Can pure good produce pure evil?

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Can pure good produce pure evil?

Postby sceneshifter » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:00 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:maroon;font-family:helvetica;font-size:medium;"><br><br><br><br>Can a person do great evil though doing nothing but good?<br><br>An important point if true.<br><br>Is it possible to have nothing but goodwill and yet cause great evil?<br><br>Is it possible to spend the whole of one's life doing things for the improvement of the world and yet cause the end of the world?<br><br>I dont mean, just: spend one's whole life doing things for the improvement of the world and yet see the world end -<br><br>I mean: although doing nothing but good, CAUSE THEREBY the end of the world, increase the strength of the forces that end the world, bring nuclear winter?<br><br>It doesn't seem possible - It doesn't seem likely - But it is so.<br><br>We could have EVERYONE working for the improvement of the world and nonetheless bring about the end of the world.<br><br>Not possible? You are certain that if everyone worked for the improvement of the world, the world would avoid destruction?<br><br>You will agree that if you are wrong about this, then you need to know, you want to know.<br><br>A warning, a reminder, an explanation of this will be most welcome.<br><br>Well, a person could do nothing but practise the violin, and yet cause the end of the body by not eating.<br><br>A person could work for family every day, with every nerve and all one's heart, and ignore the danger signs of war coming, and be swept into concentration camps.<br><br>A person could pull leaves from a poisonous tree every day - which is doing good, destroying an evil - and yet, cause the death of a child by not chopping the tree down and burning it.<br><br>One could tidy the car, or put on music in the car for the pleasure of the passengers, and yet cause death of all occupants by not steering or braking for red light, brick walls and precipices.<br><br>One could concentrate on restoring a part of a painting, and lose the painting by neglect of most of the painting. The perfect, thorough, conscientious preservation of a square inch of the painting would be pointless if the painting as a whole were to be lost meantime.<br><br>Are these examples too theoretical, too unlikely?<br><br>But the pattern is there: working on a part and practising total neglect of the whole<br><br>One could devote one's whole life to - risk one's life repeatedly - fighting crime in Los Angeles or Rio or Goa or Peking - and see the world end for lack of attention to the larger problem.<br><br>One could save the whales, or try to, and see all the whales die for lack of a sea to live in.<br><br>One could work with uttermost dedication and selflessness to the cure of cancer, and see everyone die of nuclear winter.<br><br>Will the child be safe if you remove leaves of a poisonous tree?<br><br>Will the car drive itself if you put the most excellent music on, clean the mirrors to immaculacy?<br><br>If you write the most brilliant symphony, direct the most entertaining film, fight crime with more success than anyone else, save more stranded whales, cure more diseases, defend more defendants, pass better environmental laws, will the world steer right therefore?<br><br>It is a hard and painful truth, that the answer is no.<br><br>GOOD ISNT GOOD ENOUGH - GOOD CAN BE VERY BAD<br><br>Fix the engine and lose the boat to a leak - Save the whales and lose the sea.<br><br>It is easy to say: it won't happen - But who is saying that? Sense or Non-sense? Reason or Unreason?<br><br>[We dont really have a word for unreason, do we - We think that Unreason doesnt exist, because there is no common word for it, because it is not often talked about.] <br><br>Why won't it happen? Because it is too big to happen? Because we are not paying attention there? Because we dont want it to happen? Because so few are paying attention there? <br><br>Were the majority so right when they believed that god was a person who existed? <br><br>When the majority argue for the truth of something from the fact that the majority believes it, they are making a mistake: A thing doesnt become right because a bishop or pope or king or scientist or majority says it is so. Most of the scientific certainties of 1900 are now 'known' to be false. Where is the medicine of the 18thC? Where will the medicine of the 20thC be in two centuries? Presumably where bloodletting is now.<br><br>Unfortunately, reality doesnt reward tryers, not even hard tryers - Reality rewards only those who get it right - Reality is no saint: Reality will reward someone who gets it right, even if they make no effort at all!<br><br>Picnic on a railway line, after choosing the spot with extraordinary care: result: bad - Picnic off a railway line, with no care or attention: result: good.<br><br>Goodwill, even the most perfect goodwill, with seriously imperfect grasp of reality, will produce bad results, not good.<br><br>Reality MERCILESSLY demands accurate prioritising. More important things have to be done prior to less important things. Even something very important has to take second place to something more important. Relieving even a very full bladder has to take second place to getting out of the way of a runaway truck.