How big are We - really ?

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How big are We - really ?

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:59 pm

Category - Spirtualism ?<br><br> Ive been thinking about lil ole me lately, in relation having never read, but actually given some thought to the whole concept of a "holotropic universe"<br><br> Im seeking some help from the scientists on this forum in this respect to say yeah or nee.<br><br> Im told that if we were expand the smallest constituent of anything we consider to be material, namely a cup or a table (or anything in fact) to the size of say canterbury cathedral, we would actually end up with solid matter the size of a 10 pence piece, or a 25cent coin - The rest being energy.<br><br> That makes solid me, or you, or anyone else about the size of pin prick ? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 8/20/05 3:00 pm<br></i>
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And what if it is all energy

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:19 pm

> Im told that if we were expand the smallest constituent of anything we consider to be material, namely a cup or a table (or anything in fact) to the size of say canterbury cathedral, we would actually end up with solid matter the size of a 10 pence piece, or a 25cent coin - The rest being energy.<br><br>I think that there is no material to begin with. It is all energy. A vibration of nothing. There is nothing solid. Only the illusion of solidity. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:24 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think that there is no material to begin with. It is all energy. A vibration of nothing. There is nothing solid. Only the illusion of solidity<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->. <br><br> I was just thinking about all those lil pics of the atom - which is the core constituent of molecules ? Which in itself is the core constituent of everything we see around us ? help. My science is really hopeless lol.<br><br> But the whole idea is really serious mind food.<br><br> And whether its all energy or a pin prick of mass .<br><br> Whats a pin prick between friends <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:31 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I was just thinking about all those lil pics of the atom - which is the core constituent of molecules ? Which in itself is the core constituent of everything we see around us ? help. My science is really hopeless lol.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's the basis of the problem. First you have to atom and later we have found that the atom consists of protons and neutrons. And that neutrons are protons + electrons. Then it becomes quirks. Right now we are unable to observe anything beyond the quirk level since the observer starts to interfere with the particle. But in all likelyhood quirks will contain a substructures as well.<br><br>And that process probably continous indefinitely. And if you look at the larger scale there is another observation limit we have ran into. So you have planets, stars, galaxies, super galaxies and then becomes unclear. Even though scientist will put an outer limit, it could be argued that that outer limit doesn't exist either and even the supergalaxies are in another scale like atoms.<br><br>The only difference between the large and the small is the timescale. So the smaller it gets the faster the timescale and the larger it gets, the slower the timescale. So maybe particle sizes are infinite because they are dependent on timescale, but they themselves don't exists. It is just vibration of energy which becomes observable as a single point and sometimes we call that point an atom, sometimes a human being, a planet or even a galaxy. It is the same complex vibration of energy into a single point.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But the whole idea is really serious mind food.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Indeed. So let's reread what I've just written. .<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 8/20/05 3:31 pm<br></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:40 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And that process probably continous indefinitely. And if you look at the larger scale there is another observation limit we have ran into. So you have planets, stars, galaxies, super galaxies and then becomes unclear. Even though scientist will put an outer limit, it could be argued that that outer limit doesn't exist either and even the supergalaxies are in another scale like atoms.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> So Lennon < cough > was probably right then when he said that we could actually be part of some dirt in someones fingernail <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> But of course all this begs the bigger question. Whos big idea was "us" in the first place ?<br><br> A force greater than that which we are I presume <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:48 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>So Lennon < cough > was probably right then when he said that we could actually be part of some dirt in someones fingernail <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Yes. We are the dirt in the fingernails of giants. And maybe atoms are like galaxies. Maybe every H2O molecule is different and no atom/molecule is the same. Just like no human being is the same (twins excluded of course for argument's sake)<br><br>BTW. Lennon did say a lot of deep things. He had reached a high spiritual level IMHO. I love the content of Imagine...<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But of course all this begs the bigger question. Whos big idea was "us" in the first place ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I love the Buddhist approach. The universe has come to exists as a place where the beings could coexists. It is the desires and wishes of all the minds and creatures combined which have allowed this world to form as a place where they could exist.<br><br>The beauty of that idea is that it doesn't require a creator or a creating god, because an argument can be made that there is no such thing as a creating god. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 8/20/05 3:49 pm<br></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:53 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The beauty of that idea is that it doesn't require a creator or a creating god, because an argument can be made that there is no such thing as a creating god.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br> Which brings (me personally ) back to Icke and the conception of each of us as a "godhead"<br><br> If we dont want to go so far, then perhaps there is more than a grain of truth in the fact that we have all existed forever and always will.<br><br> We are all Jesus - forgive the blasphemy - the point being we collectively shape our own future.<br><br> Time to straighten up the fucking ball- park if you ask me <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: And what if it is all energy

