Uvalde (& Mass shooting events - root causes, etc.)

[Belligerent Savant]

.
Why did law enforcement wait ~over an hour to enter the school? There may be a number of 'human nature'/fear-based/'protocol failure' reasons for this, but malevolent/nefarious causes can't be ruled out. It gets uglier the deeper one digs.

And then there's the shooter, and his motives. To what extent this tragedy mimics prior school shootings, etc.

Some prelim data points/breadcrumbs:

@DeemTheDreem

Yeah, this is wild. They essentially escorted dude to this shooting, then waited outside until he was done.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... 1-teacher/

https://twitter.com/DeemTheDreem/status ... IUTrpEdBAw

@DeemTheDreem
·
Video below shows that police also actively prevented other people (parents) from intervening, in addition to giving the shooter as much time as possible before "killing him:"

@Star5AtNight
·
Replying to @AndySpecht and @AP

Video of Uvalde parents with cops -- "y'all keep fighting with us, go fight that mfer!"

[video at link]

https://twitter.com/DeemTheDreem/status ... IUTrpEdBAw

@DeemTheDreem

story somehow keeps getting worse:

Saagar Enjeti
@esaagar

A Uvalde mother was PLACED IN HANDCUFFS by Federal Marshalls on scene for attempting to enter the school to get her child. Another man was tased for trying to get his kid off a bus. All while Salvador Ramos was alive inside killing kids

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-res ... thor_alert

https://twitter.com/esaagar/status/1529 ... IUTrpEdBAw

u/Lilyo
15 hours ago

the cops at Uvalde literally stood outside and refused to go in after the shooter and even stopped parents from helping their kids

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout ... urce=share

UVALDE, Texas— The gunman behind the mass shooting at an elementary school here lingered outside the building for 12 minutes firing shots before walking into the school and barricading in a classroom where he killed 19 children and two teachers, authorities said in a news conference Thursday laying out a new timeline of events.

Victor Escalon, a regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said he couldn’t say why no one stopped the now deceased gunman, 18 year-old Salvador Ramos, from entering the school during that time Tuesday. Most of the shots Ramos fired came during the first several minutes when he entered the school, Mr. Escalon said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-res ... 1653588161

The following is unverified/can not be confirmed as genuine at this time (Re: the posting ascribed to an "Armand" handle on Telegram, and the claim this "Armand" handle has ties to other shooters/shootings):

@ClwnWrldDiaries

4chan dig linked the buffalo shooter w/ the Texas one.
They may have been members of the same discord server where user ‘Armand’ is suspected of grooming them. He posts ‘Texas 13 Days’ & the attack happened 13 days later.

https://twitter.com/ClwnWrldDiaries/sta ... IUTrpEdBAw

[DrEvil]

That last one is a white supremacist posting a screenshot from someone who is surprised that there's been two mass shootings in one month (and then proceeds to label this shooter a "mutt tranny"), which is of course completely wrong. There's been 45 mass shootings in the US so far in May. Well over two hundred this year.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/repo ... s-shooting

The cops waiting outside is just them being the fucking cowards that they are. They only shoot black, unarmed people on the spot, and only if there's no risk to themselves.

For-profit healthcare, so the massive numbers of poor people don't have access, coupled with more guns than your average war zone = death and destruction.

[Marionumber1]

The cops waiting outside is just them being the fucking cowards that they are. They only shoot black, unarmed people on the spot, and only if there's no risk to themselves.

I don't think it's possible to conclude so definitively whether it was just cowardice or something more sinister. The fact that police were not merely failing to intervene, but actively stopping (pinning, handcuffing, tasing) parents who were trying to go in and save their children makes me pretty suspicious that there is more at play with law enforcement's actions.

[MacCruiskeen]

Why do people now so unquestioningly accept that this is the kind of thing anyone at all is ever likely to do? The lazy pseudo-explanation "mental illness" is just a thoughtstopper; it explains precisely nothing. Massacring tiny schoolchildren at random is a very different thing from a revenge killing at work ("going postal") or an act of jealous rage and despair (family homicide-suicides). It makes no emotional or psychological sense whatsoever.

There was a case a couple of years ago where the family of a disturbed 18-year-old boy sued the FBI for trying (unsuccessfully) to persuade him to perform a mass murder. If I can find the link again, I'll post it.

[Grizzly]

https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/status/1529584296415186952?t=3LAxXCoo-X2xda7AlDc9ig&s=19

The cops ran in to save their own kids, then they roughed up the parents of other kids.

