No, anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism

[MASONIC PLOT]

Well let me be the first to welcome our nazi stormfront friends.


YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE GET THE FUCK OUT AND DONT COME BACK.

[chiggerbit]

~heehee~ Oops, sorry. That was a burp.

[GM Citizen]

Data was supplied by the ADL. Rules out any impartiality.

Not precisely. From the Yale link: "the Anti-Defamation League commissioned First International Resources to develop a study of attitudes.... The resulting survey was administered by Taylor Nelson Sofres via telephone, resulting in interviews with 500 citizens in each of 10 countries for a total sample of 5,000."

When the Council on American-Islamic Relations releases a study saying discrimination and harassment of Muslim Americans is on the rise, should it be dismissed because the data was supplied by CAIR. Rules out any impartiality?

I was fairly certain that I read that the ADL supplied the data to the Taylor group, but now I cannot find it. Perhaps I read it wrong.

I have not read the CAIR survey, but just based on anecdotal evidence we read just about everywhere, CAIR's survey may well be quite accurate, whereas the ADL.....well, the ADL is the ADL....what more needs to be said about Foxman and his group?

[GM Citizen]

Data was supplied by the ADL. Rules out any impartiality.

Not precisely. From the Yale link: "the Anti-Defamation League commissioned First International Resources to develop a study of attitudes.... The resulting survey was administered by Taylor Nelson Sofres via telephone, resulting in interviews with 500 citizens in each of 10 countries for a total sample of 5,000."

When the Council on American-Islamic Relations releases a study saying discrimination and harassment of Muslim Americans is on the rise, should it be dismissed because the data was supplied by CAIR. Rules out any impartiality?

Here it is....on page 13, at the bottom, in the pdf file:

"While we thank the Anti-Defamation League for sharing their data with us, enabling the analysis reported in this article..."

http://www.yale.edu/isps/seminars/antis ... kaplan.pdf

[11:11]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

[GM Citizen]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

Obviously it is a sensitive subject for Jeff/Doodad. I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is. I suppose we all have subjects, that when we discuss them, to others it may appear we are not being rational, logical, sensible.

He has a strong attachment of some sort to it. It's very frustrating because he is an intelligent person, and the subject(s) of Israel's place in the world, past, present and future, is worth discussing without automatically slapping labels to stop debate in its tracks.

To post what I thought was a reasoned article delineating the difference between anti-zionist and anti-semitic, and then have the other N-word (nazi) tossed into the fray by Jeff...well, let's just say it was not quite the response I had hoped for.

Disclaimer: No super secret code words were knowingly used in this post.

[MASONIC PLOT]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

That is bullshit and you know it. Jeff is right about this, they use "zionism" as a code word for Jews, its not the zionists that they hate it is the JEWS. Stop being duped.

I know the difference between the two and I am sure you do also but, generally speaking, it is not about zionism it is about the fact that these people want to exterminate Jews en mass.

[slimmouse]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

That is bullshit and you know it. Jeff is right about this, they use "zionism" as a code word for Jews, its not the zionists that they hate it is the JEWS. Stop being duped.

I know the difference between the two and I am sure you do also but, generally speaking, it is not about zionism it is about the fact that these people want to exterminate Jews en mass.

What would be interesting within the context of this debate, is to establish exactly which is the greater and more pressing evil - Those who hide behind the veil of "anti zionism", and harbour evil intentions towards one "race" ( whatever that means ), or those who use the "Anti semite" card at every junction in order to cynically, and calculatingly repress criticism of their factual ongoing mass murder and inhumanity to innocents the world over ?

And, just to make myself clear, right here right now, when I refer to those who use the "Anti semite" card at every junction in order to cynically, and calculatingly repress criticism of their factual ongoing mass murder and inhumanity to innocents the world over ? , I have no particular race in mind, rather, an elite group of "multiracial/faith", vile, cunning, cold blooded territorial, mass murdering fucks.

Fuck me, they almost sound reptillian.

