Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Association)?

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Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Association)?

Postby PufPuf93 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:19 pm

The NRA has way too high a profile in the USA for my sensibilities.

Now allegedly the NRA has been a conduit for funneling money and influence from Russian interests.

Seems a good RI subject plus here is a fresh article on Ollie North's ouster, North is no longer President of the NRA.



NRA ousts president Oliver North after alleged extortion scheme against chief executive


Michael Brice-Saddler

WAPO 4/27/19

National Rifle Association President Oliver North has been ousted after an alleged extortion scheme within the group’s highest-ranking officials came to light on Friday. In a statement, North told the organization he was “informed” he would not be nominated for reelection. North’s term ends Monday.

The NRA’s chief executive, Wayne LaPierre, wrote a letter to the board Thursday accusing North of plotting to remove him from the group by threatening to release to the board “damaging” information about LaPierre. He claimed North, a former Marine Corps lieutenant colonel perhaps best known for his role in the Iran-contra affair, was pressuring him to resign over alleged financial transgressions.

“Delivered by a member of our Board on behalf of his employer, the exhortation was simple: resign or there will be destructive allegations made against me and the NRA,” LaPierre wrote in the letter, which was published Friday by the Wall Street Journal.

“I believe our Board and devoted members will see this for what it is: a threat meant to intimidate me and divide us,” he continued. “I choose to stand and fight, and hope to bring 5 million members with me.”

LaPierre, the NRA’s executive vice president, who has been with the organization for decades, said he refused to comply with the threat, adding that he was “alarmed and disgusted” by the situation.
On Saturday, at the NRA’s annual meeting in Indianapolis, Richard Childress, a vice president at the NRA, read what amounted to a resignation letter from North that announced and explained his departure.

“Please know I hoped to be with you today as NRA president endorsed for reelection,” North wrote. “I’m now informed that will not happen.”

North continued his resignation letter by saying he believes the NRA should establish a committee to review the organization’s finances, which he said constitute a “clear crisis” that “needs to be dealt with” if the NRA wants to continue to be a viable organization.

The NRA’s board, comprising 76 members, is scheduled to meet Monday.

North’s departure and the circumstances surrounding it cast a public light on the apparent discord within the influential gun rights group.

The Wall Street Journal reported that North, who became NRA president last year, defended himself in a letter to the board Thursday, indicating his actions were “for the good of the NRA.” North previously wrote a longer letter to the board’s executive committee, alleging LaPierre had made more than $200,000 of wardrobe purchases and charged them to a vendor.

Sources familiar with the matter told the Journal that LaPierre’s Thursday letter was an “angry reaction” to North.

The back-and-forth is apparently fueled by a growing rift in a decades-long relationship between the NRA and the advertising agency Ackerman McQueen, according to the Journal. The NRA filed a lawsuit against Ackerman McQueen this month in Virginia alleging the firm had not been transparent in justifying its billings. In a statement to the Journal, Ackerman McQueen argued it was complying and called the lawsuit “frivolous, inaccurate and intended to cause harm to the reputation of our company.”

The suit specifically mentions a contract between Ackerman McQueen and North, the Journal reports, who was hired by the agency last year to host an NRATV documentary program, which LaPierre says nets him “millions of dollars annually.”

LaPierre detailed a phone call between one of his staff members and North that took place Wednesday, in which North allegedly suggested Ackerman McQueen was prepared to release an “allegedly damaging letter to the entire NRA board.”

“The letter would contain a devastating account for our financial status, sexual harassment charges against a staff member, accusations of wardrobe expenses and excessive staff travel expenses,” LaPierre wrote. “But then, Col. North explained the letter would not be sent — if I were to promptly resign as your Executive Vice President. And, if I supported Col. North’s continued tenure as president, he stated he could ‘negotiate’ an ‘excellent retirement’ for me.”

The NRA did not respond to a request for comment.

LaPierre wrote that after the call, he was informed by others he “needed to withdraw the NRA lawsuit against [Ackerman McQueen] or be smeared.” An Ackerman McQueen spokesman declined to comment to the Journal.

LaPierre went on to assert the claims made by the advertising firm were “conveniently” fabricated and brought up amid the lawsuit and demands from the NRA for accurate books and records.
The turmoil was publicized on the same day President Trump spoke at the NRA’s annual meeting in Indianapolis.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-o ... spartanntp
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby RocketMan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:52 am

Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Association)?


Image

It's a whole psychosexual thing... ya know. :shrug:

Image
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby alloneword » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:48 am

PufPuf93 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:19 am wrote:Now allegedly the NRA has been a conduit for funneling money and influence from Russian interests.


Was this ever proven? Mueller? :shrug:
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby PufPuf93 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:20 am

alloneword » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:48 am wrote:
PufPuf93 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:19 am wrote:Now allegedly the NRA has been a conduit for funneling money and influence from Russian interests.