It gets worse:
https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1529708434995683329

https://www.kens5.com/article/news/special-reports/uvalde-school-shooting/its-time-to-die-fourth-grade-survivor-uvalde-shooting-recalls-what-gunman-told-student/273-51cc4e26-7a0a-49c0-ba7a-48cdd47fa235

additional kid died directly because the cops were incompetent. “When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.'

The [shooter] overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said.

and worse...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uvalde-residents-voice-frustration-over-shooting-response-11653588161

A mom of two children at Uvalde was put in handcuffs after urging police and law enforcement to enter the school.

Once freed from her cuffs, she jumped the school fence, ran inside and sprinted out with her kids.

New from @WSJ

Cops stood outside the school while the killer rampaged inside.

Onlookers yelled at them to go in. They didn’t.

"One parent urged bystanders: “Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to.”
"Spoiler: that parent’s daughter died in the attack while he was begging cops to save the kids. My God."

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683


https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683

The Uvalde shooter was killed by a federal officer because the other police officers kept waiting for more and more backup

<*))))><

Meanwhile:

Canadian national security task force is preparing for the collapse of the United States
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/canadian-national-security-task-force-is-preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-united-states/ar-AAXFOgj?ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=1d4e9ca0267c4e3f989aeab94100383f



https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-report/2021/crisis-reform-call-strengthen-americas-battered-democracy#footnote2_mf63alg



Addendum:


How many so far under Obiden?

[drstrangelove]

Root cause is notoriety and the media's willingness to glorify the act by publishing the face and name of the shooter. This is well-known and why these events happen in clusters. The phenomenon has traditionally been linked to copycat suicides, dubbed the Werther effect, after a popular Goethe book romanticised suicide among young men in Germany back in the 19th century. Same thing occurred in Vienna and Japan with subway suicides in the 80s and 90s. Same thing happened with that netflix show '13 reasons why'.

Sure the gun issue plays a role. The 2nd amendment is there to ensure an even distribution of weapons to maintain an even distribution of power. This could still be achieved without the need for military rifles etc. The point is to enable a population to effectively carry out a guerrilla war against its government, not win a war against its government. Handguns and shotguns can achieve this.

It's an observable trend that throughout history the distribution of weapons in a society correlated to the distribution of power - so far as one's ability to say 'no', and as such the amount of liberty. During periods of citizen armies governments were less repressive. During periods of private armies more repressive. The reason China turned out the way it is' is because an imperial government around 221 BC built the great wall then eliminated all internal fortifications and weapons, making farmers completely reliant on the imperial army and the bureaucracy beneath it.

Anyway, clear to me that corporate media, owned by oligarchs that want less liberty, are intentionally amplifying the frequency of these events to put pressure on gun laws. However, do also think the current gun laws in the US are lax and wouldn't be opposed, if i lived there, to do away with military assault rifles. Not my business though. I haven't looked into the proposed bills themselves, which maybe include poison pills etc. but at face value the proposed gun laws don't seem unreasonable to me.

So long as people have the ability to kill government mercenaries, not defeat them, then the gun deterrent will work because the government will get so weak having to fight against its citizens that it will just get invaded by a competing power.

[drstrangelove]

notice how at live sporting events broadcasting networks take the cameras off the field of play if a spectator or protesters runs onto it seeking attention?

the networks know what they are doing.

[conniption]

Sarah Lazare
@sarahlazare
Jeh Johnson makes $325,000 a year as a director at Lockheed Martin, whose 227kg laser-guided MK 82 bomb liquidated a school bus in Yemen Aug 2018, killing 40 children.

Stephanie Ruhle@SRuhle May 25
Last night former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson told me that America needs an Emmett Till moment.
We need to see the photos-the images of slaughtered innocent children in Texas.
It is the only was to wake America from this defeated haze & take REAL ACTION on guns.

1:50 PM · May 25, 2022·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/sarahlazare/status/ ... H3jboqAAAA

[Belligerent Savant]

.
This type of news item seems to recur each time there's a 'look back' of shooter activities in the preceding days. One may argue the FBI receives an influx of such reports daily, and simply can't address all of them in timely manner. I wouldn't know -- not sure there's any data publicly available on this.

