The Limits of Science

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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:48 pm

So being absorbed in the ineffable is precisely not to know it. Being absorbed in the mind of god is not to know the mind of god, to put it poetically. But the mind of god is known by 'his face.' The 'voice' conceals the mind, but reveals its inner workings.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:59 pm

Saying that being absorbed in that which transcends understanding and description, transcends understanding and description. Like a bliss that passeth all understanding. But the transcendent is known, only through its being understood and 'descripted.' To know the transcendent requires a detachment from it, a space where understanding and description can take place.

Why care to be a knower of the transcendent, though. Some might say that's what we're really here to be. Like I was hidden, a treasure unknown, and I desired to be known, and so here we are. As the saying sort of goes.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby dada » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:55 pm

So here we have a manifestation of the highest paradox, being vs knowing. Angelologically, the first of the angelic hierophany as it is revealed to/in the body of knowlege/soul. The first angel is then the one who resolves the being vs knowing paradox. But already everything between the ineffable and a space for understanding and description to happen, had to be established before the first angel's appearance.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:01 am

I just lost a reply I worked an hour preparing. It's late and I've had a terrible evening after having had a chaotic week. Short version: Hadn't eaten anything today and was famished. I actually had no food left in the house to eat, so I had no choice but to go to the store at that late hour. Checking the weather online for the temperature outside before I left, I saw an alert posted there that we'd be experiencing blizzard conditions and frigid temperatures lasting until 1pm tomorrow. I had to rush there and back before the snow became deeper. I can't get up either of my driveways if there's a small build-up of snow. I looked outside and the drive was already covered with snow, so I called ahead to a restaurant 7 miles from home and ordered a sub and a couple slices of pizza to go. I picked up milk for my tea and cereal and a few muffins for breakfast, ran to the restaurant to pick-up my order and started home. I ran out of gas in a blizzard with 50 mph winds! Managed to get about 2 gallons of gas in the tank and made my way to refuel, which I didn't realize I needed to do before leaving the store. I never made it home, but I did manage to get back to the store for fuel. In the cold wind freezing and cursing my damned locking gas cap while fumbling with the key, I managed to get it off. One second later all power was lost. I actually stalled and coasted 1/4 mile to the perfect position at the gas pump. Seems I won Fates Lottery, or insulted somone with awsome powers. I'm going to bed. Stressful day!
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:49 am

I hope today is be much better, Iam. I had stocked up before our winter storm week before last, but when we lost both water and power, I realized it wasn't going to be possible to cook.It was a wretched, miserable week of shoveling snow into 5 gallon buckets and melting for water which is when I realized snow is mostly air. A week and a half later, there are still folks without water in my area, so I'm really thankful that my house is back to normal.
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:08 pm

Oh, Pele'sDaugter, thank you. Sorry you had such hardship. I have always had water and heat, My landlord has a generator and when we lose power, I'll run a 100' lead from it to power with my heat and hot water. Well water. But really, yesterday was a wasted day for me. I couldn't sleep much. My daughter's Papillon love me greatly, and I love him to, and I don't see him often. Monday evening he'd jump onto the sofa I was trying to sleep on and licked my face, but he has bad teeth and awful breath, so I'd gently cover my face so he couldn't keep licking me. Then, he'd wait until I fell asleep and then he'd start again, seeing I had by then pulled the blanket down from covering my face. And so, yesterday, after retrieving my truck, was a day of sleep and rest. Too tired to eat, I went to bed at 7am and slept until 10am, when I woke up and ate that damned meatball sub, before returning to bed and sleeping all day and night.

I'll now remember that you live in Texas. I was concerned for our RI Texans during the storm and long outage. I believe we still have a few.

Maybe I'll try to rewrite what was lost as I began by conveying my appreciation for Norton's comment which included my personal history with Neal Seldman, Co-founder of the Institute For Local Self-Reliance, and with Paul Connett, a now retired chemistry professor at St. Lawrence University, co-founder of Fluoride Action Network, and both are recognized worldwide for their expertise working with communities fighting proposed incinerators and with communities seeking self-reliance.

My comments for Norton primarily, will appear in the Fighting Monopolies thread.
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From Limits of Science to Limits of Technology

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:44 pm

Wow, love to both of you in the last couple of posts. Take care, and I'm glad you've both gotten through this okay.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:34 am

Thanks, Jack. G'night.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:40 pm

.

Excerpts that showcase not as much a limit to science, but an example of incorporating science as part of a larger, holistic assessment.
These passages incorporate aspects of science, religion/mysticism, and intuition.

From Darryl Reanney's After Death, A New Future For Human Consciousness.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


I previously quoted Paul Davies (referenced in the above screenshots) years ago, here:


Belligerent Savant » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:04 pm wrote:Credit to W.Rex for the subject heading...