Was this ever proven? Mueller? :shrug:

Maria Butina pled guilty to charges but I do not think specific charges of dropping money into USA politics. Butina had her picture taken with scads of NRA types (and GOP too). I am a sceptic as far as an opinion of what actually occurred and is true about the Mueller investigation and have not read any of the report. Our expert at RI seems to have disappeared. :shrug:
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby liminalOyster » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:58 pm

It's a nasty, corrupt, racist etc front group at one level. But .... it has a base (and they have no other real options) for very good reason: hunters (including progressive ones) are appropriately pissed about the reductive idiocy of gun discourse. The assholes pictured here look transfixed by the psycho-sexual crap, yes. But for most of the hunters I know, their guns are about as sexy or interesting as a powerdrill.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby DrEvil » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:55 pm

They're more a right-wing/libertarian cult than anything else at this point. They consistently go to the most extreme viewpoint on anything and everything involving guns. Moderation and compromise are not part of their vocabulary and people die every day because of it.

If regular gun owners had any sense they would tell the NRA to fuck off and start a new organization dedicated to sane regulations. Just a normal interest organization for people who hunt and shoot for sport with none of the crazy of LaPierre, North and the drooling militia morons. Or just ban anyone who owns more than five guns from the NRA.

Fun fact: gun injuries go down by 20% when the NRA has a convention.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby Karmamatterz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:53 pm

Not to come out in support of the NRA (no I'm not a member either) but I did find interest in this:

Moderation and compromise are not part of their vocabulary and people die every day because of it.


IF thousands of people everyday would drink alcohol with moderation and not get behind the wheel of their automobile there would be fewer deaths and injuries. If one truly is concerned with the deaths of innocents (not all victims of gunshot death are innocent victims) then surely more stringent regulation of alcohol and vehicles would be a top agenda item.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby RocketMan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:18 pm

Karmamatterz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:53 pm wrote:Not to come out in support of the NRA (no I'm not a member either) but I did find interest in this:

Moderation and compromise are not part of their vocabulary and people die every day because of it.


IF thousands of people everyday would drink alcohol with moderation and not get behind the wheel of their automobile there would be fewer deaths and injuries. If one truly is concerned with the deaths of innocents (not all victims of gunshot death are innocent victims) then surely more stringent regulation of alcohol and vehicles would be a top agenda item.


Well then why do you think the US has such a horrendous number of gunshot-related deaths compared to, say, Western European nations? Compared to, say, the UK?
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby thrulookingglass » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:27 pm

I'm kicking myself to this day for not keeping the letter. When I was around sixteen years old, back in the 80s, I was into the whole GI Joe, men hunt and own guns and that's perfectly natural ethos and figured I'd probably want to own a gun when I'm an adult. My mom would only let me own an air rifle even if I took a fire-arms safety course, which would later become law in Massachusetts, so I did and passed. I subscribed to Field & Stream at the time and wound up trying to start a membership with the NRA. I don't think I had ever become a member, but they did send me a survey. It asked questions about waiting periods for hand guns, background checks for fire-arms purchases, to which I answer, yes I support background checks, waiting periods and limited sales of hand guns. They sent a letter in response to my honest answers to their survey. They stated that because I believed in background checks and waiting periods that I wasn't the type of member they were looking for, declined my membership and offered many an excuse for their stance on why they didn't share my want for fire-arms security. As I said, I wish I kept the response. I remember tearing it up in anger, livid that by expressing my honest opinion made me unfit for membership. Oh well. Now I simply have no interest in owning a gun anyhow. Violence sucks.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA

Postby alloneword » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:58 pm

PufPuf93 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:20 pm wrote:
alloneword » Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:48 am wrote:
PufPuf93 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:19 am wrote:Now allegedly the NRA has been a conduit for funneling money and influence from Russian interests.


Was this ever proven? Mueller? :shrug:

Maria Butina pled guilty to charges but I do not think specific charges of dropping money into USA politics. Butina had her picture taken with scads of NRA types (and GOP too). I am a sceptic as far as an opinion of what actually occurred and is true about the Mueller investigation and have not read any of the report. Our expert at RI seems to have disappeared. :shrug:

As far as I can tell, the words 'Butina', 'Torshin' or the initials 'NRA' don't appear anywhere in the (redacted) Mueller report.

Maria Butina only pleaded guilty to 'conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent' (a confession secured only after having been held in conditions described as 'borderline torture').

As her lawyer put it:
“There’s no allegation of espionage, there’s no allegation of classified information, there’s no allegation she was paying anyone off, there’s no allegation she was recruiting spies. None of the things you would typically see in an espionage case,”

I'm pretty sceptical with regards to the notion of 'influence from Russian interests' based on what appears to be more akin to a clerical error than, you know, actual espionage.

