Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:29 am

yet another wonderful reply to me ..it is so encouraging you are my shining light that keeps me going...with all my love and prayers
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 am

Yeah, that's exactly what I fear which is why I should just stop this.

I heartily back the suggestion to have a limit to the monthly amount of threads a single account is allowed to start.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:01 am

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manu saadia
What I liked about Notre-Dame : It was a civic monument erected by the artists, artisans, engineers and merchants of Medieval Paris. Its function was primarily religious (after all it was the Middle-Ages) but it was also a display of the city's pride, opulence and mettle.

Great trading fairs were held around it (and sometimes inside), Mysteries, Passion Plays, the Song of Roland were performed in front of it. In the middle ages it was a center of Paris' social life along with the Montagne Sainte Geneviève.

The Kings of France were not usually buried or crowned in Notre Dame (They are in Saint-Denis). The Kings never trusted the proud Parisian people. And we never trusted them.

Notre-Dame became something else in the 19th century, during the long fight between the République and the Church.

Parisians built other monuments, but secular. Notre Dame stood as a relic of earlier times, largely emptied of its civic meaning and turned into a tourist attraction by the ministrations of Viollet-Le-Duc. (Yes, tourism really took off in the 19th century).

It was there, in the middle of the narrow and windy streets of the Île, or rather what's left of them after they were enlarged to let carriages and cars and buses pass through it. It was a postcard of nostalgia, a sort of shorthand and signifier for eternal Paris.

Parisians like me always found it bizarre that Notre Dame, remade and rebuilt like a theater stage in the 19th century, would hold such sway on other people's imaginations. Especially when two blocks away there's the Sainte Chapelle, which is better preserved.

In the past 30 years I have seen the Ile and the surroundings of Notre Dame turn into something that they were never meant to be.

Growing up we all knew that Notre Dame was not a safe place to visit (I must have been inside once, on a class trip I believe). Stuff regularly fell off the ceiling and the roof, pollution was eating the stones.bit was known as a tinder box waiting for a match.

It's a miracle nothing happened earlier.

So in all, it's very bad, especially the tons of lead going up in smoke over the center of Paris.

It should have been rebuilt long ago. Unfortunately, Notre Dame couldn't be closed for 10 or 15 years, prisoner as it was of its status as Paris' symbol.

So now it's going to be closed for a very long time. It's a real pity this had to happen the hard way. The 13th century rosaces are destroyed.

At least for visitors there will always be the Tour Eiffel and the Champs Élysées.

As for us Parisians, there's only sadness and anger at the destruction of our once-proud city.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby Cordelia » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:55 pm

Notre Dame fire fund hits 600 million euros and rising as L'Oreal offers to pay 200m


More than 600 million euros has been pledged by French billionaires and companies help repair the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris.

L'Oreal, the Bettencourt Meyers family and the Bettencourt Schueller Foundation have announced they will donate 200 million euros (£172.7m) towards the cathedral's restoration.

It comes after billionaire Bernard Arnault's family and his LVMH luxury goods group said they were donating 200 million euros to "show their solidarity at this time of national tragedy".

The iconic tourist spot was engulfed by a raging fire on Monday night that caused its main spire and roof to collapse.

A statement from the Arnault family said: "The Arnault family and the LVMH group would like to show their solidarity at this time of national tragedy, and are joining up to help rebuild this extraordinary cathedral, which is a symbol of France, of its heritage and of French unity."

The donation brings the total amount raised to more than 600 million euros, after French billionaire Francois-Henri Pinault and major French oil and gas company Total both pledged 100 million towards the reconstruction.

Mr Pinault, married to actress Salma Hayek, is quoted in French media as saying he and his father, Francois, decided to donate to help with the "complete reconstruction" of Notre Dame.”.

The younger Mr Pinault is chief executive of international luxury group Kering, which owns brands such as Gucci and Yves Saint Laurent, and is the president of French holding company Groupe Artemis, which owns the Christie's auction house.

Oil and gas company Total will also donate 100 million euros towards the reconstruction, CEO Patrick Pouyanne announced.

Apple CEO Tim Cook also pledged to donate to help rebuild the cathedral, writing: "We are heartbroken for the French people and those around the world for whom Notre Dame is a symbol of hope.

"Relieved that everyone is safe. Apple will be donating to the rebuilding efforts to help restore Notre Dame’s precious heritage for future generations."