Excerpt from God & The New Physics, by Paul Davies [initially published in 1983] --

Although the entropy of a general gravitating system is not known,
work by Jacob Bekenstein and Stephen Hawking, in which the
quantum theory is applied to black holes, has yielded a formula for the
entropy of these objects. As expected, it is enormously greater than the
entropy of, for instance, a star of the same mass. Assuming that the
relationship between entropy and probability extends to the gravitating
case, this result may be expressed in an interesting way. Given a
random distribution of (gravitating) matter, it is overwhelmingly
more probable that it will form a black hole than a star or a cloud of
dispersed gas. These considerations give a new slant, therefore, to the
question of whether the universe was created in an ordered or disordered
state. If the initial state were chosen at random, it seems
exceedingly probable that the big bang would have coughed out black
holes rather than dispersed gases. The present arrangement of matter
and energy, with matter spread thinly at relatively low density, in the
form of stars and gas clouds would, apparently, only result from a very
special choice of initial conditions. Roger Penrose has computed the
odds against the observed universe appearing by accident, given that a
black-hole cosmos is so much more likely on a priori grounds. He
estimates a figure of 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 30 to one.

The absence (or at least lack of predominance) of black holes is not
the only issue. The large scale structure and motion of the universe is
equally remarkable. The accumulated gravity of the universe operates
to restrain the expansion, causing it to decelerate with time. In the
primeval phase the expansion was much faster than it is today. The
universe IS thus the product of a competition between the explosive'
vigour of the big bang, and the force of gravity which tries to pull the
pieces back together again. In recent years, astrophysicists have come
to realize just how delicately this competition has been balanced Had,
the big bang been weaker, the cosmos would have soon fallen back on
itself in a big crunch. On the other hand, had it been stronger, the
cosmic material would have dispersed so rapidly that galaxies would
not have formed. Either way, the observed structure of the universe
seems to depend very sensitively on the precise matching of explosive
vigour to gravitating power.

Just how sensitively is revealed by calculation. At the so-called
Planck time (10 to the power of -43 seconds) (which is the earliest moment at which
the concept of space and time has meaning) the matching was accurate
to a staggering one part in 10 to the power of 60. That is to say, had the explosion
differed in strength at the outset by only one part in 10 to the power of 60,
the universe we now perceive would not exist. To give some meaning to these
numbers, suppose you wanted to fire a bullet at a one-inch target on the
other side of the observable universe, twenty billion light years away
Your aim would have to be accurate to that same part in 10 to the power of 60.
Quite apart from the accuracy of this overall matching, there is the
mystery of why the universe is so extraordinarily uniform, both in the
distribution of matter, and the rate of expansion. Most explosions are
chaotic affairs, and one might expect the big bang to have varied in its
degree of vigour from place to place. This was not so. The expansion
of the universe in our own cosmic neighbourhood is indistinguishable
in rate from that on the far side of the universe.
This coherence of behaviour over the whole cosmos seems all the
more remarkable when account is taken of what are known as light
horizons. When light spreads out across the universe it has to chase the
retreating galaxies which are being swept apart by the expansion. The
rate of recession of a galaxy depends on its distance from the observer.
Distant galaxies recede faster. Imagine a flash of light emitted from a
particular place at the instant of the creation.. The light will have
travelled about twenty billion light years across space by now.


Regions of the universe farther away than this will not yet have
received the light. Observers there would not be able to see the light
source. Conversely, observers near the light source would not be able
to see those regions. It follows that no observer in the universe can see
beyond twenty billion light years at this time. There is a sort of horizon
in space, which conceals everything that lies beyond. And because no
signal or influence can travel faster than light, it follows that no
physical connection at all can exist between regions of the universe
that lie beyond each other's horizon.
When telescopes are turned on the outer limits of the observable
universe, they probe regions that have apparently never been in causal
contact with each other. The reason is that distant regions which lie on
opposite sides of the sky as viewed from Earth are so far apart from
each other that they are beyond each other's horizon. The situation is
closely analogous to ordinary horizons. A lookout on a ship at sea may
just be able to discern two other ships - one ahead, one astern - near
his horizon, but these other ships will be invisible from each other
because of their greater separation. Similarly, the remote galaxies
which lie on opposite sides of the sky are located beyond each other's
light horizon. Because all physical influences or communications are
limited by the speed of light, it is not possible that these galaxies can
have coordinated their behaviour.

The mystery is, why are those regions of the universe that are
causally disconnected so similar in structure and behaviour? Why do
they contain galaxies of the same average size and form, retreating
from each other at the same rate? The mystery becomes all the more
profound when we realize that this behaviour is a remnant of long ago
when the galaxies first formed. But in the past light had travelled less
far since the creation, so the horizons were closer. At one million years
they were a million light years across, at one hundred years a hundred
light years, and so on. If we go back to the Planck time again, the
horizons were a mere 10 to the power of -33 cm in size. Even allowing
for the expansion of the universe, regions as small as this would not, according
to the standard theory, have swelled to a visible size by now. It seems that the
entire observable universe was, at that time, separated into at least 10 to the
power of 80 causally disconnected regions. How is it possible to explain this
cooperation without communication?

