What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic entail?

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What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic entail?

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:12 pm

This post got no traction on the main COVID-19 thread probably because it is tangential to the primary controversy of whether entire COVID-19 crisis is manufactured hysteria. But I think it is important to delineate what we feel a rational and helpful response would be to the actual threat of a respiratory disease pandemic if only to help ascertain just how far short our current responses have fallen, at least in the Unites States.

Thought experiment: Imagine that we did not live in an oligarchy in which every crisis, no matter how horrific, was always used as yet another means to transfer even more wealth from the 99.9% to the 0.1%. What would a rational response to COVID-19 from a representative democratic government entail?

1. Like all other first world governments, this government would have guaranteed healthcare to all its citizens decades ago in order to save trillions as well as to prepare the healthcare infrastructure necessary to respond to inevitable health crises such as flu pandemics.

2. This government would have moved to ramp up US production and manufacture of all necessary healthcare supplies such as masks, viral particle trapping air filters, gowns, and ventilators years ago. At the first sign of the COVID-19 pandemic, this government would have provided grants to develop and manufacture millions of tests and antivirals in response to an impending COVID-19 crisis.

3. This government would have utilized its vast military capabilities to do something useful for its citizenry for once by readying mobile MASH units to be deployed to any localities that experience spikes in COVID-19 victims that overwhelm these localities' hospital capacities. Strict protocols would have been put in place to test anyone who sees any healthcare professional for any reason. Those who test positive for COVID-19 would have been sent to an isolated field hospital equipped with all the necessary respirators for the duration of their infectiousness. Those who fully recovered and now enjoyed COVID-19 immunity would then be offered high paying jobs providing healthcare for the duration of the crisis.

4. Of course, it goes without saying that any "economic stimulus" package considered by our beneficent fantasy government would first and foremost provide immediate relief to all citizens whose lives are economically threatened by this crisis in the form of free food, free utilities, free rent, free internet access, and covered mortgage payments at least for the entire duration of the crisis. At the barest minimum, all evictions, foreclosures, and utility cutoffs would be immediately suspended. Businesses would be eligible for billions in monthly emergency relief only if they demonstrated that they were following best practices in all of their employee policies during the crisis and only if they could document that they used these bailout funds to pay and/or retain their current employees.

5. This government would quickly move to employ as many currently unemployed people as possible in socially useful jobs such as free grocery delivery to the elderly, free COVID-19 testing for anyone who wants it, and even socially useful projects such as community solar power installation, affordable housing construction, long overdue infrastructure repair, free internet installation, and free online computer training classes. As a condition of employment, all new government workers with any contact with the public or other workers would be continually tested for COVID-19 testing and would be required to wear free masks during the performance of any work requirements that force them to come into contact with others.

Please add your suggestions. I realize that I have only scratched the surface here.

To me, the weirdest thing about performing this thought experiment is that the oligarch handmaidens who currently govern the USA are so antithetical to benevolent democratic representatives that it has become almost impossible even to attempt to conceive of how different things would be if were instead to have governmental representatives who actually cared about their constituents.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:38 pm

stickdog99 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:12 pm wrote:This post got no traction on the main COVID-19 thread probably because it is tangential to the primary controversy of whether entire COVID-19 crisis is manufacture hysteria. But I think it is important to delineate what we feel a rational and helpful response would be to the actual threat of a respiratory disease pandemic if only to help ascertain just far short our current responses have fallen, at least in the Unites States.

Thought experiment: Imagine that we did not live in an oligarchy in which every crisis, no matter how horrific, was always used as yet another means to transfer even more wealth from the 99.9% to the 0.1%. What would a rational response to COVID-19 from a representative democratic government entail?

1. Like all other first world governments, this government would have guaranteed healthcare to all its citizens decades ago in order to save trillions as well as to prepare the healthcare infrastructure necessary to respond to inevitable health crises such as flu pandemics.

2. This government would have moved to ramp up US production and manufacture of all necessary healthcare supplies such as masks, viral particle trapping air filters, gowns, and ventilators years ago. At the first sign of the COVID-19 pandemic, this government would have provided grants to develop and manufacture millions of tests and antivirals in response to an impending COVID-19 crisis.

3. This government would have utilized its vast military capabilities to do something useful for its citizenry for once by readying mobile MASH units to be deployed to any localities that experience spikes in COVID-19 victims that overwhelm these localities' hospital capacities. Strict protocols would have been put in place to test anyone who sees any healthcare professional for any reason. Those who test positive for COVID-19 would have been sent to an isolated field hospital equipped with all the necessary respirators for the duration of their infectiousness. Those who fully recovered and now enjoyed COVID-19 immunity would then be offered high paying jobs providing healthcare for the duration of the crisis.