Meanwhile, France's Fondation du Patrimoine, a private organisation which works to protect French heritage, said it would be starting an international appeal.

It tweeted: "For our Lady to be reborn from her ashes we are launching an international appeal. All donations received will be paid in full to the restoration site."

Mr Macron said he would be looking "beyond our borders" as the fundraising campaign got under way.

In a speech on Monday night, he said: "I am solemnly telling you tonight: this cathedral will be rebuilt by all of us together."

Describing Notre Dame as "our history" and "the epicentre of our lives", he added: "It's probably part of France's destiny and it will be our project for the years to come."

MORE: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/n ... 18781.html


Donation pledges from the world's richest hasn't yet reached a billion? Cheapskates. The loss of antiquities is a huge tragedy, as Baghdad's Iraqi National Museum well knows from its 2003 looting. Perhaps the coalition forces that pillaged their cultural heritage can generously contribute. (But then that wouldn't be very Christian.)

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Deputy curator Mohsen Hassan sits amidst the wreckage in the National Museum.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:57 pm

The race to re-build the icon of a Catholic empire is on with crowd funding flourishing. The race to build a just and peaceful world...

If that seems terse its because it is. Yes a beautiful piece of architecture, truly a world symbol. Ten "black" churches (segregation now, segregation forever) burnt down and while it made CNN's page, no philanthropist billionaire pledged more funding than is spent on the US homeless dilemma per fiscal year to resurrect them.

What we value in life is critically important. The Khemet Egyptians had a saying: "We shall keep building temples until you realize YOU are the temple."

Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet


How many Syrian refugees could a Notre Dame hold if a Notre Dame Cathedral could hold Syrian refugees?

Sanctuary cities...a good idea...for we all seek a place to rest our head in peace. As Chris McCandles brilliance shines, "Happiness is meaningless unless it is shared." Our peace lies in those who have none. Love has to fight for its existence. Evil is the lack of care. And act of God destroyed this place? Or the hands of men who through ignorance or carelessness started a fire they couldn't stop. Life procreates similarly, consuming, breathing, making off-shoots of itself leaving scoured earth in its wake. Tread lightly, you never know what's under foot. (Convoluted writing as usual, I want to write and ponder more on this subject)
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:09 pm

I guess I'm not the only one to wonder at the ease to raise hundreds of millions of euros in a day to rebuild a beautiful single structure, whereas otherwise in Europe terrifying austerity is the prevailing economic dogma. And what else could a few hundred million do, for instance in terms of aiding the refugees trying to get in Europe.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:47 pm

I would ask a millionaire or billionaire to give their money to Yemen's children

About 80% of the population - 24 million people - need humanitarian assistance and protection.
About 20 million need help securing food, including almost 10 million who the UN says are just a step away from famine. Almost 240,000 of those people are facing "catastrophic levels of hunger".
More than 3 million people - including 2 million children - are acutely malnourished, which makes them more vulnerable to disease. The charity Save the Children estimates that 85,000 children with severe acute malnutrition may have died between April 2015 and October 2018.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423


Yemen Cholera Factsheet April 2019
Current situation

137,736 suspected cases & 266 associated deaths from 1 January to 24 March 2019

21 out of Yemen’s 23 governorates and 268 out of Yemen’s 333 districts are affected Children under five make up around a quarter of cases
https://reliefweb.int/report/yemen/yeme ... april-2019
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby alloneword » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 pm

RocketMan » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:09 pm wrote:I guess I'm not the only one to wonder at the ease to raise hundreds of millions of euros in a day to rebuild a beautiful single structure, whereas otherwise in Europe terrifying austerity is the prevailing economic dogma.


'The French' (well, the few that I speak to on a regular basis) - and not only your Gilets Jaunes types, either - wonder at this, and have also been heard wondering aloud whether Macron didn't start the blaze himself - an "opportunity" for the nation to "come together" and "heal divisions" etc.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:12 pm

it was Michelle Obama/Macron false flag distraction from child sacrifice and Brexit.

Mike Rothschild


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Notre Dame is burning to the ground. But don't worry, QAnon has already cracked it wide open as a deep state/Michelle Obama/Macron false flag distraction from child sacrifice and Brexit.
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As if it could be anything else.


Notre Dame Cathedral Fire Conspiracy Theories Flourish After Investigators Say There’s No Proof of Terrorism

Right-wing personalities are pushing conspiracy theories about Monday’s fire at Notre Dame Cathedral, even after French investigators said the case is not being investigated as arson or terrorism.

