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unaltered wrote:And if you have some kind of PROOF that I'm doing some JOB, spit it out or shut your hole.
8bitagent wrote:I think unaltered's knee jerk disdain for this discussion, is because in the mind of many; speaking of Israeli spies or Mossad=JEW.
And I think race and perception should be discussed.
Ive had people call my views on 9/11 "racist". They say "what do you mean you dont think a man in a cave and a few Muslim Arabs couldnt have done 9/11? Are you a racist?"
These same people then defend the US invasion of Afghanistan(or Iraq) which killed countless Muslims...a very racist thing.
I have no problem bashing Wahhabism, Radical Islam, etc because I know that that's merely a tool of the globalists. A way to control and divide.
Same thing with Zionist, fundamentalist Christianity, etc. No different than the time of Rome.
We're told by critics, that the media and government is always scapegoating and demonizing Muslims as barbarians.
Yet, the US government is in bed with the most oppressive Sharia law, terror supporting governments.
I mean it when I say I love the Jewish people, Israeli culture, etc.
Just like I love their Palestinian neighbors. The average Palestinian and Israeli just wants to live in peace.
But AIPAC, Netanyahu, neocons, globalist controlled Islamic extremists, etc are doing all they can to make sure peace doesnt happen
I find the notion that Israel did 9/11 baseless, as much as to me it's clear there is some link. A link I do not find taboo at all to discuss.
On second thought, I shouldnt put down people's beliefs that the neocon sockpuppets or Israeli Zionists did 9/11...as I mean, I clearly believe
a group of globalist Satanists able to tap into the Western and Middle Eastern networks and corporations orchestrated 9/11.
AlicetheKurious wrote:GM, you haven't put words in my mouth. Just because you're so nice, I'll stick my neck out and do something I really don't like to do, which is to post a highly controversial hypothesis at 2:00 am with no time to back up anything I say. The night before a very busy day.
What we know: Al Qaeda was created by the CIA decades ago to fight the government in Afghanistan. The CIA got their Saudi "allies" to massively fund al Qaeda and to assist in recruiting "jihadists", but it's highly revealing that while they relied on the Saudi regime for the cash and the personnel, in the thousands of new, fanatic madrasas that they founded all over Afghanistan with the help of their other "allies", Pakistan's ISI, the atrocious textbooks -- urging Muslim children to poke out the eyes and tear the limbs off 'infidels', were written and printed in Nebraska (using USAID funds). This indicates to me that they did not trust even their Wahhabist Saudi 'allies' to devise sufficiently crazed indoctrination materials for small Afghani children.
Over 15 years, al Qaeda -- "the (data) base" became a massive organization, headquartered in the complex at Tora-Bora, which was designed by U.S. engineers but financed and built by Saudi Arabians, including Osama bin Laden's construction firm. But the organization was far from limited to the borders of Afghanistan. Pakistan's ISI oversaw much of it for their American bosses, and helped with some of the logistics and infrastructure (telephone and electricity systems). As far away as the capitals of western Europe and among Muslim populations in eastern Europe, agents provocateurs were embedded to ensure a constant supply of fresh recruits. In this endeavor, the CIA was able to count upon the enthusiastic collaboration of a number of Western intelligence agencies, including the British, French and German, not to mention the Egyptian and others, who probably appreciated the potential advantages represented by such a pool of agents and cannon fodder for black ops.
So far, so good? Al Qaeda worked out very well for the Americans: not only were the Soviets defeated in Afghanistan, this defeat contributed significantly to the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989. Afterwards, the Americans found many other uses for their creation, in Bosnia, in Chechnya, in the Philippines and elsewhere.
The Saudi regime was perfectly happy to continue to provide financial and logistical and recruitment support: not only was al Qaeda a convenient way for them to get rid of troublesome elements, but they were openly supportive of al Qaeda's Wahhabist form of Islam being spread far and wide, thus bolstering the legitimacy of their own corrupt, Western-based rule by identifying themselves as religious authorities and patrons. At the same time, Western governments were happy to turn a blind eye to some of the more unsavoury activities of certain Saudi royals, including drug smuggling, human trafficking and other criminal activities, as long as the Saudis remained such loyal and generous friends.
AlicetheKurious wrote:Here's what I believe: although al Qaeda certainly did exist, and was implicated in various operations in Afghanistan, the Balkans and elsewhere in eastern Europe and Asia, there is no credible evidence whatsoever, none, that al Qaeda had anything to do with the September 11 attacks.
AlicetheKurious wrote:I think the September 11 attacks were a very carefully planned, high-tech crime that was designed to fulfill the objectives I've listed in my previous posts on this thread, and at the same time ensure that the blame would be assigned to "Arab Muslim fanatics".
Agreed, as much as some "Arab Muslims" are NWO tools and eager to do things for the powers that be.AlicetheKurious wrote: The clear evidence of the existence of the al Qaeda network was simply appropriated and used as "proof" that al Qaeda planned and carried out the attacks, even though there is no evidence linking the two.