None of which means the NRA can't just fuck off, though. Heston? North? Come on...

Not a conclusion I came to by asking 'experts', mind. ;)

RocketMan » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:18 pm wrote:Well then why do you think the US has such a horrendous number of gunshot-related deaths compared to, say, Western European nations? Compared to, say, the UK?

Fun fact for the day: In the UK, you are as likely to shoot yourself deliberately as a US citizen is to shoot themselves accidentally (~0.15 in 100,000). In both (and most other) countries, you're around twice as likely to shoot yourself as get shot by someone else.

I think that means that statistically, you're probably better off not owning a gun... and if you find that depressing, you're even better off not owning one.

I'm sure I read somewhere once that if you keep firearms in the same house as children, they are statistically way more likely to die playing with the gun(s) than by some bad people coming to the house and killing them for you (which puts the notion of keeping guns for 'protection' or 'self defence' in a different light),

Guns Kill Children - The overwhelming evidence that pediatricians are right and the NRA is wrong.

https://everytownresearch.org/notanaccident/

Tragic. :(
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:22 am

There is an long ongoing thread where guns are discussed.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35991&start=315&hilit=guns+yawn#p654273

This thread looks like it's ready to move the convo over to there.

Already mentioned, if people were truly concerned with innocent people dying the alcohol issue would be addressed. Just as related is the entire opioid situation. Death is death. There is this myth being played out that it's all about guns. Guns guns and guns! Why the other thread title of "Guns Yawn" is so perfectly appropriate. Turning briefly solipsistic, as I continue to work at stop smoking one can also see parallels to tobacco use, guns, alcohol, drugs and death.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby DrEvil » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:33 am

Karmamatterz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:53 pm wrote:Not to come out in support of the NRA (no I'm not a member either) but I did find interest in this:

Moderation and compromise are not part of their vocabulary and people die every day because of it.


IF thousands of people everyday would drink alcohol with moderation and not get behind the wheel of their automobile there would be fewer deaths and injuries. If one truly is concerned with the deaths of innocents (not all victims of gunshot death are innocent victims) then surely more stringent regulation of alcohol and vehicles would be a top agenda item.


Whataboutism was, is and always will be a shit argument. "Look at this other bad thing" is just a dishonest way of distracting from the issue. It's possible to address more than one problem at a time, but this thread is about the NRA, not AA or AAA.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:21 am

"Look at this other bad thing" is just a dishonest way of distracting from the issue.


No, it's pointing out the dissonance with the entire issue of how people die.

Many people feel a need to control others. They want to control the lives and choices others make because of various reasons. Some of which are their own personal issues which make it easy to glom onto social issues. If you really want change in the NRA become a member and get on their board of directors. Otherwise all this is just a fart in the breeze.
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:29 pm

WTF Is Happening at the NRA, Explained

Infighting. Lawsuits. “Devastating” finances. Existential threats. Everything you need to know about the hot mess at the National Rifle Association

By Tim Dickinson & Andy Kroll (Rolling Stone)

Chaos broke out at the NRA’s annual convention in Indianapolis last week. The gun group’s figurehead president, Oliver North, backed by its longtime PR firm Ackerman McQueen, allegedly tried to oust the NRA’s powerful CEO, Wayne LaPierre. But LaPierre hit back — forcing North to step down, while winning unanimous reelection by the NRA board.

As this Game of Thrones-worthy infighting played out, New York Attorney General Letitia James announced she has opened an investigation into the NRA’s financial practices — amid public accusations that NRA executives and contractors have been feathering their nests with donor dollars — raising the possibility that the association’s non-profit status could be revoked.

Things have gotten so bad that even “chaos president” Donald Trump tweeted at the gun lobby to “get its act together quickly, stop the internal fighting, & get back to GREATNESS – FAST!”

Below, we tease out this hot mess at the NRA: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... er-830567/
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Re: Just what is it about the NRA (National Rifle Associatio

Postby PufPuf93 » Fri May 03, 2019 3:34 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:22 am wrote:There is an long ongoing thread where guns are discussed.

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... wn#p654273

This thread looks like it's ready to move the convo over to there.

Already mentioned, if people were truly concerned with innocent people dying the alcohol issue would be addressed. Just as related is the entire opioid situation. Death is death. There is this myth being played out that it's all about guns. Guns guns and guns! Why the other thread title of "Guns Yawn" is so perfectly appropriate. Turning briefly solipsistic, as I continue to work at stop smoking one can also see parallels to tobacco use, guns, alcohol, drugs and death.


My thought in this thread was to look specifically at the NRA as a political and social phenomena at present and not issues about guns in general. The RI thread mixes the two issues. That North was fired from NRA and the NRA infighting is giggles at assholes as a voyeur to their cluster fuck. :yay
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