<br><br>Unfortunately, we are only slowly growing into a consciousness of the global world. First, for a minority, with books, and today, for a majority, with books and tv. And most books and tv do not increase consciousness of the globe. Even international news is news of parts of the globe [countries], not the global events, like the loss of topsoil at the rate of all of the topsoil in 100 years, or the inequity/violence factor of one billion. [That is, pay for a unit of work ranging from $x to $x billion.]<br><br>Unfortunately, these global events are happening just as much as international events are, but are under-reported. Speaking broadly, global events are unreported.<br><br>We have created global events before having the global consciousness to see them and confront them.<br><br>We may think that global events are someone's problem, but we are sure that they are not our problem. And most people do not believe it is important for it to be anyone's problem. We are not making sure that someone is dealing with them, and we are far from aware that it is important to deal with them. 99.99999% of us give them no thought at all. Global events running amok! On the loose! Ungoverned!<br><br>And it is not enough if SOME gives it their attention. The general human will has to give it their attention. Because only the general human will prevails. Unlimited fortunes exist because the general human will gives to them its approval, or does not remove its permission. Unlimited wealth is unlimited poverty is unlimited escalation of violence.<br><br>We have unlimited wealth, and unlimited violence, but we do not have a clear will to limit fortunes. We have a general understanding that a huge increase in the payrange per hour of work will cause a huge increase in violence, which will be escalative/accelerative, but we do not have a general understanding of the connection of payrate range and violence - though the step from the one to the other notion is a very small step. Despite a very clear idea of how we would feel if our pay was permanently cut to 100th.<br><br>We have some notion of the high correlation of money and power, and no notion of limiting tyranny by limiting fortunes.<br><br>We have a very hazy notion of the importance and purpose of justice. We have very little notion of overpay and underpay, despite pay from $1 to $1,000,000,000 for a 100 hours' work. Despite pay from a 1000th to a million times the average. <br><br>We have a strong idea that there exist religious wars and racial wars, and very little notion of economic wars, although there are no wars where there are religious and racial differences unaccompanied by economic differences, and although there are wars where there are economic differences without religious or racial differences.<br><br>We have a confident idea that violence is caused by human nature, although violence is proportional to economic differences. Eg, hourly payrange has been spreading throughout history [the rich get richer etc] and violence has been increasing [from sticks and stones to ICBMs]. Eg, Middle East: extreme overpay-underpay and 50% GNP defense costs, versus Scandinavia and Japan: egalitarian and 2% GNP defense costs.<br><br>We know that the contribution to the sum of wealth by an individual's work must be limited, but we have no idea that unlimited wealth means overpay/underpay/violence.<br><br>We make no connection between our universal policy of: everything you can get is yours, and the facts that 99% are underpaid and 90% are paid between a 10th and a 1000th of the world average hourly pay. We think that slavery is generally at an end, when 90% of people are between full slavery and sadistic extreme slavery! We are complacent, when 1% steal over 90% of earnings! Steal $60 trillion every year!<br><br>We have sincere people trying to stop nuclear weapons, entirely without reference to the money-fight that escalates to nuclear weapons - which is like attacking a damburst with a mop. <br><br>We know that the average work is around 50 hours a week, and that no one can work more than about 100 hours a week, but at the same time we feel [judging our feelings by our behaviour] that somehow an individual can, over decades, earn, on average, 50,000 times the average pay per hour! And peak up to a 1,000,000 times harder work per hour!<br><br>Clearly, our consciousness is like a swiss cheese. Holes in which are discovered, like holes in underwear and insurance cover, by accident. Actually, in the case of holes in consciousness, undiscovered even by 1000s of years of escalating accidents.<br><br>The moral is: wakey, wakey, all. The moral is: thinking caps, gentle men and gentle ladies, or a black silent planet, soon. <br><br>Fill in the holes, or die.<br><br>We are screaming towards extinction - a temperature drop three times an iceage - with pedal-to-the-metal pay-theft and violence, but we may save the whales. <br><br>'Snot our fault the bloody ocean froze, is it.<br><br><br><br>If you want to survive, if you are not certain that you want your family, your race, your country, your species to become extinct, publish this article as hard as you can. Who knows? It may only require a 100 or a 1000 or a 1,000,000 human monkeys to get this message, for all to get it.<br><br>The author is Amirightor.</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Can pure good produce pure evil?