@RetroTechNoir

BREAKING: The #UvaldeMassacre shooter posted his plans online and was reported to the FBI, who apparently took no action

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sacre.html

https://twitter.com/RetroTechNoir/statu ... BMQg3h553A

REVEALED: Female online gamer reported fellow player - now suspected to be Salvador Ramos - who threatened to 'shoot up a school with an AR-15' to the FBI just hours before Uvalde elementary school massacre

Gamer said they recorded another player threatening to 'shoot up a school' online after losing at a video game only days before Salvador Ramos killed 21 people

The user said she reported the outburst to the FBI before the school massacre

A friend of Ramos' said he would 'talk about school shootings all the time' while playing Call of Duty but 'everyone on the game always thought he was joking'

Are you the female gamer who reported the shooter? Email us at hannah.parry@mailonline.com

A female gamer reported a fellow online player to the FBI after he threatened to 'shoot up a school' when he lost their game - just hours before 18-year-old gunman Salvador Ramos killed 21 people in a Texas school massacre.

The woman, who has not been identified, was playing horror survival game Dead by Daylight - with four other people online where they are only known as their 'gamer tag' on Tuesday.

In the game, four players are assigned the role of 'The Survivors' who must hide and survive another player: 'The killer'. If caught, the survivors are impaled on hooks and sacrificed.

But she became disturbed when she recorded a male gamer playing the 'killer' launching a furious tirade when he lost and 'started saying they were going to shoot up a school'.

The 'killer' even claimed they would use an AR-15.

This is the same weapon Ramos used just a few hours later when he shot his grandmother in the face, then drove to Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, where he shot dead 19 children and two teachers.

After the male gamer began making the threats, the female gamer recorded them an sent the audio to the FBI, along with the creators of the game, Behaviour Interactive.

'They mentioned they had some type of gun and kept saying it was going to be all of our fault,' said the player on Reddit.

'I recorded the entire postchat and we all kind of brushed it off as him just saying edge lord type sh*t,' she wrote in r/deadbydaylight, the game's subreddit.

'But I just am like in disbelief because I've never seen someone say that before.'

She added that she 'did report them to the FBI' but said that she was 'a little stressed because when i went back to watch exactly what they said the person said “what if i shoot up a school tomorrow : ) ”'

Asked by another Reddit user if she thinks the outburst was linked to the school shooting, she replied: 'I don’t know, the gun he mentioned was an ar15 with i think an extend clip or something but i don’t know. i feel horrible for those children and families.'

A source told The Sun that Ramos was known for making threats online while playing video games.

'I do know someone that used to play Call of Duty with him online and he would talk about school shootings all the time but everyone on the game always thought he was joking,' the paper reported a female Instagram friend of Ramos' as saying.

Dead by Daylight is inspired by slasher-horror films such as A Nightmare on Elm Street, and other survival-horror media.

The game's developers told MailOnline that they have a strict reporting process for reporting real life threats made during gameplay.

'All reports filed by players are acted upon in a timely manner,' a spokesman said. 'That said, we unfortunately can’t share specific details publicly.

'Creating a safe space where our fans feel secure is a core value for Dead by Daylight.

'That’s why we have an active team dedicated to offering them support and monitoring activities communicated to them via the in-game reporting system.

'In the case of potential real-life threats, we have strict reporting processes involving cybercrime units to ensure that each situation is addressed by competent authorities.'

MailOnline has approached the FBI for comment.

Detailed/repeat reference to the type of gun and clip. Excessive violent gaming. It's times like this when it seems practically everything reported in the news is first reviewed and edited to maximize sentiment/reaction (well, of course the news media sensationalizes. But perhaps tactics are modified further following certain events).

A testament to a broken culture. "chickens coming home to roost" (Malcolm X nod).

Or the possibility remains he was primed and groomed as well. It can't be ruled out.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Also, this should be corroborated/substantiated. How did this shooter -- a minimally employed 18 yr old -- obtain all this equipment/vehicle? I understand there are relatively benign plausible explanations (he saved up over time, he stole some of it, some of it may not be as expensive as assumed, etc), but timing -- in this market -- is also a factor. Gun and car prices have gone up quite a bit over the past ~year (not to mention scarce availability of AR15s). Did he have help in obtaining all this?
(I haven't looked at any images/videos of the scene, so don't know if it's confirmed he was wearing body armor, or if the vehicle reported below is verifiably tied to him -- he may have borrowed it, or stolen it)



https://twitter.com/DramaQueenRoxx/stat ... BMQg3h553A

[Wombaticus Rex]

A friend of Ramos' said he would 'talk about school shootings all the time' while playing Call of Duty but 'everyone on the game always thought he was joking'

Are you the female gamer who reported the shooter? Email us at hannah.parry@mailonline.com

Not saying it ain't genuine but it definitely ain't verified. They are reporting a twitter thread as fact, never a wise move. There has been a lot of that, there always is: jokes become screenshots become facts become discourse in the space of about ten minutes on Bluebird. And there have been a lot of sockpuppet accounts offering viral personal testimonies in the aftermath of Uvalde.