4. Of course, it goes without saying that any "economic stimulus" package considered by our beneficent fantasy government would first and foremost provide immediate relief to all citizens whose lives are economically threatened by this crisis in the form of free food, free utilities, free rent, free internet access, and covered mortgage payments at least for the entire duration of the crisis. At the barest minimum, all evictions, foreclosures, and utility cutoffs would be immediately suspended. Businesses would be eligible for billions in monthly emergency relief only if they demonstrated that they were following best practices in all of their employee policies during the crisis and only if they could document that they used these bailout funds to pay and/or retain their current employees.

5. This government would quickly move to employ as many currently unemployed people as possible in socially useful jobs such as free grocery delivery to the elderly, free COVID-19 testing for anyone who wants it, and even socially useful projects such as community solar power installation, affordable housing construction, long overdue infrastructure repair, free internet installation, and free online computer training classes. As a condition of employment, all new government workers with any contact with the public or other workers would be continually tested for COVID-19 testing and would be required to wear free masks during the performance of any work requirements that force them to come into contact with others.

Please add your suggestions. I realize that I have only scratched the surface here.

To me, the weirdest thing about performing this thought experiment is that the oligarch handmaidens who currently govern the USA are so antithetical to benevolent democratic representatives that it has become almost impossible even to attempt to conceive of how different things would be if were instead to have governmental representatives who actually cared about their constituents.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:02 pm

stickdog wrote:"This post got no traction on the main COVID-19 thread"


That is because " the main COVID-19 thread" (sic) functions as a bin, where any attempts to exercise actual intellectual rigour or sane intuition or even provide any helpful information will be buried under acres of Funny Memes and smiley-hugs and animated discussions about whether toilet paper is really better than Ulysses or a bidet, or which ri poster is the cwuellest of them all. (I am.)

I wanted to post something about the now-acute emergency (in more than one country) of families in cramped accomodation going nuts under curfew, but there is no point in even trying because that thread was very quickly locked down, and anyway those losers are not american,. And when the american losers in cramped accommodation start getting uppity too, then they too will turn out to be negligible deplorables & therefore expendable. It will make great tv.

netflix n kill
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:16 pm

Hi stickdog. I think your number one would moot all other points you mention.

Guaranteed income, already long established, would assure no need for bail outs.

There would be no shortages of essential medical equipment. A single payer, a single provider = no bidding wars between states for supplies.

If we had universal health care we would care for all citizens and because we cared, and having already planned for it, we'd be better prepared to handle such an outbreak and keep it minimized. Imagine our response if the CDC's funding for such planning hadn't been cut but was well funded as it should have been. Pandemics are avoidable.

What scares me is wondering whether this was/is a test, corpses and all. And whose test was it, if it was a test? If it's a game, it's got a captive world wide audience filled with far too many players.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:34 pm

^qed
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:36 pm

From yet another merged/ruined/ locked-down thread:

MacCruiskeen » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:49 am wrote:Dr Evil:

1. Insist on the immediate requisition of hotels (all now empty anyway) as emergency hospitals.

2. Call on all medical and nursing students,l (all now idle anyway) -- esp. those in their final year of study -- to report immediately for short intensive training in emergency medicine, esp. the treatment of acute respiratory crises, geriatric care, and the operation of medical respirators.

3. Step up the production of such respirators and any other medical equipment urgently needed. Issue a public appeal for people who may still have respirators at home to hand them into hospitals if they or their deceased relatives no longer need them.

4. Demand full and immediate and transparent data about which social groups are most at danger -- age, existing comorbidities, social class, housing situation, etc. (No one is asking for anyone's ID, ffs)

5. Call on advice and practical assistance from Cuban medics, who have decades of invaluable practical experience in such matters.

Etc.

Just for a start. All this was obvious weeks back. Any govts that truly cared about their people's welfare would have taken such steps long ago.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." (Max Liebermann, Berlin, 1933)

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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:37 pm

Please explain your comment mac, I really don't understand.

I see you posted again before my comment. Never mind.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby thrulookingglass » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:14 pm

· The immediate and unilateral demilitarization of the entire planet with a complete cessation of war and aggressive actions invoked with cause to a working peace for all nations of earth.

· A gradual end to economics, capitalistic behaviors with humanities effort in labor enacted to improve the lives of all who live upon this sacred Earth.

· That all souls of Earth shall be provided with the basic neccessities of life at absolutely no cost whatsoever, never to exclude health care, clean food, air, and water, clothing, shelter.

· That all future efforts of the denizens of this Earth shall work forever in peace and harmony to build a better community for all.

· Clemency and reform. That we shall not punish criminals brutally or in a demeaning manner but offer forgiveness and reform for those who may transgress the law. If we are to become less violent, we must not issue violence upon others in return.