Postby AnnaLivia » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:41 pm

?will the epitaph of humanity be:<br><br>"They thought they could choose which parts of reality to face" <p></p><i></i>
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RASPBERRIES BY THE MEGATON

Postby Floyd Smoots » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:09 pm

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: RASPBERRIES BY THE MEGATON

Postby sceneshifter » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:08 pm

HTML Comments are not allowed <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sceneshifter@rigorousintuition>sceneshifter</A> at: 2/21/06 4:11 pm<br></i>
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Re: RASPBERRIES BY THE MEGATON

Postby sceneshifter » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:16 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:medium;">I'm sorry, I don't speak raspberry - could you translate into english for a monolingual?<br><br>[chinese syntax permitted]<br><br>you must have esp - ruth and anna are making raspberry tart</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i></i>
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if i may

Postby smithtalk » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:36 am

i think what floyd is trying to say is <br>longwinded personal waffles about good and evil, people waking up, the rich exploiting the poor and so forth offer very little constructive,<br>i cant speak for everyone but,<br>we know what the situation is, were trying to learn as much concrete information as we can about the perps, <br>we'd all like a return to sanity and a positive direction,<br>but inane retorical questions followed by new age dribble is obviously giving floyd the shits,<br>personally i just ignore it although the red fonts, italics and comic sans typeface drive me up the wall,<br><br>please though be not offended <p></p><i></i>
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SMITHY....

Postby Floyd Smoots » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:21 pm

....You seem like reasonable folk, and I can't disagree with your opinion here at all, save this: shifty's wallpaper doesn't give me any sort of medical condition. I just enjoy twitting him from time to time, but truly, as long as any of us reply to him or AnnaLivia, for any reason, they will NEVER Shut Up, nor Will They Ever GO AWAY!!! But Then Neither Will I, until I get tired of the whole mess on my own, or get invited to take a ride in "The Black SUV", leaving even my enemies here to wonder "Whatever happened to Ol' Floyd???". <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SMITHY....

