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Belligerent Savant » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:40 pm wrote:First, comments by 2 women:Madame Kempe
@MadameKempe
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Jun 24
I’m going to give an alternative view here, from the pro-choice perspective — that Roe was in fact an instance of judicial overreach, and that these issues should have been decided democratically through the legislature, not through the courts ruling from on high.
Yvon Wang 王弋文
@yyvonwang Replying to @MadameKempe
I agree entirely (as did RBG years ago, iirc). And Dems deserve only critique for not summoning their energies to actually enshrine these protections--instead using Roe as a kind of hostage for our votes.
2:27 PM · Jun 24, 2022·Twitter Web App
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https://fergie.substack.com/p/roe-rever ... s-as-usualRoe Reversal is Business as Usual
Petit Bourgeois individualism, the unending narrowness of the American "Left," and the Death Cult called the "United States"
25th JUNE, 2022- Yesterday, a reactionary US Supreme Court, empowered by the refusal of the last 3 Democratic administrations to codify Roe V. Wade, and the old racist relic Ruth Bader Ginsberg clinging to her gavel until the Grim Reaper snatched it from her, predictably repealed the 1973 Roe V. Wade ruling, eliminating federal protection for legal abortion in the United States. When the dust settles, as many as 22 states could use this to effectively ban abortion.
In response, the loose coalition of liberal civil society in the US, a smattering of the largely white, college-educated petite bourgeoisie, Democratic elites in the Beltway and along the coasts, progressives, pink hats, mainstream media, and the aesthetic-first, anarchistic “Left” have unleashed a predictably performative flood of outrage which has taken on historic proportions.
Much of this is understandable, even correct, and much of it is so mired up its own rear end of decontextualized American idealism that Justices Thomas and Kavanaugh wouldn’t know how to squirm their way through.
Women’s rights have been attacked again, no doubt, but watching liberals go into full meltdown once again over domestic social developments, while our entire lives as US citizens have been dominated by murder, genocide, imperialism, land theft, wage theft, mass surveillance, imprisonment, and the evisceration of the planet is fairly unimpressive, frankly. This is being heralded as the “rise of fascism,” but this is America: we created fascism. This is the theatrical gamesmanship of an extant, bipartisan fascist beast, manufacturing yet again the illusion of struggle within bourgeois boundaries.
CHOICE IS IMPORTANT; EXISTENCE IS MORE IMPORTANT
It’s unconscionable that in our collective political consciousness, the notion that “these women in X country/neighborhood are struggling to survive, and need access to abortion” supersedes the notion that “these women in X country/neighborhood shouldn’t be struggling to survive.”
but if only we could generate this much outrage for the total lack of public healthcare, childcare, preventative medicine, maternity leave, housing, or wealth redistribution that might make having a child, or not, a more deliberate decision for basically anyone.
Notwithstanding that abortion/birth control *in its liberal form* in the US (I am in no way taking away from more principled, materialist efforts over the centuries) began as a eugenicist project by white feminists to control black populations, abortion, objectively is a traumatic and sometimes dangerous procedure. Socialism is never idealism, it is the tool with which we address the material contradictions in our society, and so necessary abortion is available without question in a socialist society, because there is a human need for it, in many cases. What socialist states don’t usually do, as much of our culture has done, is fetishize abortion above all other causes, and idolize it, because Socialism creates the material conditions wherein abortion becomes far less of a necessity, because resources and education lead to less unwanted pregnancy, and because economic security and public infrastructure make child-bearing and family planning viable for the masses.
In the United States, abortion, like the other morsels of bread sanctimoniously doled out to the people by the ruling class, became a holy grail because it’s all you get. You may be stripped of the ability to choose where you live, where you work, how you exist, and what kind of family you want, but at least you can abort an unwanted pregnancy which might exacerbate the untenable conditions you’re trying to live through. The scattered rights and freedoms we vaguely enjoy in the US are always concessions granted to our populace to ensure that the imperial order is not toppled, and nothing more. As much as the liberal elite wants to blame “religion” in a vacuum, none of these rights and concessions will ever mean a thing, and none of them will ever truly be legislated responsibly, not abortion, not housing, not food, as long as the capitalist class remains in power.
Of course, none of this is unsettling to the power brokers of the Democratic Party, who never intended to settle the issue of Roe, because it has been their most valuable political currency for decades. In an election cycle when democrats control the White House and congress, and the economy is in the gutter, headed by a president unable to form complete sentences, the opportunity to sing “God Bless America” on the capital steps and convert it into fundraising checks is a can’t-miss for the DNC. All of this will mean nothing for the advancement of international working women’s liberation, but it may clear a few more shipments of heavy weaponry to Ukrainian fascists.
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What to do? Pessimism is understandably strong amongst the infinitesimal ranks of a principled American Left, and so if the opportunity presents itself, the instinct to leave this burning ship and build the power to bring it down elsewhere on earth, makes sense. But even then, something must rise from the ashes.