Amen
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:32 pm

No one who matters is really worried abt any goddam virus. Only actual human ppl who have beloved family or friends who are already v. old or v. sick. Or of course poor, the losers. Public healthcare has been ruined and run down worldwide for decades now by the same ruthless smirking cackling chinstroking solemn-silly timeserving careerist spacewasting selfworshipping zilionaire masters of the universe now pontifiicating on the world's tv sets, the same shits ppl are now begging for guidance + Strong Leadership from.

"Bernie", ffs

rachel fucking maddow

netflix n kill
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby stickdog99 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:22 pm

MacCruiskeen » 29 Mar 2020 00:32 wrote:No one who matters is really worried abt any goddam virus. Only actual human ppl who have beloved family or friends who are already v. old or v. sick. Or of course poor, the losers. Public healthcare has been ruined and run down worldwide for decades now by the same ruthless smirking cackling chinstroking solemn-silly timeserving careerist spacewasting selfworshipping zilionaire masters of the universe now pontifiicating on the world's tv sets, the same shits ppl are now begging for guidance + Strong Leadership from.

"Bernie", ffs

rachel fucking maddow

netflix n kill


I don't think anyone here ever thought Bernie Sanders was anything but the most politically expedient vehicle to get things we all agree should be the barest minimum requirements of any humane civilization into the US political conversation for the first time since the assassinations of the 1960s.

And it's pretty clear to me that Sanders himself never envisioned any role for himself further than that. The only positive change Sanders has ever accomplished is almost entirely due to his successful shaming of oligarchs who would like to feel a little better about their murderous despotism. Sanders has made his entire political career out of shaming oligarchs in this manner. That he is the best the US left has to offer says a lot more about the US left than it does about him.

As for Rachel Maddow, she has long since sold her soul for box seats with Ellen and Dubya.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby Harvey » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:47 pm

Point well made. What would be a rational response to the fact of nature? What would be a rational response to run-away heating? What would be a rational response to the grey goo of western junk culture, let alone the problems it creates just to continue along as it does?

In answer to the question posed by the thread title the obvious answer is, it would look something like Cuba. After provision is made for their population, excess resources (the so called 'fat') are then used by Cuba to aid other states in need, anyone who asks for help. Isn't this one of the few actual instances of international community we've witnessed in decades? Taking personal responsibility and all that? Simply contrast this with the criminels sans frontières in the UK/US. Both of whom essentially said, kill the elders. Let them pay.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:56 am

What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic entail?

That depends on what ends are being pursued and by whom. There is nothing irrational about culling the old, the sick, the poor, the superfluous and the uppity if what you're after is even more power and wealth for yourself and your class allies. A sober cost-benefit analysis would certainly persuade any rational investor to dump his doddery old mum, inherit her house and savings and invest those liquid assets asap in something that promises healthier returns in the short-to-medium term, say Amazon, 5G, biotech, smart weaponry.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:53 pm

MacCruiskeen » 28 Mar 2020 23:36 wrote:From yet another merged/ruined/ locked-down thread:

MacCruiskeen » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:49 am wrote:Dr Evil:

1. Insist on the immediate requisition of hotels (all now empty anyway) as emergency hospitals.

2. Call on all medical and nursing students,l (all now idle anyway) -- esp. those in their final year of study -- to report immediately for short intensive training in emergency medicine, esp. the treatment of acute respiratory crises, geriatric care, and the operation of medical respirators.

3. Step up the production of such respirators and any other medical equipment urgently needed. Issue a public appeal for people who may still have respirators at home to hand them into hospitals if they or their deceased relatives no longer need them.

4. Demand full and immediate and transparent data about which social groups are most at danger -- age, existing comorbidities, social class, housing situation, etc. (No one is asking for anyone's ID, ffs)

5. Call on advice and practical assistance from Cuban medics, who have decades of invaluable practical experience in such matters.

Etc.

Just for a start. All this was obvious weeks back. Any govts that truly cared about their people's welfare would have taken such steps long ago.


Thanks. This is the sort of stuff I was looking for. Does anybody else have any ideas about everything that obviously should be done in a pandemic but is not being done?
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby brekin » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:36 pm

One obvious thing would be to offer employment to everyone who currently is unemployed or underemployed in a national endeavor to fight covid.
Even from home many people could assist remotely in data entry, calling homes and orgs, coordinating efforts to assist with supply procurement and management, testing, relief efforts, distribution of goods, etc. Having everyone holed up at home watching netflix, next door and the news is a waste of human capital. Especially as currently the word is it is just a matter of time before the wave hits many cities and counties. Currently, information is horrible at the local and state level for many about what to do if x or y happens. And there is almost no coordination even though this is historically no surprise (humanity has always had to contend with mass disease outbreaks). For one there should be some version of an unarmed WW2 English Home Guard with a structure to centralize the effort.
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Re: What would a rational response to a deadly pandemic enta

Postby norton ash » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:49 pm



I want these old white men in charge instead.
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