Postby sceneshifter » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:11 am

smithtalk - Try to see it from my angle. I see a world lost in VAST UNNECESSARY SUFFERING leading rapidly to extinction. I see a way that is of ENORMOUS BENEFIT TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE PLANET, to say nothing of the animals, some of which are quite charming. I do my best to bring this information ot the minds of others. [I do this because it is the only way I can be happy.] I am conscious that people have been unable to absorb this idea for 1000s of years. They have suffered enormously, unnecessarily, for those 1000s of years. I say everything I can think of that might help people see what I see. I grant I may be wrong. But if I am wrong, I am sincerely deluded. And until I am undeluded, I continue to see what I see. <br><br>Your description is a very inaccurate description of what I am saying in this thread. I gather I have annoyed you. You say you cannot speak for everyone, and then say: we this, we that. I hope that there are people who can read me or do read me with more attention. Perhaps there are none. But I don't know that. I make assumptions about the intelligence of people. Perhaps I overestimate them. Until I have information to the contrary, I will continue to think there are people who can hear me. Who read me with intelligence. I imagine there may be people who read me with interest. <br><br>I am very sorry to see that you did not get the very important point I am making here. You say, 'we're trying to learn as much concrete information as we can about the perps'. My point is that this effort to get concrete information about the perps is doomed. Even if you were to get concrete information about the perps, YOU WOULD STILL **THEREBY** CAUSE THE END OF THE WORLD. Why? Because you are trying [unsuccessfully] to pick leaves off a poisonous tree that needs to be attacked with an axe at the root. While you are trying to get concrete information about the perps of a few present crimes against humanity, the tree of problems is flourishing. The tree can be brought down, but it will flourish as long as we foolishly attack the tree by trying to pick off leaves. There are a million leaves on this tree, and you are attacking one or two. How many layers of concealment do the superpowerful have? If you strip off one layer, perhaps there are as many layers within that as the layers of the onion. You cannot succeed that way. You [we] will fail, and all die. Picking off leaves, ALTHOUGH WHOLLY A GOOD THING, will CAUSE the free continuation of the escalation of violence to extinction. Picking off leaves is sufficient misaction to leave the tree of problems free to poison us all. Pure good, at the leaf level, will produce pure evil, extinction. <br><br>AND YOU MUST FAIL TO GET CONCRETE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PERPS. Why? Because with superoverpay/underpay, human life is a war, and the first casualty of war is truth. The power of the superpowerful to conceal will always be far greater than your power to reveal. I have quoted Benjamin Disraeli, Prime Minister of England in the 19th C. Even he was not in a position to speak the truth. He was in a position to see how successful the superpowerful were at concealing. You have to chop at the root. That is, stop the existence of the superoverpaid/superoverpowerful. This can be done, by arousing the great majority to see the enormous advantages of doing so. The people have always been more powerful than the superoverpowerful. The people have always been able to bring the robbers down. With such a great majority who will benefit enormously by this change [requiring only a few small laws], it is possible to get us on a smooth path.<br><br>I think that you do not like me thinking I might have something to say to you. You are offended by my efforts to make points. I am making the points because I believe them, because I think they are very very very VERY VERY VERY VERY important. And you have to admit that it is possible that a person can on occasion have something important to say. But you take my assumption that I have something important to say as an offense against you. Somehow. For some reason. This attitude is not in your interests. Either I have something to say or I don't. It is no offense for anyone to think they have something important to say. It is possible someone may be correct in what they have to say. YOU MAY BE IN VERY VERY GREAT DANGER. You may think you are not, but you, like me, like anyone, can be wrong. There is nothing offensive in a person sincerely trying to warn you of great danger. There is nothing in an INsincere person trying to warn you of something that need arouse animosity in you. If a person is insincerely trying to warn you, that is their problem, their disease. But I am not insincere.<br><br>I see people here keen to get information on the perps, and I cannot, must not, forbear to try to point out that your and their sincere, genuine, goodwilled efforts are doomed. Double-doomed. You cannot get the information, and getting the information would achieve very very little - will achieve nothing in the big problem. Will ensure the continuation of the world to extinction. You may feel miffed at being criticised when you are sincerely working for good. But you will be more miffed when you realise too late that equal efforts in a better direction would have saved the world and made everyone much happier and safer. So I try to warn you. And you react as to an attack. <p></p><i></i>
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selfprotection

