you came from a different place, speak a different language, practice a different faith, and that that’s a bad thing.”

“He’s talking about [his Jewish identity] where it makes sense,” says Ari Rabin-Havt, Sanders’s chief of staff, who is Jewish. “It’s part of the story of where he gets his empathy from.”

In June, Sanders spoke with Margaret Brennan on CBS’s Face the Nation, who asked him to comment on Jared Kushner’s “peace plan” for the Middle East, which involves no input from Palestinians. Sanders mentioned that he once lived in Israel (he spent several months on a kibbutz in 1963) and that he has family there, then pivoted to decrying the humanitarian conditions in Gaza and saying he would potentially be willing to condition military aid to Israel on their treatment of the Palestinians. His defiance of the Israel lobby’s uncompromising position was not new—Sanders notably spoke up for Palestinian rights in a debate with Clinton in 2016—but his citing of his own Jewish roots for credibility was.

“There’s been an effort over many, many years to try to equate being a good Jew with never offering up any policy critique or concerns about the behavior of the Israeli government, and Bernie has rejected that,” says Sirota. “Bernie is Jewish and he has raised substantive concerns with the behavior of the Netanyahu government, and those two things can exist together. Maybe he hasn’t explicitly said that, but just by being who he is, he transmits that.”

Sanders was the first candidate IfNotNow reached out to as part of its campaign this summer to get primary candidates to pledge opposition to Israel’s occupation. Last month, a group of activists in New Hampshire asked Sanders to be photographed with a sign reading “Jews Against the Occupation.” The resulting image is striking: the 77-year-old Sanders is surrounded by Jewish activists in their 20s, a visual representation of the transmission of an earlier era’s progressive Jewish values to a new, politically engaged generation. While some of the other candidates have taken IfNotNow’s pledge, there’s a unique power in Sanders’s ability and willingness to declare himself a Jew against the occupation.

Last week, the New York Times reported that Sanders aides have been pushing the candidate to disclose more about his Jewish story. They note, for instance, that when he visited the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh following the shooting there last fall, he met privately with a rabbi, but at the time instructed his staff not to inform the media about this, an embargo they now appear to be reconsidering.

“Afterwards, I could tell it wasn’t something that he really wanted out publicly,” says Shakir, referring to the Tree of Life meeting. “It wasn’t something he was eager to go out and discuss. It was something that was done more for his soul, really.”

On the one hand, Sanders is a genuinely private person, and his unwillingness to exploit such a sensitive moment could be read as a refreshing rebuke to this overwhelmingly crass political era. On the other, his decision not to publicly disclose this embrace of his Jewishness—and thus not to emphasize it even when visiting a synagogue in the wake of an antisemitic attack—crystallizes why his Jewish critics might see him as ashamed of his background. But there is also a third interpretation: that Sanders’s choice to keep his meeting with the rabbi private was itself a manifestation of his relationship to his Jewishness, which seems to matter to him not principally as a reflection of himself, but rather as a spur to act on behalf of others.


THE AIDES I SPOKE WITH all say that Sanders’s low-key references to his Jewish heritage are not an explicit strategic decision. But they are certainly aware of that heritage, and of what it means in historical context.

“Of course it has a huge significance. And I think denying that would be silly,” says Rabin-Havt. “When John F. Kennedy was elected as the first Catholic president, that was a barrier broken.” But whereas Kennedy was an iconic figure for American Catholics at the time, Rabin-Havt acknowledges that Sanders is not similarly revered by American Jews writ large. “The pro-Israel people obviously don’t like his policies,” he says, adding that older voters in general, Jewish or not, are not Sanders’s core supporters.

Sanders declined to attend AIPAC’s annual conference in Washington this year. In April, on the eve of Israel’s parliamentary elections, he accused Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of appealing to racism and said he hoped Netanyahu would lose re-election (he didn’t, although his failure to form a coalition means new elections will be held soon). Rabin-Havt points out that despite Sanders’s criticisms of Israel, “his story is in kind of the Zionist tradition,” pointing to his time on a kibbutz. “I don’t know if he feels Israel has changed,” he adds. “He certainly feels like Netanyahu as a right-wing leader is a shande.”

Sanders is also conscious of antisemitism directed at him, and was personally offended by a May Politico article, “The Secret of Bernie’s Millions.” The article came in response to Sanders disclosing a net worth of less than $2 million (significantly lower than many of his Senate colleagues and primary rivals), owing to book sales and nearly 30 years spent earning a congressional salary. It included an illustration of the candidate next to a tree with hundred-dollar bills for leaves and a fancy-looking mansion that Sanders doesn’t actually own. “It played on like seven antisemitic tropes,” says Rabin-Havt. “He was personally shocked by that and it was a jarring moment that that level of antisemitism was in a mainstream publication.” Politico never apologized for the illustration, which they also promoted on Twitter to significant outcry. Rabin-Havt says that Sanders was still fuming about the illustration weeks later, and Shakir independently brought this incident up in our interview.

Everyone I spoke with pointed to Sanders’s progressive values as key to his relationship to Judaism. “The secular Jewish social justice warrior is a real archetype in American society and culture,” says Sirota. “Justice is so central in Judaism. When he uses that term ‘justice’—social justice, racial justice, economic justice—I don’t think it’s a throwaway line. I think that is the frame through which he sees the world, and I think that clearly connects to his heritage.” In other words, Sanders represents an era of Jewish labor and civil rights activism that was vibrant in the pre-McCarthy New York he was born into, and that has since been suppressed relative to other signifiers of Jewishness in the political arena: Zionism, religiosity, and bourgeois materialism chief among them. This could account for why the emerging young Jewish left, which is reconsidering all of these values, is drawn to Sanders’s strain of Jewishness.

Sirota does acknowledge that he and Sanders haven’t directly discussed Jewish identity in the two decades they’ve known each other. But, he says, “just because he doesn’t expound on his Jewish roots doesn’t mean they’re not part of who he is and doesn’t mean that he doesn’t accept and embrace his own heritage.”

Sanders himself did not end up speaking to me for this article, ostensibly because his demanding schedule as a primary candidate didn’t allow for it. But based on everything his aides told me, it’s also possible that devoting an entire interview to his own Jewish identity would be out of character for Sanders. What he takes from that identity, after all, isn’t ultimately about him.

David Klion is News Editor for Jewish Currents and a writer for The Nation and other publications. He tweets @DavidKlion.

https://jewishcurrents.org/what-being-j ... to-bernie/
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm

US Sen. Bernie Sanders said he would keep us in the loop on all things extraterrestrial if he is elected president in 2020, which might be a pretty great campaign strategy.
The 2020 Democratic candidate made the comment Tuesday on comedian Joe Rogan's podcast, when the host asked whether he'd "let us know" if he found out any details.
Sanders' response: "My wife would demand that I let you know."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/us/berni ... index.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O-iLk1G_ng
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Elvis » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:07 pm

"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby Grizzly » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:30 pm

WE GONNA BRING IT BACK, YALL ...

One for good ole' Humanitywins!

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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby RocketMan » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:52 am

Bernie on Joe Rogan is a thing of beauty. :lovehearts: :lovehearts: :lovehearts:



PS. Make an exception and read the comments. Lots of libertarian bros with expanding horizons there! Seven million views! Briahna Joy Gray is killing it as campaign press secretary.
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:05 am

yes that is why I posted it, Rogan did a fantastic interview
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Re: SANDERS 2020 is seriously dangerous <3

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:16 pm

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