It's been astonishing to watch the narrative unravel on this latest atrocity and I cannot help but wonder if that wasn't the point. It will get harder to discern the difference between cynical ops and outright systemic collapse with every passing month. Definitely expecting some WWIII grade happenings in Sept-Oct.

There is very little actual information on the case at this point, just statements from "authorities" who are revising their story in real time. Don't read too much into anything.

[Belligerent Savant]

There is very little actual information on the case at this point, just statements from "authorities" who are revising their story in real time. Don't read too much into anything.

Sound advice.

[Wombaticus Rex]

I don't think this is cross-posting because it may turn out to be directly relevant:

Via Buffalo News

Law enforcement officers are investigating whether a retired federal agent had about 30 minutes advance notice of a white supremacist's plans to murder Black people at a Buffalo supermarket, two law enforcement officials told The Buffalo News.

Authorities believe the former agent – believed to be from Texas – was one of at least six individuals who regularly communicated with accused gunman Payton Gendron in an online chat room where racist hatred was discussed, the two officials said.

The two law enforcement sources with direct knowledge of the investigation stated these individuals were invited by Gendron to read about his mass shooting plans and the target location about 30 minutes before Gendron killed 10 people at Tops Markets on Jefferson Avenue on May 14.

The News could not determine if the retired agent accepted the invitation.

“These were like-minded people who used this chat group to talk about their shared interests in racial hatred, replacement theory and hatred of anyone who is Jewish, a person of color or not of European ancestry,” said one of the two law enforcement officials with close knowledge of the investigation. “What is especially upsetting is that these six people received advanced notice of the Buffalo shooting, about 30 minutes before it happened.

“The FBI has verified that none of these people called law enforcement to warn them about the shooting. The FBI database shows no advance tips from anyone that this shooting was about to happen.”

Agents from the FBI are in the process of tracking down and interviewing the six people, including the retired agent, and attempting to determine if any of them should be charged as accomplices, the two sources with close knowledge of the probe told The Buffalo News.

The two sources did not identify the agent by name and could not confirm what federal agency he worked for.

The Buffalo FBI Office declined to comment on the investigation. The U.S. Attorney's Office in Buffalo declined through a spokeswoman to comment.

Buffalo civil rights attorney John V. Elmore said it will be outrageous if it turns out that a former law enforcement officer had advance notice of the shooting and did nothing to prevent it.

...

Attorney Terrence M. Connors, who is representing several families who lost loved ones in the shooting, said: “As outrageous as this may sound, based upon what we are finding in our investigation, it is not surprising.” He declined to reveal the evidence his law firm has collected.

The New York Times reported May 17 that Gendron invited a small group of people into a private chat room on the messaging platform Discord to review his plan about 30 minutes before the massacre at Tops. The Washington Post reported two days later that 15 people accepted Gendron's invitation into the Discord chat room and were able to review his plan and watch his live stream video as he committed the killings.

Federal authorities are investigating if the retired agent provided information to Gendron before he went on his shooting spree, the two law enforcement officials told The News.

In addition to law enforcement sources, two other individuals with knowledge of the mass shooting investigation have also confirmed that federal authorities are looking into the former agent’s relationship to the shooter.

The Sandman

FBI agents are also trying to determine the identity of an individual Gendron calls “Sandman,” and “Saint Sandman” in his lengthy social media diary that appeared on Discord 30 minutes before the attack, the sources said.

In the diary, Gendron indicates Sandman counseled him on manufacturers of AR-15 semi-automatic rifles and their quality. The shooter purchased and allegedly used that type of assault rifle in the rampage, which local authorities have said was fueled by his racial hatred.

In the document Gendron posted on Discord just prior to the shooting, he references Sandman three times.

