Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby Cordelia » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:34 am

Probably one of the only disadvantages in being very wealthy is being judged on how you spend and donate all that money (and even live off the interest earned w/o touching the principal of your fortune). As the smoke clears, it’s only to be expected that the vast outpouring in funding is being questioned even by the mainstream media.

And, it wouldn't be surprising if the very wealthy also have their own best interests at heart in the restoration of Notre Dame because it may be a place they frequently view, visit and privately tour when visiting Paris. Certainly more so than, when in London, visiting the Grenfell neighborhood.


Wednesday 17 April 2019 by Pete Redfern

Grenfell survivors regret not installing stained glass windows to ensure a quick rebuild after fire



Image

Former Grenfell residents have expressed regret that they didn’t splash out on pretty stained glass windows before their tower burned down.


Following pledges by both the French government and a number of wealthy individuals to pour endless money into a pot to ensure the quick restoration of Notre Dame cathedral on account of its historic beauty and the artefacts contained within, survivors of the Grenfell fire have been left wondering if they might not still be homeless if their flats had looked bit nicer for the tourists.

Simon Williams, who survived the fire two years ago but is still living in temporary accommodation, told us, “It seems that even though no-one died in the Notre Dame blaze, they seem pretty keen to get it rebuilt, and quickly, on account of its age and beauty.

“Obviously we can’t change the fact that Grenfell was built in 1974, but I really wish we’d forked out on some stained glass windows, or a few intricate gargoyles, for people to insist on restoring.

“Maybe I should have bought a few ornate gold crosses and stuck them around the place, so that the poignant photos after the fire might prompt the government to come out and publicly pledge to build us an even more beautiful new tower.”

He concluded, “Obviously it is all our own fault and not the government’s, even if they did pay for cheap cladding – Theresa May did say two years ago that she’d get us all rehomed, and I’m sure that will happen.

“One day. Maybe after she finishes Brexit?”

https://newsthump.com/2019/04/17/grenfe ... fter-fire/


Anger at fundraiser for Notre Dame instead of homeless Parisians Metro News

Joe RobertsTuesday 16 April 2019

Hundreds of millions of euros have already been pledged to restore theNotre Dame Cathedral in the wake of the devastating fire. But many people are wondering why France’s richest men have suddenly found enormous amounts of spare cash to pay for a church roof when thousands of people are living without shelter on the streets of Paris. French billionaire businessman Bernard Arnault is donating €200 million (£172 million) to help repair the 800-year-old cathedral, while Salma Hayek’s husband Francois-Henri Pinault and his family have promised more than €100 million (£86 million) to help with the ‘complete reconstruction’ of Notre Dame.

The astonishing donations have been both praised by the likes of Piers Morgan and slammed by people believing the money could be spent transforming thousands of people’s lives. Shah Assunal Mumin was among hundreds of people reacting to the news on metro.co.uk’s Facebook page. He said: ‘It’s amazing how these billionaires are helping to aid the rebuild of this institutional building, however, where is the help to the world for humans? ‘Over 300 million is being donated!!! That could save thousands of lives around the world.’ Tanya Mimpress said it ‘does stick in the craw’ seeing all the money being spent on a cathedral instead of people. She said: ‘Seeing all that history and beauty burn was painful, yes.

‘And I get that it’s the “soul of a nation”, and yes, people should be able to donate as they see fit, of course. ‘But it does stick in the craw somewhat when so many in France, and elsewhere, are living hand to mouth.’ Ahmet Okan said it was ‘great news’, but reasoned: ‘What could have been greater if those billionaires secretly sent this money to war-torn Africa where people are still starving, in need of medicines and clean water.’ While many felt uncomfortable with the enormous contributions, Ro Mee said he didn’t see British billionaires helping those affected by the Grenfell fire. He added: ‘What I am saying is that some people are helping. And in times of need, look at the helpers.’

Sonja Piccolo said all this talk is ‘irrelevant’ because people can ‘do what they like with their own money’. She added: ‘What kind of a world do we live in when a philanthropist gives a hell of a lot of his own money to a cause and gets criticised because “he could have spent it better elsewhere”. ‘According to who? It’s their money and their right to choose what to do with it. When they start giving away my money, then I’ll have something to say about which cause it is pledged to.’ President Emmanuel Macron has vowed to rebuild the Notre Dame Cathedral.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/16/anger-fu ... s-9222801/


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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:39 am

Yea exactly Cordelia. And this.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:07 pm

I am very appreciative that Jeff has given me the opportunity to post here and start this thread for it gives RocketMan the opportunity to express his views about the Notre Dame fire

I am grateful to have your point of view in this thread I started Cordelia. I regret if I came off as being disrespectful to you. I am very sorry if I said anything that came across that way, that was not at all my intention. I am always thankful for your additions to my threads and your kindness to me through out the years here at RI


The black churches have now raised $1,916,220...that would be 1.75million since the Notre Dame fire in the days since the fire in part because the publicity of that fire made people aware of this go fund me project. I am very grateful for that added attention to the black churches and everyone that has contributed to the rebuilding


Francois-Henri Pinault, the billionaire CEO of the Kering luxury goods empire, announced he would forfeit his rebate on the €100m he has pledged.