Within minutes of the fire breaking out yesterday, pro-Trump commentators rushed to portray it as a symbol of Western decline. “The West has fallen,” declared Mike Cernovich.

Others were eager to suggest, without evidence, that Muslims were behind the fire. Gateway Pundit dredged up a three-year-old terrorist plot to blow up Notre Dame as proof that this fire was caused by terrorists. Fox News anchors had to repeatedly shut down guests who tried to push the idea that the fire was caused by terrorists. QAnon believers produced a wide range of theories, blaming the fire on everyone Michelle Obama to the deep-state to Pope Francis.

On Tuesday, French fire investigators said there was no evidence that the fire was caused by arsonists or terrorists. Rather than tamping down the conspiracy theories, though, the French statement has only fueled the idea on the right that terrorists were behind the fire. Instead, they’re treating the announcement as proof that the investigators can’t be trusted.

Pardes Seleh, a former Mediaite writer and Ben Shapiro acolyte, has become one of the leading arson truthers.

“Lemme put it this way: i'd be very shocked if it was an accident,” Seleh tweeted on Tuesday. “And no, french authorities announcing at the start of an investigation that they're ‘treating it as an accident’ doesn't count. french authorities are incompetent, we'd confirmed that long ago.”

Pizzagate promoter Jack Posobiec, now a reporter at the pro-Trump One America News cable channel, also suggested without evidence that the fire investigation was a coverup.

“Fastest arson investigation in history,” Posobiec tweeted.

The groundwork for the idea that the French investigation can’t be trusted was laid out Monday night by Glenn Beck, who has recently abandoned his attempts to style himself as a lonely voice of reason in the Trump era and gone back to his conspiracy theory roots.

Beck claimed that, if the fire was caused by terrorists, the truth would never be revealed.

“If this was started by Islamists, I don’t think you’ll find out about it,” Beck said in an appearance on The Blaze. “Because I think it would set the entire country on fire.”

Since the French investigators announced the lack of arson evidence, Beck has been joined by several other right-wing figures. Stefan Molyneux, a Canadian YouTube personality, questioned the validity of the fire investigation. So did Emerald Robinson, another reporter at One America News.

“Dear media: you are already reporting that Notre Dame has been declared an accident. But the investigation just started,” Robinson tweeted. “And the restorers had already left for the day. And the scaffolding had just gone up with no ‘welding equipment’ there yet. Tell me again how it started?”


https://www.thedailybeast.com/notre-dam ... -terrorism


Fact check: Notre Dame fire conspiracy theories debunked
As the Notre Dame cathedral burned on Monday, several conspiracy theories, hoaxes and deliberate disinformation campaigns went viral on social media -- some even gaining mention on live TV coverage of the devastating fire.

Although the investigation is early and still ongoing, officials say the fire was likely accidental. Officials consider it was possibly the result of the ongoing restoration work at the global architectural treasure, The Associated Press reports.

See here for a full list of what was destroyed and what was saved

No government official, fire service or police service in Paris, has suggested any evidence of arson.

Dissecting the arson theories that circulated online as the fire burned, here is a brief rundown separating fact from fiction.

- - -

FALSE CLAIM: Suspicious person wandering cathedral balcony

At around 7:51 p.m. (EST), Twitter user @TipsyPianobar shared a low-quality, grainy video and spread the false claim that a suspicious person was walking on a cathedral balcony with the caption: “No workers onsite. Who tf is this?”

The user later claimed the person was “not clergy” or “not a firefighter.”

TRUTH: It was a worker wearing a high-visibility jacket

But the Twitter video appeared to be directly taken from a live YouTube feed from CBNC of firefighters putting out hot spots on the historic building.

At least one unidentified worker in a high-visibility jacket or firefighter attire is seen walking back and forth several times throughout the feed -- at around 30 min, 42 min, 43 min and 45 minutes, for example.

Police officials have not stated any suspicious figures were on the scene.

- - -

FALSE CLAIM: Fire was set deliberately

The aforementioned grainy Twitter video was picked up by internet message boards 4Chan and 8Chan; and encrypted chat service Gab at least 45 times, with users spreading the false claim that the fire was the result of arson.

People on 4Chan message boards have claimed the person in the video was either a Yellow Vest protester or a person of the Muslim faith. Many users also repeated the same false claim that the person in the video didn’t look like a priest or a firefighter.

