9/11 Truth Movement vs. 9/11 Truth

[8bitagent]

Fourthbase, stop being an illumist Fox News sheeple, and wake up and smell the thermate brother!

The Church of Controlled Demolition is the ONLY way to salvation!

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

..... Your entire post above wasn't just full of shit, it was overflowing with shit.

Later, FB. Enough fight club for tonight.

[FourthBase]

Why all that naughty naughty language? Does naughty language make one feel better? Such an emotional issue...I really like the Santa Claus connection. I guess we need our security blankets and binkies or we have tantrums. All the serious reseachers of 9/11 simply ask for a new, independant investigation. What's so emotional about that?

We're talking about a governmental mafia orchestrating the murder of thousands of civilians in order to start an illegal murderous war which has killed hundreds of thousands, and you're fucking tsk-tsk-ing me for profanity? This is how I talk, live with it.

[FourthBase]

..... Your entire post above wasn't just full of shit, it was overflowing with shit.

Later, FB. Enough fight club for tonight.

i.e., You got shit.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

Is 911 Truth attacking itself because it is so frustrated by its utter inability to really do a damn thing about all this?

I still don't see why CD physical-evidence based analysis cannot coexist alongside deep whodunnit analysis. Different things appeal to different people; as slimmouse said many pages back I know quite a few people who are completely convinced by the physical evidence alone. Maybe that is lazy, but maybe they are visual learners. The physical evidence doesn't do it for me completely, but taken in conjunction with all the other anomalies (wargames, put options, Hoffman Aviation, etc) it really seals the deal for me. In other words, one train of thought would probably never have been enough to put me over the edge into this crazy twilight zone of conspiracy research and activism (I've have done some activism, none really red-faced, but have petered out a bit these days I am sorry to say...)

And, 8bit, when is your book coming out? I'd really like to read all you have researched laid out in a tight, organized form. Sometimes it seems like your posts zing and zang around a bit and are a little difficult to follow... if you need a ghost-writer... I suggest Jeff

[8bitagent]

Is 911 Truth attacking itself because it is so frustrated by its utter inability to really do a damn thing about all this?

I still don't see why CD physical-evidence based analysis cannot coexist alongside deep whodunnit analysis. Different things appeal to different people; as slimmouse said many pages back I know quite a few people who are completely convinced by the physical evidence alone. Maybe that is lazy, but maybe they are visual learners. The physical evidence doesn't do it for me completely, but taken in conjunction with all the other anomalies (wargames, put options, Hoffman Aviation, etc) it really seals the deal for me. In other words, one train of thought would probably never have been enough to put me over the edge into this crazy twilight zone of conspiracy research and activism (I've have done some activism, none really red-faced, but have petered out a bit these days I am sorry to say...)

And, 8bit, when is your book coming out? I'd really like to read all you have researched laid out in a tight, organized form. Sometimes it seems like your posts zing and zang around a bit and are a little difficult to follow... if you need a ghost-writer... I suggest Jeff

You know, it's hard for me to admit, but it's pretty hard to convey my actual thought process on forums. I realize I come off very UN-scholary, scattershot, etc.

I'm a fan of a good thriller/procedural like most people. And while I appreciate their being fictional books like the new Shell Game, there really hasn't been that many gripping books about 9/11. They are either too dry, or too focused on the official al Qaeda alone meme.

So yeah, in between my work as a musician, graphic designer, "real job", cartooning/comic illustration, partying and working on film projects...I've decided to get going on a serious 9/11 historical narrative done in a more
thriller sort of vein. You really have to pour meticulously though many many "dry" books on al Qaeda, terror financing, etc. to find nuggets of useful information that matches with other evidence and trails. The problem is a concise narrative, because seven different media reports may report seven different things. For instance I do not believe any of the "19 hijackers" turned up alive.

I'm certainly about the physical evidence of the day...I mean it's pretty eerie when an NFL football player says the Flight 93 passengers were loaded from the tarmac and several passengers asked to be left off the plane. Even eerier that reports from the cell calls mention bombs going off in Flight 93 and pilots and stewardesses tied up and the use of guns.
The use of artificial intelligence in the 9/11 attacks is another major interest to me, touched on by Indira Singh, Rupert Murdoch, Richard Grove and others.

Basically what I see is 9/11 as a million piece jigsaw puzzle, scattered from a cargo plane. And it's quite a challenge to try and find every single piece and see where it fits.

