On mRNA/Gene Therapy

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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby dada » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:08 am

So I think that discussion of methodological approaches to the study of the real isn't off topic in this thread, it's only off topic if we wish to enforce limitations on the topic, to statistical analysis of dead message-objects.

The wish is to enforce limitatons on the methodological approach to the topic, thought is permitted to approach it dialectically, and only dialectically. The hermeneutic approach has no place in the limited topic. The limits are limits of method, of certain thinking processes themselves.

But I think the aversion to the hermeneutic approach may arise from a misunderstanding of it. The misunderstanding itself comes from thought caving into the temptation to peel back all the phenomenological layers at once, to get right to the bottom, or top, of the matter at hand. Doing this, though, changes the interpretation of the bottom or top of the matter at hand. The hermeneutic approach is the peeling back of the layers, or making transparent, one at a time. This reveals the language with which the bottom or top of the matter at hand is interpreted. By skipping right to the bottom, or top, the last, or first, layer is seen, but misinterpreted. Like reading the last chapter in a book in another language.

Of course the analogy of the book is a poor analogy, but it gets the point across. Really the phenomenological layers are found throughout the book. The entire book is peeled back, layer by layer, or each layer is revealed through the succession of transparencies. Thinking that the last chapter of the book is where the base layer of the hermeneutic is found itself leads to grave misinterpretations.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby DrEvil » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:27 am

Karmamatterz » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:57 pm wrote:
All these figures are from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, which together with the Department of Health and Social Care, Public Health England and the NHS, has denied any causal connection between the vaccines and the 847 deaths.


Because it's science, is that why they are deniers?

Or because that program and department is in the pocket of companies which will go to great lengths to ensure their profit, and narrative that all vaccines are safe?

It's wildly incredible that anyone would believe one word of what they say.


That doesn't exactly increase my faith in the numbers posted. Seems we are in agreement that the numbers are dubious, only for different reasons.

1000 reported adverse reactions doesn't mean 1000 adverse reactions.


Would the same context apply to the 500k or so alleged deaths in the U.S. that have been attributed to Covid, even though many of them might not have even been infected, but simply had traces of Sars-Cov-2 in their body?
The words "cases" and "infection" have been used by both health care professionals and the media with both using the words incorrectly in multiple instances.


I've been trying to get BelSav to cough up a more realistic number for actual deaths in the US from covid, but no luck. Do you have an estimate? All I hear is "it's not 500K", usually followed by two pages of Twitter screenshots, but never the actual number.

Then there is the PCR "tests" that are entirely bogus.

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/25/who ... stic-test/
From the WHO:
"Most PCR assays are indicated as an aid for diagnosis, therefore, health care providers must consider any result in combination with timing of sampling, specimen type, assay specifics, clinical observations, patient history, confirmed status of any contacts, and epidemiological information."

Yet the numbers keep going up with cases and infections while this PCR test is used. The narrative doesn't change, they can't change it now. Facts and data don't matter to the medical mafia, media, government officials or schills paid off by pharma. Nobody is going to go back and correct the data, why would they? Death certificates in the U.S. allow for much latitude to include Covid as a reason for death, even if the cause of death is entirely something other than this "virus."


The trouble with PCR tests is that they exist in reality, and reality kinda sucks. It doesn't have perfect solutions and things are often messy, so we make do with what we have.

PCR tests are accurate-ish (lots of variables so hard to pin down exact numbers), so if a hundred thousand people test positive, then most of them, but not all, are positive, so it's a good tool to track spread in populations, not so much for individual cases. So, good for statistics, bad for diagnostics, but better than nothing.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby dada » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:44 pm

So the limitations on thinking process prevent analysis of thinking process itself. Truth and obfuscations, fact and opinions, fiction and realities expressed, "give you something to think about," "something to chew on." But the expressions reveal choices made on personal scales of importance, a system of valorization. The thought expressed reveals the thinking method behind the presentation. The thought expressed is intentional, but the revelation of the method is expressed unintentionally.