I guess its the ultimate proof of their cunning and influence that we truly need to tread carefully here

[yathrib]

There is plenty about Israel and Zionism not to like. But it's also true that any discussion of Israel or Zionism inevitably attracts neo-nazis and other people who are merely looking for anything that makes Jews look bad. I'm not sure what the answer is, except that people who criticize or oppose Zionism or Israeli policy have to make it clear--early and often--that these scumbags aren't welcome. It isn't fair that you have to do this, but tough s**t.

[11:11]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

That is bullshit and you know it. Jeff is right about this, they use "zionism" as a code word for Jews, its not the zionists that they hate it is the JEWS. Stop being duped.

I know the difference between the two and I am sure you do also but, generally speaking, it is not about zionism it is about the fact that these people want to exterminate Jews en mass.

It's not bullshit and I agree with slimmouse. For a while, anyone using the word 'neoCON' was also being accused as using code for anti Jewish. More bullshit.

[slimmouse]

There is plenty about Israel and Zionism not to like. But it's also true that any discussion of Israel or Zionism inevitably attracts neo-nazis and other people who are merely looking for anything that makes Jews look bad. I'm not sure what the answer is, except that people who criticize or oppose Zionism or Israeli policy have to make it clear--early and often--that these scumbags aren't welcome. It isn't fair that you have to do this, but tough s**t.

Agreed Yathrib.

So lets go one step further here.

Who's 'big idea' was Israel in the first place ?

Who's 'big idea' was the "organised religion" scam in the first place ?

And more pertinently, who benefits from this never ending state of war that the state of Israel has created ?

Are they any different to the people who created WW1 or WW2 ?

Or those who sponsored the rise of Hitler ?

Or those who subsequently gave us the Gulf of Tonkin incident ?

Or those who gave us 9/11 ?

Or those same people who have almost perfected the "Anti semite" card, and who have conned people to believe that "The jews" did it , and who, I have little doubt finance those sites who promote such myths ?

AFAIAC, If it isnt the same people - Those that have ruled by proxy ever since, then i'll be dipped in dogshit.

That may be a leap too far for most to take. I really don't give a shit. Im just asking that people think logically about this.

Who are these guys ?

[11:11]

Who are these guys ?

Same ones who runs the banks, financing all sides of wars and plunging the world in debt - to them. They're backing Hillary (and Giuliani) , lol. Kind of a great big hedge fund from hell.

[slimmouse]

Who are these guys ?

Same ones who runs the banks, financing all sides of wars and plunging the world in debt - to them. They're backing Hillary (and Giuliani) , lol. Kind of a great big hedge fund from hell.

So, who have conned us all into believing that, in particular, the "Jews did it " ?

Who created these "religions"?

I find it truly incredible that on a forum such as this, we can't get to the bottom of this, or at least attempt to.

[GM Citizen]

Boy, talk about stooping as low as possible. Rather than refute the facts about Israel and Zionism, just call the posters Nazis.

That is bullshit and you know it. Jeff is right about this, they use "zionism" as a code word for Jews, its not the zionists that they hate it is the JEWS. Stop being duped.

I know the difference between the two and I am sure you do also but, generally speaking, it is not about zionism it is about the fact that these people want to exterminate Jews en mass.

How incredibly ridiculous. Truly.

I started this thread with what I thought was a clear and concise delineation between anti-zionism (honest debate) versus anti-semitism (racism. It was all lumped under evil, nazi shit. What an utter load of crap.

If we all know it, then why can't we all discuss it? Because we all think we know the difference, and then we get bulldozed under the nazi bullshit pile.

I don't like what the zionists do, or have done in the past. It is that simple. It really is. It is people that disagree with me and say it is "code" for hating jews. Such shit, really.

Some or all nazis, or neo-nazis may be racist fear-mongering anti-semites and are quite likely anti-zionists too, but not every anti-zionist is an anti-semite or a nazi.

It is that simple. It is not a hard concept to understand. Most people get it.

The anti-semite card has been overused and has lost its effect for many people, so it appears now that the new smear card is nazi. And it appears that a person is a filthy anti-semitic nazi if they disagree.

C'mon folks, you are far too smart to shut down honest debate in this fashion.

[Jeff]

Who are these guys ?

Same ones who runs the banks

Any sense of irony, on a thread supposedly distinguishing anti-Zionism from anti-Semitism, that you're now talking about the "bankers"?