I believe Mohamed Atta, Ziad Jarrah, Hani Hanjour, Nawaf al-Hamzi, Khalid al-Midhar, etc were all real people with real provable lives. This is something I think many of the truth movement wish not to look at, as it shocks them to see that yes...many of these guys were in the company of Afghani training camps and Osama himself. But the web is very very murky, I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

So yeah, I do zing and zang like an autistic pinball machine on Robin Williams crack when I hickup ideas on the internet. I'm trying to work on that, as that's quite different than how I write.

Ultimately I see 9/11 in a kind of comparative mythology and religion, worthy of Campbell or Jung dissection. These narratives have beginnings and ends, as much as they fit into a bigger framework, not merely isolated Fibonacci sequences. This is also why I see 9/11 partially in an esoteric looking glass that spirals backwards into antiquity.

To make a 9/11 book work to the viewer, it essentially has to follow
a "good guy", a "bad guy", and an anti-hero. 9/11 has all of that, with the ultimate geo political spy intrigue. Just the story surrounding Melvin Lattimore, Ali Mohamed, Nick Berg, Nawaf al-Hamzi and John O'neil is enough to make one's head spin.

[FourthBase]

I've decided to get going on a serious 9/11 historical narrative done in a more
thriller sort of vein.

So there won't be a hyperlinked precis of the juiciest connections and anomalies you've collected? Come on, please don't wait to put that shit out there in book form. Please.

[§ê¢rꆧ]

Heh, cool, zing and zang wasn't a diss... I enjoy your posts. Nice to hear you are writing a book. I haven't read Shell Game - is it really worthwhile? After casually looking at a list of the author's other work I didn't really think so...

[8bitagent]

Heh, cool, zing and zang wasn't a diss... I enjoy your posts. Nice to hear you are writing a book. I haven't read Shell Game - is it really worthwhile? After casually looking at a list of the author's other work I didn't really think so...

haha, maybe that was an unfair dig at Shell Game I made...it just seems like its written from a generic "neocons did 9/11" standpoint, which to me is not very interesting.

I've decided to get going on a serious 9/11 historical narrative done in a more
thriller sort of vein.

So there won't be a hyperlinked precis of the juiciest connections and anomalies you've collected? Come on, please don't wait to put that shit out there in book form. Please.

In reality, VERY few people read books. Let alone SMALL press books.
I seriously doubt, as much as I love the work of Peter Scott and Nafeez Ahmed, that many people have read those.

What you're talking about is a more easier to digest cooperative research, something I am working on. I love Paul Thompson's site, but it's near impossible for anyone to really pour though and have that lightbulb go off.
I'm thinking more in terms of a linear narrative, more cohesive than Jeff's Coincidence Theorist guide, more meat...but not overwhelming to pour through.

The Moussaoui trial evidence, cooperative research, etc has a lot of great stuff...but it's very difficult for the average researcher to assimilate and process.

[FourthBase]

Good to hear, 8bit!

[8bitagent]

I know everyone rags on Alex Jones and the late William Cooper...

but on June 28th 2001 on his radio show, William Cooper said that
in the next few months he's certain the new world order will stage a massive attack on America with Osama bin Laden as the figurehead. He said how odd it was the US cant find Osama, but a reporter did. He says its curious how many Osama stories were coming out that summer, and that the NWO needs to stage a devestating attack on America to get the people to submit to their tyranny

Then on July 25th Alex Jones echoed the same thing, saying that Osama was an NWO puppet, that the bin Laden family does the building for the elite, and that just like WTC 1993 and Oklahoma City, that a bin Laden blamed terror attack was coming to America very soon.

I like the September 19th 2001 interview where David Icke says that 9/11 was unquestionably the work of the occult elite of the new world order to advance their agenda

And the day of 9/11 itself, as the attacks were unfolding...Alex Jones and guests were on the radio talking about controlled demolition, numerology, the European elite, etc all involved...and that we would see anthrax be released in the next few weeks.

Just kind of interesting...or is it a stopped clock right twice a day analogy?