Postby sceneshifter » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:03 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:maroon;font-family:helvetica;font-size:x-small;"><br><br>I started this thread to make a point that I think every person of goodwill will want to know [if it is true]: that all the work of all the people of goodwill to improve the world can have zero effect, because of one thing: attention at the leaf level, not the tree level: If you have a poisonous tree, you do not successfully protect your child from being poisoned by it again, by attacking the leaf that poisoned your child yesterday or today. How could we make the mistake of attacking the leaf, not the tree. We can and do make this mistake because we are tuned to leaves, not to the tree. We, as little evolutionary animals, are tuned to what we see. We have created a global world, but we are not evolutionarily equipped to see it, deal with it, face it, know it, and control it. We have created a global world and we must learn to see the global world we have created. We have to adapt to the reality we have made or die. It is like building a car and then getting lost in some detail, and therefore not being able to drive or control the car. We are sorcerer's apprentices, with enough knowledge to get ourselves into trouble and not enough to get us out. We have to grow this intelligence quickly or be destroyed by our creation. Henry Thoreau saw this over a 100 years ago.<br><br>This effort aroused animosity, which took the form of rudeness: 'longwinded personal waffles...inane rhetorical questions...new age dribble...giving floyd the shits...'<br><br>Why does a person shouting 'Careful!' arouse animosity? Why is a person making an attack by rudeness to protect themselves from a goodwilled warning?<br><br>We people are curiously made [IMO].<br><br>We are, and our societies are:<br><br>Actual and potential<br>Matter and energy<br>Created and uncreated<br>Finished and to-be-created<br>Work of art and artist<br>Finite and infinite<br>Fixed and growing<br>Our present selves and our infinite future selves<br>Institution and revolution<br>Rigidity and change<br>Stop and go<br>Egg and chicken<br>Seed and tree<br>Mountain and river<br>Established customs and future customs<br>Present ways and future ways<br>Present understanding and future understanding<br>Chrysalis and butterfly<br>Accepted ideas and true ideas<br>Formed reality and unformed reality<br><br>There is a time to preserve the egg, and there is a time to break the egg.<br>There is a time to protect the life of the seed in its shell, and a time for that shell to be 'wounded' and for life to escape from that shell, for the seed to see what it can become, whether zebra or flower.<br>There is a time for institution and a time for the breaking of institution. The time for institution is from the time it is created with good effect to the time when it is no longer good for humans. The law is made for man, not man for the law. <br>There is in us an instinct to protect the creature we are, to exclude, and there is another instinct, to change, enlarge, embrace, take in, include, grow, create new improved selves, that are better adapted to reality.<br>There is a need to protect what we have and what we are, and there is a need to enlarge what we are and what we have.<br>In our actual selves, there is rightness and wrongness. And the instinct to protect that self is a 'sticking' in rightness and wrongness. The complimentary instinct, to grow, is to increase rightness [adaptation to reality, capacity for happiness] and diminish wrongness [adaptation to unreality, incapacity for happiness].<br><br><br>Wisdom, which we all lack, in various degrees, tells us that THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN HURT US. Everyone in truth helps us. Whatever is outside our finite selves is part of our true infinite selves, and the enlargement by taking in something from outside enlarges us, never destroys us. Every suffering is growth. Everything limited has an inside and an outside. Everything limited is invaded. [Countries, bodies, personalities, beliefs.] Everything limited can be and is destroyed. The outside always comes in. The barrier, the protection always fails, and should fail. Because our destiny is to grow and grow infinitely. Even death, physical deaths and psychic deaths, are but stages of life, which is growth, the joy of becoming something bigger, better, more adapted to reality, more happy, more immune to suffering change and to the breaking of the shell. Every work of art takes the artist further in knowledge, further in portraying the joy of life, in capturing the infinite in the finite work of art. The universe is also a work of art in progress. It has got very far, but its potential to be better is infinite. Life is creation and destruction, because there is always a better world ahead, with the destruction of every world that is made. The artist has infinite potential, and can only get better, with every creation. Everything visible has a boundary, has limits, is a work of art that will die or be destroyed. Everything that can be imagined has boundaries, otherwise you couldnt get your finite mind around it. And so everything you can imagine is limited, is a creation slated for destruction. Because only energy/potential/growth/uncreated/artist cannot be created or destroyed, is infinite in space and time.<br><br><br>Hence the sayings:<br><br>Sacrifice whatever you love most; the benefits are infinite. [So sacrifice is not sacrifice, it only appears to be loss and sacrifice, to the limited self, but sacrifice is the letting go of something that limits sanity and happiness, and sacrifice is an entering into a larger power for reality and happiness.]<br>Unless the seed fall into the soil and die, it cannot live.<br>To lose your life is to gain it. [To lose your limited self is to gain your unlimited self, your true self unbound by space or time, or rather, to move closer to it, to become more your unlimited creator self, to become more an artist, less a work of art.]<br>I died as a mineral and was born as a plant. I died as a plant and was born as an animal. I died as an animal and I was born as a woman. When was I ever less by dying?<br>What the heart grieves for, the soul rejoices in.<br>A good conversation can be had with the washerwomen by the river.<br>Take in. [Be hospitable to every idea, every person, [enemy or friend, hater or lover, murderer or lover], every idea, every notion, every thought, every feeling, every intuition, every guess. The worst murderer can only destroy our limitations. The worst torturer can only help us learn to transcend pain. And our lovers are our murderers too.]<br>Marriage [relationship] is the greatest of adventures. [Because in egos rubbing against one another, we suffer and grow, we adapt, we enlarge to take in the other, whose powers becomes new powers for us. Friction with another gives fertility of ideas and bodies.]<br>Knowledge is power.<br>We come closest to truth when we hear all opinions. [We separate the wheat from the chaff and with a breath of kindness blow the chaff away.]<br>Be a student. Be a learner. Unreality can never be molded into happiness.<br>The greatest happiness is to be unafraid of death, change, pain or anything. We are unafraid of death and change when we know that these things always enlarge us, make us better at happiness, make us more equal to the infinite supertemporal creativity, more united with growth and energy, less tied to body and ego and limited self. <br>Test everything and hold on to what appears good. [To test everything, you have to take it in. And test continually also what appears to you to be good, because there is always wrongness in our rightness.] <br><br>Every second, we are taking in, and thus changing from our limited selves, dying to our limited selves and becoming more learned, better adapted for survival. So, we are experiencing death every second, and we like it! Growth is good - AND EVERYTHING IS GROWTH.<br> <br> </span><!--EZCODE FONT END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sceneshifter@rigorousintuition>sceneshifter</A> at: 2/24/06 11:45 pm<br></i>
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Cant disagree