On Reddit, two users, one called BigRedPillMachine and another called CMDRBottoms, spread the video and were responsible for most of the shares of this conspiracy theory.

TRUTH: Officials say the fire was likely accidental

No official from fire or police in France has speculated the cause of the fire was arson. In fact, the opposite appears to be the case.

Officials consider the fire an accident related to restoration work at the cathedral, The Associated Press reports. Several religious statues --which were typically on the spire -- were spared because they had been removed from the cathedral roof last week, as part of that restoration.

Paris prosecutor Remy Heitz said the investigation would be "long and complex," explaining that approximately 50 investigators had begun a probe into the 12-hour-long fire.

The team will be interviewing workers from five companies who had been hired to work on renovations to the cathedral's roof, where the flames first broke out.

Heitz said an initial fire alert was sounded at 6:20 p.m. Monday, but no fire was found. The second alert was sounded at 6:43 p.m. and a blaze was discovered in the roofing at that point.

- - -

FALSE CLAIM: Fire seemed ‘suspicious,’ related to Muslim extremists

During live coverage of the fire, two guests on Fox News Channel tried to claim -- without any evidence -- that the fire was suspicious or connected to other earlier fires at other places.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue told host Neil Cavuto that, “if it is an accident, it’s a monumental tragedy. But forgive me for being suspicious.”

“Just last month, a 17th century church was set on fire in Paris,” Donohue continued. “We have seen tabernacles knocked down, crosses have been torn down, statues have been smashed.”

Then, in another interview with Host Shep Smith, Philippe Karsenty — the deputy mayor of Neuilly-sur-Seine who was at the scene — claimed something similar.

‘We’ve had churches desecrated each and every week all over France” over the past few years, he said in a phone interview, “You will hear the story of the political correctness which will tell you it’s probably an accident, but I don’t think,” he said, before he was abruptly cut off by Smith.

TRUTH: No evidence to suggest fire connected to earlier fires

In both cases, the hosts shut down the baseless speculation within minutes.

“Sir, sir, we’re not going to speculate of the cause of something that we don’t know,” Shep shot back. “No, sir, we’re not doing that here, not now, not on my watch.”

“The man on the phone with us has absolutely no information of any kind about the origin of this fire and neither do I,” Shep said after the call ended.

In Cavuto’s case, he ended his phone conversation with Donohue telling viewers: “we cannot make conjectures.”
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/fact-check ... -1.4382145
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby alloneword » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:33 am



I got this with the comment: "Watch this, it's fucking priceless".
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:44 am

alloneword » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:33 pm wrote:

I got this with the comment: "Watch this, it's fucking priceless".


Where will Macron have his coronation now?? \<] \<] \<]
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:57 am

Four years ago, an art historian used lasers to digitally map Notre Dame Cathedral. His work could help save it
Written by Michelle Lou, CNNBrandon Griggs, CNN

Although parts of Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral now lie in ruins, people can still experience what most of its nooks and crannies looked like in remarkable detail -- thanks to an American art historian.

Andrew Tallon, a professor of art at Vassar College, used lasers to painstakingly scan the cathedral in 2015, giving us a nearly perfect digital replica of the Gothic structure. And his work could help architects and engineers rebuild it after Monday's fire.
Tallon studied Gothic architecture and sought to understand how medieval builders erected some of Europe's great cathedrals. So he created a spatial map of Notre Dame using more than a billion laser-measured points.

Even though Tallon died in December, his digital model will be crucial for restoration efforts because it details exactly what the church looked like before the fire's destruction.


The charred interior of the Notre Dame Cathedral after Monday's devastating fire. Credit: AFP/Getty Images
"If (restorers) have any questions about how it was built before, they can look at the scan and measure every single thing," said Dan Edleson, principal of building information modeling firm STEREO. The scans are a "very accurate representation to the level that until a few years ago nobody could do."
How to rebuild a Gothic masterpiece like Notre Dame, by people who have done it before

The Notre Dame Cathedral has been repeatedly modified over almost seven centuries, making the architectural history of the building difficult to follow. But through 3D laser scanning, Tallon unveiled the builders' decisions and previously unknown characteristics of the majestic structure. For example, his scans showed that the interior columns at the western end of the cathedral do not line up.
Data may help architects


Restoration will take years, but Tallon's scan data will be invaluable in the process.

Tallon set up a tripod with a laser beam in more than 50 different locations around the cathedral to gather data points and get a spatial understanding of the structure. It's the same technology that self-driving cars use to identify objects around them, Edleson said.