"The donation for Notre-Dame of Paris will not be the object of any tax deduction. Indeed, the Pinault family considers that it is out of the question to make French taxpayers shoulder the burden," he said in a statement.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Man, that is a LOT of first person singulars again.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:19 pm

thanks, you are a doll for posting in my thread, love ya :hug1: :lovehearts:
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby Cordelia » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:31 pm

seemslikeadream » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:07 pm wrote:I am very appreciative that Jeff has given me the opportunity to post here and start this thread for it gives RocketMan the opportunity to express his views about the Notre Dame fire

I am grateful to have your point of view in this thread I started Cordelia. I regret if I came off as being disrespectful to you. I am very sorry if I said anything that came across that way, that was not at all my intention. I am always thankful for your additions to my threads and your kindness to me through out the years here at RI


Thank you but I felt no disrespect SLAD. I'm glad you started this thread here in G.D. and grateful for having the opportunity, once again, to sort through my own changing and often conflicting thoughts, feelings, and personal experiences w/the very poor and the very wealthy. :starz: Such is this crazy world we all live in.

:hug1:

Also greatly appreciative of RocketMan and everyone else on this thread and in RI!
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:47 pm

You too Cordelia. :dancingcouple:

I don't think that anyone here is of the mind that the Notre Dame should not be restored. Gross wealth inequality, hypocrisy, the dehumanization of brown people and the ever-accelerating accumulation of capital can still be added to the discussion.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby chump » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:41 pm


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ma ... ck-n995701

Man with gas cans arrested at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York
“It's hard to say exactly what his intentions were ... we don’t know exactly what his mind-set was.”

April 17, 2019, 8:35 PM MDT / Updated April 18, 2019, 7:14 AM MDT
By Tom Winter, Jonathan Dienst and Phil Helsel

A man carrying two gas cans, lighter fluid and lighters tried to enter St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City on Wednesday but was stopped by a security officer and taken into custody, an NYPD official said.

"Nothing happened inside the cathedral," the Archdiocese of New York said in a statement.

There was no fire, but there were people inside and the building was open at the time of the incident. Three senior law enforcement officials said the man may be emotionally disturbed.

The archdiocese said that "the individual was stopped as he tried to come into the cathedral," and he was turned over to police.

The incident comes days after the historic Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris burned in what officials in France say appears to have been an accident, as renovation work was being done at the time it broke out.

[...]


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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:05 am

Here is the full article from Chakrabortty in The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... inequality

The billionaires’ donations will turn Notre Dame into a monument to hypocrisy

A heritage site that roused barely a shrug two years ago means the world this week. A billionaire class that shrieked at the wealth taxes of the former president François Hollande is happy to stump up whatever it takes now. A politician, Emmanuel Macron, who has repeatedly told the poor they must live on less and the workers that they must give more to bosses, now plays at being a national leader – like Charles de Gaulle with more hair wax. And a capital city that over the past few months has been under siege from the working poor of the gilets jaunes is reminded once again of the enormous wealth held by a very few of its citizens. Everything that was impossible as late as 2017 is now deemed essential in 2019.

Of course, we would prefer private millions to be pulled out from under goose-feather pillows and spent on public works. But we should also be asking why it takes an almighty conflagration to force this to happen; and why those generous donors are so averse to giving their money to democratically chosen priorities, which is what taxes represent. If the ultra-rich can chuck in so many millions of euros for a building, then what stops them ending hunger and poverty?
...
Such ghastliness is not France’s alone. It is international and it is orthodoxy. Just look at Thursday’s Guardian lead story on how 1% of people in England own 50% of its land. Or remind yourself of the Oxfam finding that last year, the world’s 2,200 billionaires got 12% wealthier, while the bottom 3.5 billion people grew 11% poorer. Those at the top extract their wealth from those below – and then are applauded when they chuck us their spare change. From here it is just a short selfie-stick shuffle to a rebuilt Notre Dame boasting an Arnault gallery and a L’Oreal visitor centre. I’m joking, you snort. In which case, let me take you to the Sackler gallery at London’s Serpentine, generously donated by the family that extracted millions from opioid addiction.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:40 am

Probably one of the only disadvantages in being very wealthy is being judged on how you spend and donate all that money


How is monetary wealth earned justly? As a great misfortune Human Rights Watch is not the top grossing company in the world, nor Dr.s/Engineers Without Borders, nor Amnesty International, Greenpeace or a whole host of others whose labors actually produce greater good.