For those with the patience, it’s more time than ever to build popular, organized power in the United States. Whether this will happen within CPUSA, PSL, the left-wing of DSA, complete with their countless contradictions and shortcomings, or whether it will come with the simple empowerment of class consciousness and broadening of community self-defense (which includes measure for safe access to abortion) outside of the influence of the Democratic Party entirely, and the creation of an entity which has yet to be, remains to be seen.
But make no mistake, our allies in this fight are not in liberal arts institutions, they’re not on “Decolonization” panels, they’re not staffing NGOs, and most of all, they started shedding tears of outrage at America’s crimes long before their right to have an abortion in a state they’ve never been to was ever threatened.
Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:27 am wrote:.
I don't believe I noticed anyone in this thread denying there was an anti-abortion movement active for some time. But this movement is not mutually exclusive with other factors/agendas,
such as the fore-referenced (and increasingly multi-pronged) efforts to divide citizenry on various ideological issues,
and that such efforts seem to have reached an inflection point, particularly over the last ~2yrs, which is also tied to much of the framing/ostracism of others Re: covid policies and related enforcement, as much as you seem to avoid making that connection.
And that's all we're trying to convey here: an attempt to acknowledge there's connections across topics/issues
Belligerent Savant » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:33 pm wrote:I believe the answer to your red-font question is: 1967, but i'm no abortion scholar; I remain an apprentice on the topic, relying mostly on my own and/or anecdotal experience.
My core issue with this topic is that I simply don't believe it to be pure happenstance that it's popped up again, now.
DrEvil » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:59 pm wrote:Of course it's not happenstance. It's a direct result of Trump getting elected on (in part) the promise of stacking the courts with conservative judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. It happened now because they finally had the votes to do it. As has been repeated ad nauseam, they've literally been telling you that this was the plan for forty years. This would have happened, covid or no covid, because it's got nothing to do with it.
Anyway, why aren't people railing against the right, who have been screaming bloody murder over mandates for two years, all the while arguing for banning abortions and finally getting their will? Funny how it's only the left being bad guys here. Almost as if there was some kind of bias involved.
Belligerent Savant » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:02 pm wrote:My core issue with this topic is that I simply don't believe it to be pure happenstance that it's popped up again, now.
There IS ABSOUTELY hypocrisy in play here, demonstrably, as I have observed and witnessed numerous instances of individuals in the "my body my choice" camp be totally ok with ostracizing/discriminating against/othering/infringing upon the rights of those that opted not to undertake a certain medical procedure.
THIS is my core interest, because there are conceptual similarities here, and all those that are feeling so bold and righteous in their proclamations on the abortion issue, but are SILENT on the other bodily autonomy issue, are outright hypocrites,
I will not simply sweep this observation under the rug.
WHY didn't they speak up about the topic of mandates, but are happy to be visible and vocal on the topic of abortion?
Even here in this thread we saw examples of this.
.liminalOyster » Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:09 pm wrote:I'm an over-educated, well-to-do enough white guy here, btw, who passionately opposes any/all vax mandates in all forms, but is well aware that view is of pretty much no consequence whatsoever in comparison to how rapidly shit is hitting the fan disproportionately for women who are poor and/or of color in Red states, atm.
JackRiddler » Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:25 pm wrote:Belligerent Savant » Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:02 pm wrote:My core issue with this topic is that I simply don't believe it to be pure happenstance that it's popped up again, now.
Obviously it is not, and no one thinks otherwise. The reasons for it -- the culmination of a 50-year political movement and a concurrent campaign to take over the judiciary -- are also completely obvious. It's your decision to constantly mystify this, to ignore the obvious answer, and to just repeat this over, and over, and over.There IS ABSOUTELY hypocrisy in play here, demonstrably, as I have observed and witnessed numerous instances of individuals in the "my body my choice" camp be totally ok with ostracizing/discriminating against/othering/infringing upon the rights of those that opted not to undertake a certain medical procedure.
This too you are now repeating for the nth time, as if it is an observation that anyone here so far has disagreed with you about. I would say it is even worse hypocrisy in the other direction, and see you using this excuse ("well there are people losing their jobs out there because of unjust vaccine mandates and some poeple like that and some of them are for abortion rights") to diminish the issue of bodily slavery in the form of forced breeding required by state law, to sweep it aside either as a) partly justified because abortion bad (as you did above), b) irrelevant because vaccine mandates and other injustices, or c) and most annoyingly, the product of a mystery THEM who want to "divide us." Fuck man, there is no mystery: the right-wing campaign fought for this for 50 years and from the beginning they were instrumentalized as a means of "dividing us." It worked.THIS is my core interest, because there are conceptual similarities here, and all those that are feeling so bold and righteous in their proclamations on the abortion issue, but are SILENT on the other bodily autonomy issue, are outright hypocrites,
Point to anyone here arguing this way or shut up, already.I will not simply sweep this observation under the rug.
No kidding. You will repeat another three dozen times as if you haven't said it a dozen already. To whom are you speaking on this thread?WHY didn't they speak up about the topic of mandates, but are happy to be visible and vocal on the topic of abortion?
Go argue with those who fit this profile. They do, indeed exist. Go find them.Even here in this thread we saw examples of this.
Show, or stop.
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JRiddler:
...bodily slavery in the form of forced breeding required by state law
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