The biggest part of the reconstruction will be the cathedral's roof, much of which was destroyed in the fire.

How to rebuild a Gothic cathedral

"Scan data ... will help them recreate measurements for beams and the overall structure," said Krupali Uplekar Krusche, who leads a team at Notre Dame University that uses 3D scanning to document historic monuments.

The data can show "how the building is constructed ... and you can see every corner, every detail digitally," Krusche added.

The level of detail -- which is accurate up to a couple millimeters -- will prove handy when it comes to restoring the cathedral's spire, which was intricately made, Krusche said.

Laser mapping uncovers dozens of ancient Mayan cities

Tallon's data by itself isn't enough to carry out a restoration, however. Architects will also need to incorporate information from past restorations, such as building materials, as well as photographs, measurements and drawings.

In deteriorating condition


Before he died last year, Tallon had expressed concern over Notre Dame's crumbling state of disrepair. In a 2017 video, he strolled along its roof, pointing to missing pieces, deteriorating gargoyles and water damage to the stones.
The scholar co-founded an organization, Friends of Notre-Dame de Paris in America, which raises funds for repairing the beloved cathedral.

"So what I hope you can see by walking through this forest of stones is that they're suffering," Tallon said in the video. "Through exposure to water, through exposure to atmospheric pollution, they need some attention ... a lot of attention."
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/notre ... index.html
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:43 am

RocketMan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:44 am wrote:
alloneword » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:33 pm wrote:

I got this with the comment: "Watch this, it's fucking priceless".


Where will Macron have his coronation now?? \<] \<] \<]


This disaster is a hell-sent giift to Macron. Not only does it sideline the ongoing Gilets Jaunes protests, it also allows every billionaire on this expiring planet to pose as a friend to humanity and a saviour of the West.

As for the cause, absolutely nothing can be ruled out a priori, and it is very striking indeed that the corporate media have been so quick to pour water on the very idea that it might have been arson. (That CTV "debunking" screed is so stupid a child could pick it apart.)
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Of felony [...]
The pyckpurse and eke the pale drede,
The smyler, with the knyfe under the cloke.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby alloneword » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 am

MacCruiskeen » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:43 pm wrote:Not only does it sideline the ongoing Gilets Jaunes protests, it also allows every billionaire on this expiring planet to pose as a friend to humanity and a saviour of the West.


That may be the message that's being transmitted, but what I'm hearing echoing back is more along the lines of "If these bastards can spare 1bn EUR for that, they can fucking well afford to pay the ISF ('wealth tax')".
Last edited by alloneword on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:21 am

thrulookingglass » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:57 pm wrote:The race to re-build the icon of a Catholic empire is on with crowd funding flourishing. The race to build a just and peaceful world...

If that seems terse its because it is. Yes a beautiful piece of architecture, truly a world symbol. Ten "black" churches (segregation now, segregation forever) burnt down and while it made CNN's page, no philanthropist billionaire pledged more funding than is spent on the US homeless dilemma per fiscal year to resurrect them.

What we value in life is critically important. The Khemet Egyptians had a saying: "We shall keep building temples until you realize YOU are the temple."

Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet


How many Syrian refugees could a Notre Dame hold if a Notre Dame Cathedral could hold Syrian refugees?

Sanctuary cities...a good idea...for we all seek a place to rest our head in peace. As Chris McCandles brilliance shines, "Happiness is meaningless unless it is shared." Our peace lies in those who have none. Love has to fight for its existence. Evil is the lack of care. And act of God destroyed this place? Or the hands of men who through ignorance or carelessness started a fire they couldn't stop. Life procreates similarly, consuming, breathing, making off-shoots of itself leaving scoured earth in its wake. Tread lightly, you never know what's under foot. (Convoluted writing as usual, I want to write and ponder more on this subject)




We're at $1,037,000! Less than 24 hours ago we were at $159k!

Seventh District Baptist Church Fires St Landry
Image

$1,059,423 of $1.8M goal

Pastor Mason Jack with the Seventh District will be interviewed on KADN News Channel 15 at 5 P. M. today on the outpouring of support locally and nationally. Channel 15 will also post the interview on their website.

I donated because people are spreading the word after the Notre Dame fire and turning collective mourning to the attention of those who need help. The internet is working for once

The burning of Notre Dame made me more aware of the needs closer to my home!

https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires ... supporters
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