A related problem is the extreme degree of cosmic isotropy: uniformity
with orientation. Looking outwards from Earth, the universe presents the
same aspect on the large scale in whichever direction we choose to look.
Careful measurements of the relic cosmic background heat radiation show
that the incoming flux is accurately matched from all sides to better than one
part in a thousand . Had the big bang been a random event, such exceptional
uniformity would be almost impossibly unlikely.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby thrulookingglass » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:10 am

If there is a "God", why do we have to do anything? ANYTHING?!

He didn't know we'd need housing? Didn't know we'd need healthcare? An agricultural system? What do you expect to evolve towards if there is a "God"? Do you think he/it will ever let you rival its own (covetousness of) power? Didn't see some violent class struggle that would result from "God's" pyramidic love of power? It built the whole entire universe in (allegedly) six days but couldn't foresee brutal wars, violent rule of man and God, racisms, sexism, religious bigotry, vile deceitful kings? Though he absolutely had to drown the entire planet save for eight souls who just two generations down the line would turn putrid once more.

To give whatever created this place some credit, should there even be one, as if the cause of the universe couldn't be self fulfilling, life is astounding. There is a beauty to the universe that is hard to comprehend.

God's tamagotchis get little care.

The matrix master is sick. As above, so below. Rule through fear, violence, and terror must end.

Until we learn to love and serve each other, life will continue to suck.
Don't follow the way of (the biblical) God. The need/lust for power over others is a lethal affliction.
Truth doesn't set you free. In fact, it should compel you towards responsibility. I'll share with you one thing this "God" told me, you can find almost everything you want to know by looking inwards. You won't like what you find. The creature of man cannot help but reflect the arrogance of its "God". Male dominant rule, the right hand path. Awful. Too much masculine, far too little feminine. Koyaanisqatsi.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:20 pm

^^^ Peace be with you, thrulookingglass

Anyone catch this from 6 months ago?

Physicist: The Entire Universe Might Be a Neural Network

https://futurism.com/physicist-entire-universe-neural-network

this site has more: https://www.universetoday.com/148966/one-of-these-pictures-is-the-brain-the-other-is-the-universe-can-you-tell-which-is-which/

Image
A ~ Hippocampal mouse neuron studded with synaptic connections (yellow). The green central cell body is ? 10µm in diameter.
B ~ Cosmic web (Springel et al., 2005). Scale bar = 31.25 Mpc/h, or 1.4 × 1024 m.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NIr2zYtHRQ

And here's an exhibit, "As above, so below," a collaboration of artists and physicists: https://www.sciartmagazine.com/collaboration-as-above-as-below.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM3gDjb3phU
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:54 pm

Thanks mate.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:51 am

The Limits of Science is really the limited patience of the trainer of the apprentice:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DcfIwxOT3U

I'm scheduled for major surgery on Monday, so, If I kick off and can't make it back - well, it's been a great ride and I've met many wonderful people here, some not so wonderful, but nevertheless memorable, and I've learned what a 'bump' is. (It's not a chest bump, which I first thought odd if it was!) and much much more. It's been fun and sometimes not so much, so thank you all. If all goes well, I'll return in a few weeks if I'm able and the anesthesiologist doesn't kill off the few still working neurons playing craps in my brain

I promise not to accuse all the folks I'll see wearing masks of being deep state conspirators, and I won't tell them they are silly to think masks are at all protective, because the fungus they hoard has already eaten half their brain and it's not nice to make fun of the disabled.

Hope to see you again - soon.
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby PufPuf93 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:01 am

Iamwhomiam » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:51 pm wrote:The Limits of Science is really the limited patience of the trainer of the apprentice:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DcfIwxOT3U

I'm scheduled for major surgery on Monday, so, If I kick off and can't make it back - well, it's been a great ride and I've met many wonderful people here, some not so wonderful, but nevertheless memorable, and I've learned what a 'bump' is. (It's not a chest bump, which I first thought odd if it was!) and much much more. It's been fun and sometimes not so much, so thank you all. If all goes well, I'll return in a few weeks if I'm able and the anesthesiologist doesn't kill off the few still working neurons playing craps in my brain

I promise not to accuse all the folks I'll see wearing masks of being deep state conspirators, and I won't tell them they are silly to think masks are at all protective, because the fungus they hoard has already eaten half their brain and it's not nice to make fun of the disabled.

Hope to see you again - soon.


Be well as you can be Iamwhomiam.

Know that there is a stranger thinking the best for you that appreciates the time and care you contribute to RI. :hug1:
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Re: The Limits of Science

Postby Harvey » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:12 am

Healing thoughts on their way.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


Eden Ahbez
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