[FourthBase]

I know everyone rags on Alex Jones and the late William Cooper...

but on June 28th 2001 on his radio show, William Cooper said that
in the next few months he's certain the new world order will stage a massive attack on America with Osama bin Laden as the figurehead. He said how odd it was the US cant find Osama, but a reporter did. He says its curious how many Osama stories were coming out that summer, and that the NWO needs to stage a devestating attack on America to get the people to submit to their tyranny

Then on July 25th Alex Jones echoed the same thing, saying that Osama was an NWO puppet, that the bin Laden family does the building for the elite, and that just like WTC 1993 and Oklahoma City, that a bin Laden blamed terror attack was coming to America very soon.

I like the September 19th 2001 interview where David Icke says that 9/11 was unquestionably the work of the occult elite of the new world order to advance their agenda

And the day of 9/11 itself, as the attacks were unfolding...Alex Jones and guests were on the radio talking about controlled demolition, numerology, the European elite, etc all involved...and that we would see anthrax be released in the next few weeks.

Just kind of interesting...or is it a stopped clock right twice a day analogy?

I think it's more like, those three were given the script in advance, because anything those three touch is fundamentally discredited among the "serious" minded public. Maybe they'd been part of the perp mafia's team all along, the controlled "opposition", the well-poisoners for rational thought, for conspiracy realism. Or maybe they were just leaked the news in advance. Either way, the effect is still the same. Same as the Lone Gunmen pilot, too. Yes, those three were constantly forewarning us about end times and attacks and collapses and such...but the pre-9/11 warnings were on the specific and eerily accurate side for them. I don't think it's a coincidence. EDIT: I was saying "three" but the reference to Icke was from 9/19...WTF, why even bring him up, Icke is an irrelevant tool.

[8bitagent]

I tend to think that given Alex Jones and William Cooper were going on and on about staged government terror and "problem reaction solution", give bin Laden this/bin Laden that was indeed in a lot of news items as a threat in the summer of 2001; that Cooper and Jones kind of sensed something.

If I remember...The Lone Gunmen pilot was about war games acting as cover for a live exercise that electronically hijacked a passenger plane to slam it into the towers; done by a hidden faction in the government with high level advanced artificial intelligence....all to blame on a Muslim country and start wars/increase the military. Scripted in 1999, filmed in early 2000, then shown in March 2001.

Even this, I tend to think may have been a coincidence.

[IanEye]

You think TV nation can grok the stuff about NWO puppets whose names aren't even pronouncable that 8bitagent focuses on?

No way.

That's our Hugh, just filled to the brim with love for humanity...

Hunh? Nothing to do with "love for humanity," oh noble defender of the masses from the likes of me.

Where'd this non-sequitor come from? JoeHillsHoist made negative comments about my calling something too complex for activism, too.

Hugh, your very name is a pun for 'humanity wins'. TV Nation is humanity.

'grok' means 'comprehend'. You are stating plainly that humanity does not have the capacity to comprehend the world around it. That is why your pun of a name is a sick joke.

I am going to give humanity credit for being able to defend themselves, if they so choose, from the likes of you or anyone else, without my help. And however much it frustrates me at times, many human individuals simply choose to 'go along to get along'.

Until they don't.

When they make the choice, for themselves, to stop 'going along', each individual can be a powerful force.

You talk down to humanity Hugh.

Hugh winning and letting 'the masses' pat Him on the back isn't the same thing as the actuality of each human being defining victory on their own terms. It just isn't.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Even this, I tend to think may have been a coincidence.

People I know were dreaming of planes, nothing else, no buildings or terrorists, for 3 days leading up to 911. Someone else had a psychotic episode at the start of 1999 that included a vision about planes slamming into buildings in NY about 10 feet from where I'm sitting typing this, her twin sister was living in Ny at the time and she was on edge till her sister came home, in early 01.

I had dreams that I thought were nuclear war dreams as a kid, but on reflection they were of being in NYC that day between the planes hitting and the buildings coming down. (IT would always end as the building began to collapse.)

Then there was that whole Princeton thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if alot of the 911 imagery that predated it was synchronicity, or reverberations of the event, like ripples in time.

William Cooper I am a little sus on, but he could have been leaked to, or he could have figured it out too. Looking back the idea makes so much sense, you can see clues going back a way.

Ianeye. I agree with you - Hugh its snobbish and elitist to assume following that paper trail is beyond most people. Most people are capable of amazing things given the opportunity and someone with a little faith in them.

You aren't showing that as far as I'm concerned. The impression your comment gives me is that most people are too stupid to figure that stuff out. Thats unfair and wrong. You should be better than that.