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:57 pm

I don't know whether you have read things like the Gospel of Thomas, but there it says that god is us. Above us, below us, inside us and outside us. Maybe our thoughts, prayers and ideas are creating the universe as we know it. Maybe evolution is triggered and adjusted by mental thought. Fritjof Capra wrote a book about it and was magnificant. I don't mean the Tao of Physics. I forgot the title but it was about that the cells actively evolve and have a worldwide DNA distribution system in place. It is mindblogging stuff.<br><br>Edit: From the Gospel of Thomas<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.<br><br>1. And he said, "<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->."<br><br>3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.<br><br>(...)<br><br>77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.<br><br>Split a piece of wood; I am there.<br><br>Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html">www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Take the first verse literal, because if you understand the gospel then there is no death to fear... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 8/20/05 4:36 pm<br></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby ZeroHaven » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:01 pm

[edit - dammit! so many replies before I finished typing.. too bad. here's my post.]<br><br>I'll give you a quick simple summary.<br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:maroon;">First, if you don't know, light behaves like both a particle and a wave. This particle/wave is called a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>photon</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br>The atom can be broken down further into <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>proton, neutron</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>electron</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.<br><br>Of these, the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>electron</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> behaves like both a particle and a wave. Meaning: it has both properties of something solid and just energy.. just like light, which most people wouldn't call 'solid'. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Protons</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>neutrons</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> are called particles - they can be considered 'solid'. Both of these are made of little things called <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>quarks</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.<br><br>Now, quarks are really tricky. The only way scientists know they exist is by smashing electrons or photons into protons or neutrons, and measuring the electric charges of the mess they made. <br><br>Nobody has figured out yet if quarks are simply particles or not, but they seem to have similar wave/particle properties that electrons and photons have. Quarks don't last very long, because as soon as they get smashed out they let off their energy as electricity and dissappear.<br><br>This means that if you look at all the 'particles' that everything is made out of, they are waves of energy at some levels. So that means everything is made out of energy after all!<br><br>If you don't want to wonder about quarks, even thinking that each atom is at least half 'electrons' means we're half energy.<br>Then think about all that empty space between the electrons and the nucleus of each atom. <br><br>My favorite part of thinking about this, is if we call something a wave.. don't you need something to make waves IN? I call that the 'fabric of the universe', some people call it 'god'. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:maroon;">I don't mean to insult anybody's intelligence I just wanted to make it really simple.</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=zerohaven>ZeroHaven</A> at: 8/20/05 4:03 pm<br></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby RollickHooper » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:01 pm