Most of the time, at least. But even intentional expression of revelation of method may unintentionally reveal unconscious processes, processes which the presenter may themselves at first be unaware of.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:48 pm

.

Re: realistic #s for COVID: perhaps impossible to calculate or determine -- ever -- given how metrics have been occluded, manipulated and conflated, among other sorcery conjured by modern-day wizards, AKA 'modeling statisticians', bureaucrats, or simply those following orders. Last year there was a report that as much as ~94% of the deaths listed as 'covid' were due at least in part to more serious illness, but the deceased tested positive at the time of death -- or had flu-like symptoms. This figure sounds right to me. The more time that passes the clearer it is that we've been egregiously scammed, particularly since they've yet to isolate the covid-19 strain.

Getting back to the vaccines:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ijcp.13795

Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID‐19 vaccines worsening clinical disease

Timothy Cardozo
Ronald Veazey
First published: 28 October 2020
https://doi.org/10.1111/ijcp.13795


Abstract
Aims of the study

Patient comprehension is a critical part of meeting medical ethics standards of informed consent in study designs. The aim of the study was to determine if sufficient literature exists to require clinicians to disclose the specific risk that COVID‐19 vaccines could worsen disease upon exposure to challenge or circulating virus.

Methods used to conduct the study

Published literature was reviewed to identify preclinical and clinical evidence that COVID‐19 vaccines could worsen disease upon exposure to challenge or circulating virus. Clinical trial protocols for COVID‐19 vaccines were reviewed to determine if risks were properly disclosed.
Results of the study

COVID‐19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralising antibodies may sensitise vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated. Vaccines for SARS, MERS and RSV have never been approved, and the data generated in the development and testing of these vaccines suggest a serious mechanistic concern: that vaccines designed empirically using the traditional approach (consisting of the unmodified or minimally modified coronavirus viral spike to elicit neutralising antibodies), be they composed of protein, viral vector, DNA or RNA and irrespective of delivery method, may worsen COVID‐19 disease via antibody‐dependent enhancement (ADE). This risk is sufficiently obscured in clinical trial protocols and consent forms for ongoing COVID‐19 vaccine trials that adequate patient comprehension of this risk is unlikely to occur, obviating truly informed consent by subjects in these trials.

Conclusions drawn from the study and clinical implications

The specific and significant COVID‐19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical ethics standard of patient comprehension for informed consent.


@denisrancourt
·
In plain language: Established science shows that there is a significant risk and potential for lethal harm, yet the COVID vaccination protocols are hiding that risk rather than disclosing it. Therefore, the medical ethics rule of informed consent is systemically violated.

https://twitter.com/denisrancourt/statu ... 65293?s=20
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby DrEvil » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:43 am

^^
Last year there was a report that as much as ~94% of the deaths listed as 'covid' were due at least in part to more serious illness, but the deceased tested positive at the time of death -- or had flu-like symptoms.


Yet another lie/distortion. If someone with a compromised immune system or a bad heart get covid and dies then it was covid that tipped them over the edge and killed them, even though they already had underlying conditions. Without covid they could have gone on for years with proper care. All that report said was that sick and frail people were more at risk.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby Karmamatterz » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:33 pm

Yet another lie/distortion. If someone with a compromised immune system or a bad heart get covid and dies then it was covid that tipped them over the edge and killed them, even though they already had underlying conditions. Without covid they could have gone on for years with proper care. All that report said was that sick and frail people were more at risk.


That is a grossly simplified and just as much disinfo, or more than what you claim. Most of the dead don’t have autopsies performed unless there is something suspicious or questionable. MANY elderly that die, which is by far the largest segment of alleged deaths by the Rona, would not have had an autopsy in the U.S. anybody with elderly in their family would know this based on personal experience.