Postby Darklo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:20 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You cannot get the information, and getting the information would achieve very very little - will achieve nothing in the big problem.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Your absolutley right. And maybe we are all just wasting our time looking for truth we will never have.<br><br>But searching for the truth gives my life meaning, so stuff you (with all due respect). <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Cant disagree

Postby sceneshifter » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:47 pm

I meant that we cant get the information on the particular crimes of the day, or if we can, only with great difficulty and danger, and only by neglect of all the other crimes<br><br>we CAN get the big-picture truth - the truth [that jefferson saw, that henry ford, marshall and macarthur saw] that we need to limit fortunes and power so that we can have freedom democracy peace nonextinction etc - we can get the truth at the bigpicture level and it is at that level that we are much more efficient - we can chop down the tree of the millions of crimes and other problems that grow out of overpay and underpay - taking on one problem at a time, we cant even solve one problem - but we can solve millions of problems and permanently by identifying the root and going for it with the strength of all the people who can realise that they will benefit from it [100% will benefit enormously, nearly 100% can realise it]<br><br>we cant get the truth at the micro level, but we can get it, and can make real change, at the macro level<br><br>'there are a 1000 striking at the branches of the tree of problems for every one who is striking at the root' [henry thoreau] - there are billions striking at branches, and the tree is flourishing faster than people can chop out branches, or pull out leaves, but will die permanently if we get together and chop it down.<br><br>I was not raising a voice of despair but a voice of great hope if you read me right<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Response to Post's Original Title....

Postby Floyd Smoots » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:00 am

<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:red;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:xx-large;">....In a word, NO!!!!!!!!</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br>Now, shifty, ain't'cha glad I boosted yer thread to tha' top o' tha pile just fer grins???<br><br>Da Floydinator <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Response to Post's Original Title....

Postby sceneshifter » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:50 am

<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:lime;font-family:verdana;font-size:large;">Good one, Floydinator<br><br>You are King David leaping and capering with joy</span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p></p><i></i>
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