And how is money physically and structurally manufactured?

“…money is created as a form of debt. Banks create loans for people and businesses, which in turn deposit that money in their bank accounts. Banks can then use those deposits to loan money to other people – the total amount of money in circulation is one measure of the Money Supply" -- howthemoneymarketworks.com

Sounds perfectly ethical, right? Who creates the money, the Treasury. It’s all a scam. If I should find an apple tree in the forest that no one has staked claim of, who shall charge me for enjoying its fruits? Privatization has destroyed us. Whom shall we not feed that is seated at our table? Or shall we shun them from it?

Project Venus, which is a movement to create a society built on intelligent engineering with food, water, shelter in an ecologically harmonious system for all is where we will find meaning to life. Money is no treasure, caring for one another is. When society engineers for the advancement of all not for a moneyed elite, that is the path to greater living.

The will of the capitalist or what Chomsky is calling the Ultranationalist, the corpratocracy is to keep you mired in their system. The throttle on the neck of the poor is willful, structural and what the system is designed for. Your poverty is our profit. All of this research, whether it is the Greeks and their blessing of democracy or other nation states governance only convey the façade of integrity

“…We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...”

Welcome to theist America by the way. Safety and happiness…worthy pursuits. Anyone feel safer with 70,000 or more nuclear weapons at the ready?

He did say give all your money and possessions to the poor. I would reply that its false architecture. Build true wealth for all, not some. When I was young our parents and teachers would try to teach us to “share and share a like.” Bunch of fucking hypocrites. Selfishness vs. selflessness…

I keep searching for what will give my life meaning. Still haven’t found what I'm looking for....

What kind of world is this where the acting attorney general is replete with deceit?

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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:58 am

thrulookingglass, my comment to that is:

:hug1: :lovehearts:

It's a cold, merciless world sometimes. But there are other sides to it, too. Thank you for a profound post.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:56 pm

I don't think that anyone here is of the mind that the Notre Dame should not be restored. Gross wealth inequality, hypocrisy, the dehumanization of brown people and the ever-accelerating accumulation of capital can still be added to the discussion.


How about everybody that is constantly harping about wealth inequality go earn your own million or two then donate it all away? That would be more practical and effective. You could then choose all your favorite charities and have at it.

The money is out there to earn, why don't you just go do it? Or does it simply make people feel better to rinse and repeat the same worn out agenda points over and over?

The apples to oranges comparison between the "art" of Notre Dame to those of modern buildings lacking any original creative elements is a mockery to the discussion.

Also of interest is that certain relics and statues were removed shortly before the fire. Perhaps it was all just part of the project plan to take down and ship off the statues of the 12 apostles a few days before the fire.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/arts ... atues.html
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby RocketMan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:37 pm

I think it's pretty worn out to suggest that people who aren't rich are lazy and/or jealous.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby thrulookingglass » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Monetary wealth isn't wealth. I need to be loved. If you loved me, you wouldn't threaten me with nuclear war. We wouldn't put people to death, even saviors if we loved one another. I don't think anyone wants to see Notre Dame in shambles but it is an idle church/religion as are most towards the causes of higher consciousness. Social justice, equity and emancipation from greed. Richness comes from making other peoples lives better, not just your own. Its like that crown...what they warned us about...idol worship...we love the cathedral, we hate each other. Its an object, life is priceless.
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Re: Paris: Notre Dame built in 1160 burning

Postby Karmamatterz » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:34 pm

I think it's pretty worn out to suggest that people who aren't rich are lazy and/or jealous.


Didn't suggest you were lazy, that is your projection. Jealous, perhaps that is not the right word and I also did not use it. But there is a self-righteous claim that is made that they should be doing something else of your liking with their money.

Yes, life is precious. That is not being disputed. Art is amazing and makes what we are as humans a richer existence.

I need to be loved. If you loved me, you wouldn't threaten me with nuclear war. We wouldn't put people to death, even saviors if we loved one another.


The way you wrote that is sweet. It's another part of our existence, to be loved. But we shouldn't, though many people do, get their validation for existence from others. Once you are able to break free from seeking validation from others you can be truly happy. Ask me how I know...it was a painful (mentally) experience. We can't and needn't expect others to love us, but it's nice when they do. People you don't know, who live in other nations? Not very practical to think they will love you. Big corporations? Nation states? Hmmmm..their very existence isn't one with a framework for love. Profits and control yes, love no. When our expectations are wildly out of sync it creates dysfunction, anxiety and unhappiness. Only when we look within for happiness can one truly be happy.

I do appreciate the way you expressed yourself. When I listen to John Lennon or George Harrison's work created post Beatles I feel the same way.

Love is a flower, you got to let it grow.....
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