Without an autopsy the docs can fill out whatever they want and with great latitude based on the new instructions the CDC published in 2020 allowing enormous latitude in putting the Rona as the primary cause. What do you imagine the administrators of these hospitals is going to be pushing hard for?

$$$$$

The more deaths attributed to Rona the bigger the reimbursement check from there Feds. Medicine is a business.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:22 pm

Dr. Evil,

Can you supply any data that compare the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese Americans to the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese American (categorized) COVID-19 victims?

If not, why not?
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby DrEvil » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:33 am

stickdog99 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:22 pm wrote:Dr. Evil,

Can you supply any data that compare the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese Americans to the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese American (categorized) COVID-19 victims?

If not, why not?


I can't be arsed.

If you want to make a point it should be easy for you to gather the data in question and clobber me over the head with it.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby stickdog99 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:36 pm

DrEvil » 26 Apr 2021 15:33 wrote:
stickdog99 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:22 pm wrote:Dr. Evil,

Can you supply any data that compare the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese Americans to the average age of mortality of obese and non-obese American (categorized) COVID-19 victims?

If not, why not?


I can't be arsed.

If you want to make a point it should be easy for you to gather the data in question and clobber me over the head with it.


If you don't have any data on this, exactly what justifies your stanch belief that COVID-19 has killed and continues to kill millions before their time?

Note that I am not saying that these data do not exist. I simply can't find any myself So in lieu of these data, I tend toward agnosticism concerning the supposed lethality of COVID-19. How about you?.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby DrEvil » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:04 pm

My perfectly anecdotal opinion on the lethality is that I know four old people who caught the bug. Three of them died and one barely made it (two each in the UK and the US). A good friend of mine had to bury both his parents, but had to wait several weeks because there was a line. Maybe it's a coincidence that they all died shortly after testing positive, but I doubt it.

Or take the official US tally, which right now stands at 572000. Some of those are mislabeled suspected cases, some of them are just mislabeled, like car crash victims who tested positive post-mortem, but not 572000 of them.

Even if half of that total is bogus you're left with almost 300K dead people in one year. Hell, even if two thirds is bogus you're left with five flu seasons worth of dead people in one year.

I think covid is lethal for the old, sick, smokers and overweight people. Young people are mostly fine and probably suffer more from the countermeasures than the virus itself. Problem is the first category of people is a third of the population in most western countries, and you can't impose countermeasures but leave out two thirds of people and expect good results.

Someone should set up a new thread with a poll: do you know anyone who died from covid? If yes, how many?
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby Karmamatterz » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:32 pm

I personally know only 2 people who actually got sick and tested positive. What they experienced was nearly identical to the typical case of influenza with the added loss of smell for a few days.

I'm a social creature have friends from coast to coast and do not know of anyone in any social circle who had someone die on them. I know of zero people in the town where I live that have had it.

Looks like we also need to pull some data from the CDC to show how Covid cured the flu as those numbers are way down.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby dada » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:39 pm

"Perhaps if I was flying solo I'd read it along similar lines. But with school-aged children (and a 'career' that previously included visits to an office setting) it's been a markedly distinct experience, unfortunately"

Thinking about this. Wondering if one thinks that way, then one can never really know for sure if flying solo is no different in every way that matters, and any differences are all just cosmetic. Then how one reads wouldn't be a matter of these differences, one would have to admit that ways of reading are all about what you do with the same thing.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby dada » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:04 pm

You know, people with school-aged children draw all sorts of conclusions from what they read, some of them leading to totally opposite choices. Same with people who have carreers that are adequate for continued movement through Internet.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby dada » Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:25 pm

So basically, if you are questioned under oath as to when was the last time you beat your wife, it puts you in a bad light in the eyes of the jury whether you have a wife or not.

And I'd answer the question with another, say when was the last time you beat your horse. Beat my heart with a holy stick.
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Re: On mRNA/Gene Therapy

Postby elfismiles » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:22 pm

COVID-19 alters human genes, explaining mystery behind coronavirus ‘long haulers’
https://www.studyfinds.org/covid-alters ... g-haulers/

gene "therapy" every-which-way but out
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