In a passage dated May 2, he quoted Saint Sandman as saying: "When the time finally comes to deal decisively with a whole host of society's problems, and not go to prison for it, you'll know. Just be ready. You have spent your entire life, from the day you were born, right up to this very moment, reading this sentence, coming to where you are right now. Look around you. Are you content with where you are right now? Are you where you want to be? If so, continue to march. If not, what are you going to do? What's your plan? Get and keep your mind, body, and spirit right. Pray. Lift. Run. Read. Shoot. And teach your kids to do those things.”

A third law enforcement source told The News they are aware of Gendron’s writings involving the quality of different rifles. The shooter ended up using a Bushmaster X-15, a version of the AR-15 rifle, police have reported.

"Oh, and here's the right kind of rifle. Thanks for reading."

[JackRiddler]

Sure the gun issue plays a role. The 2nd amendment is there to ensure an even distribution of weapons to maintain an even distribution of power. This could still be achieved without the need for military rifles etc. The point is to enable a population to effectively carry out a guerrilla war against its government, not win a war against its government. Handguns and shotguns can achieve this.

Not at all. It's there primarily to assure the states entering the republic could maintain their own militias and not have to rely on the new federal government or other states for protection against Indians, slave uprisings, the British, other empires, etc. Madison (for example, not mentioning him as anything like sole cause but he was officially the author of the Bill of Rights) and many others had a militia romance and believed militias were more effective militarily than central armies. The other point (of several) was to enable governments with fast-and-ready forces in case of slave uprisings or Indian/Spanish attacks. The inversion of this that you present here is a modern reading into the text quite contrary to what the framers or the crafters of this amendment intended. I don't see how they could have made it more clear that aside from the slaves and Indians they considered their own free people to be the most dangerous enemy (democracy as "tyranny") and that their intent was to write the first and last constitution ever, extremely difficult even to amend. "Guerilla war" from their own citizens was precisely the opposite of anything they'd countenance. (Note: big-talking Jefferson & co. weren't framers.)

Maybe you should look at the actual history, the first cases when real militias were mustered. First case, to invade the Middle Ground (Ohio Territory) so as to make good on all that delicious land speculation the likes of Washington had led a war to preserve against the British in the first place. It went disastrously, after which a first federal army was organized under "Mad Anthony" Wayne. Second, they were mustered and organized under central command to suppress the Whiskey tax revolt in western PA. Under Hamilton's command, no less. That was a case of "well-regulated militia" called by the government to defend "the security of a free State" against "guerilla warfare" by the people who opposed a genuinely unjust tax. So the opposite.

It's not that your view has no history, it's that it is an anti-federalist history and contrary to any honest originalist reading of the Constitution or the 2nd Amendment. There's no case here on "intent" of the text or the framers.

The reason China turned out the way it is' is because an imperial government around 221 BC built the great wall then eliminated all internal fortifications and weapons, making farmers completely reliant on the imperial army and the bureaucracy beneath it.

Since when were farmers the builders of fortifications that could turn back regular armies? Sadly they'd already been subject to bandits and tribute-takers for thousands of years, not just in China, and your assumption about how they might have felt about the protection of a central government suppressing said banditry and the parasitism of intermediate nobility is debatable. If you're thinking of castles, then most of those are held by competing warrior castes a.k.a. nobilities. If they're busy building castles and piling up weapons they don't have time to farm, they have serfs for that sort of thing. That's whose castles the more ambitious would-be monarchs and emperors among the warrior castes like to demolish, and not just in China but in countless cases around the globe, from before 221 BC down to today.

Also, if you think properly about it, you just described the creation of a large internal market without barriers to the free circulation of goods.

So long as people have the ability to kill government mercenaries, not defeat them, then the gun deterrent will work because the government will get so weak having to fight against its citizens that it will just get invaded by a competing power.

Hilarity. "Killing government mercenaries" (usually labeled "terrorism") in the real world of actual histories you can read provides the pretexts and contexts for escalations and pacifications and build-outs of the government security apparatus. In the absence of such "deterrence", governments seeking to increase their security powers have been known even to fabricate it, a practice the research of which in part is the reason this site exists.

And if you knew your over-armed Americans, you'd know that their imagined revolt against a tyrannical government of liberals on television would likeliest play out as their deputization as loyal militias under the leadership of a tyrannical governor and the LEOs against some fabricated threat of foreign terrorists, immigrants, revolutionaries, race warriors, Black Panthers, etc.

.

[JackRiddler]

PS - Thanks WR for the good material posted, to which I have nothing to add. The things we object to are usually the things that cause the most response, but I wanted to make sure to give some praise (for doing what should be a routine thing the right way) where it's too often left out.

.