I like DrDebugDU's "quirks" better.<br><br>I've been looking everywhere for a definition of "holotropic" and I'm not having any luck.<br><br>I've felt for some time that the earth and sky--that is, that which we are able to perceive with our five senses--is laid out like a marvelous reference book or encyclopedia, marvelous because it calls us: Look! Watch! Learn!<br>--which to me suggests an intelligence behind it, somebody wants us to figure it all out, and gave us the brains to be curious and to try to figure it out.<br>Further, the fruits of our mental labor isn't for us alone, we are charged with the responsibility to record what we've learned and to pass it on--which, again in my mind suggests Continuity, we are connected with our ancestors and our descendants, across Time, forever, and either we all make it or none of us do.<br><br>Now I'm real fascinated by the Mandelbrodt set, and fractals, and that really seems to be pointing towards a "holographic" view of things, but when I try to draw MEANING from that, I get stuck-- <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:13 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I like DrDebugDU's "quirks" better.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>LOL. Well I was close. It's been years since I've been to school <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Further, the fruits of our mental labor isn't for us alone, we are charged with the responsibility to record what we've learned and to pass it on--which, again in my mind suggests Continuity, we are connected with our ancestors and our descendants, across Time, forever, and either we all make it or none of us do.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I like this part. The whole idea is to pass information on and on. During my holiday I was sitting on a terrace and somebody was a reading a book. First I paid no notice of him but then I looked at the title and it was about the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan and the role the CIA played in setting it. <br><br>So I tried to make contact and we talked for a couple of hours about many things which are generally RI stuff. He was already getting to the point that he saw that politics was a charade and somehow it felt like I had to guide him a bit further in his quest. <br><br>But I don't consider that a coincidence, it was the way the information and understanding of the world gets spread. We do it through the messageboards, however someimes you will be a teacher and sometimes a student and that happens over and over again during your life and it usually about the subjects which are relevant for either party. <br><br>The proliferation of information is an essential element of existence and the evolution is not just physical, but mental and spiritual as well. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:20 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This means that if you look at all the 'particles' that everything is made out of, they are waves of energy at some levels. So that means everything is made out of energy after all!<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Which in itself is fascinating, especially when one considers a thread I read recently which suggests that observation of such phenoma ( Quantum physics ) actually influences the results of any experiments ?<br><br> Kindly correct any misapprehension on my part you guys <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> Doh. Dr nailed it in one of his replies when he said that observation of such phenomena influences the results.<br><br> Please add more. My mind is exploding here. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 8/20/05 5:28 pm<br></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby DrDebugDU » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:26 pm

slimmouse: You are right. The observer and the observant directly influence one and another on the quantum level. The point is how about the other levels.<br><br>I haven't been really active in Buddhism anymore, but the essence of their Enlightment (which is severely different from the Illuminati which are the complete opposite) is the clear realisation that observer and observed are one. <br><br>The problem with human beings is that we see the world from a single point without seeing ourself in it, but that in reality it is the combination which makes the state of mind. The same with conservation which is meant to fill in the blanks between two people (however it often leads to meaningless chitchat to pass the time <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yes, it's all energy.

Postby slimmouse » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:33 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The problem with human beings is that we see the world from a single point without seeing ourself in it, but that in reality it is the combination which makes the state of mind.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> Which I guess, is where Jung comes in ?<br><br> I read a truly fascinating thread on here a while back, concerning the "illness" of Bush, which is in fact, basically "our" illness <br><br> Does that make sense ? <p></p><i></i>
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Cell City

Postby antiaristo » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:39 pm

slim,<br>A couple of years back when I ewnt to see my mother I was watching TV in the muddle of the night. They were broadcasting BBC educational programmes, presumably for timeshifting.<br>One programme was called "Cell City" and it was magnificent. I would defy an intelligent person to watch it and not be in awe.<br>We think of the cell as being a hard blob (nucleus) inside a soft blob. Because that's all you see with traditional tools. But now with modern computers and simulations you can see what's happening. And it is INCREDIBLE.<br>The nucleus is like a city, it's that sophisticated, with an unbelievable degree of complexity and specialisation of function.<br>Each cell divides I think every 24-48 hours or so, and the documentary traced some of what happens when you BUILD A NEW CITY IN 24-48 HOURS.<br>Unbelievably interesting, and it strikes me as fitting in nicely with the thesis that smallscale things happen fast. <p></p><i></i>
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