Um, Alice...the POINT of 9/11 was to MAKE SURE al Qaeda were WILLING patsies, intimately involved at every point. It's called plausible deniability. Its like if I had agents convince homeless people and brainwashed patients to stand here, say this, etc. Doesnt mean they werent involved, just means they werent in control. I refuse to believe you know all this stuff(as youve demonstrated) yet can say al Qaeda had no involvement in 9/11. al Qaeda proves the NWO did 9/11.AlicetheKurious wrote:The whole visa imbroglio, very strong evidence that the designated "hijackers'" had doubles, the initial reports that many of the "hijackers" had attended air force and navy military training facilities in the U.S., the truly bizarre behaviour of the "hijackers'" probable doubles and other anomalies, combined with the absolute lack of any evidence that any hijackers boarded those planes, the laughable planted "evidence", etc., all point to a deliberate frame-up of the designated "hijackers" whom the FBI so quickly named, despite later admitting that the hijackers had left no paper trail, and despite the fact that even seven years later we have yet to see any credible evidence that actually tied them, still less al Qaeda, to the attacks.
No, it proves the CIA and Saudi intelligence made sure a special Visa program would allow the hijackers to come into America easily for the 9/11 operation. "Fast tracking". The "hijackers trained at US bases" is a red herring. The truth is Mohamed Atta was in Germany under CDS International being groomed as the ultimate mind control, rich boy assassin in Germany, and later in Florida. Able Danger picked up the Bosnian jihadists, the al Kifah center and Brooklyn cells that he dovetailed with. While we do not know what happened on those planes, we know that the 19 "hijackers" Were real people each with a story that connects them to the deep state. The hijackers left a HUGE paper trail...bread crumbs. Thats the point. They were lead around by Mohamed and handlers, making SURE they left plenty of trails.AlicetheKurious wrote:Furthermore, as I also mentioned earlier, there was no benefit to any of the designated Official Perps, nor to any of their countries of origin to be expected that would justify such a complicated, byzantine, incredibly difficult and fantastical plot, not to mention that none had the resources to pull it off. No motive, no means, no opportunity, no evidence. Nothing at all.
I also think that after the fact, the Bush administration offered inducements to their Saudi 'allies' to shut up and not make a fuss. It's very interesting to compare the initial reaction of the Saudi and Egyptian regimes to the attacks: the official airwaves and media were flooded with outraged aviation experts, military pilots and political analysts highlighting the weaknesses of the official story. Contrary to unaltered's ignorant mutterings, these did not focus on the lack of Jewish victims (although there were, intriguingly, only three Israeli victims -- including Daniel Lewin), but were far more concerned with the flight paths and the impossible level of expertise and experience required to carry out the flight maneuvers, not to mention the bizarre and inexplicable lack of a military response to an attack on what is known to be the most protected air space on earth.
Those points I can agree with. We now know Saudi Arabia helped stage the false flag attack that happened in Riyadh in 2003, so SA is clearly on the take as is Indonesia and these other oppressive regimes.AlicetheKurious wrote:However, this lasted for a very short time after the attacks, perhaps a few days, after which the Americans' official story suddenly became gospel. The previous experts were unceremoniously yanked off the air, to be replaced with other 'experts' who sneered and smilingly ridiculed 'conspiracy theories'.
What happened during that time to create a climate of zero-tolerance for questioning the US-version of the attacks? Threats? Bribes? Probably plenty of both.
The result is that questioning the Americans' version of the September 11 attacks and who planned and executed them, is officially as taboo in 'friendly' client states in the Middle East, as it is in the U.S..
Absolutely. Its funny, in interviews, ISI chief Hamid Gul, as well as bin Laden claimed the CIA and Mossad did 9/11. Problem is, Osama and Gul are deep state puppets. Theyre all in on it, ISI controlled al Qaeda, who works for the European secret cabals and Pentagon powers.AlicetheKurious wrote:Anyway, I think that with the invasion of Afghanistan, the genuine al Qaeda, cut off from its funding and the crucial support it received from western intelligence agencies headed by the CIA, its subsidiary the ISI and the Saudis, was pretty much kaput.
Everything we've seen since then is pure psyops, smoke and mirrors, with a few lame attempts to recruit a few thugs, arm them, invent a suitably sinister and shadowy leader for them, and then use them as a pretext for diverse skirmishes in the War on Terror, mostly in Iraq, but also in the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in Lebanon (near where the U.S. wants to set up a military base). The "Al Qaeda" bogeyman was also waved around in the Madrid bombings under the right-wing Aznar government to suppress the growing dissent over Spanish troops in Iraq, and in the London bombings to suppress the growing dissent over the passing of mandatory electronic ID cards. "Al Qaeda" has always been a handy tool, and some people see no need to give it up just because it no longer exists.
Anyway, that's the best I can do, given my level of exhaustion and my lack of time. Discuss.
GM Citizen wrote:8bit, wasn't there a film by some british folks that said the phrase "Al Qaeda" wasn't used or known until 2001? I may have that wrong, but it's the first thing that popped into my head while reading this.
I can see where Al Qaeda didn't/doesn't exist, except as a modern day version of Emanual Goldstein.
Al Qaeda is needed for the sheeple to keep in line. Nothing more, in my opinion.
How many Al Qaeda (just like the Taleban) have been killed already? Tens of thousands maybe? It's like Wack-a-Mole or Wack-A-Qaeda....everytime a dozen or so get killed, another dozen or so pop up. Gee, how convenient. Never mind the fact that these guys and their families were just peasants trying to eke out an existence under an occupying force. Once they're dead, they are designated terrorists, often Al-Qaeda....cuz there just can't be enough of 'em for the good ole US & UK, and their Coalition of the Paid For.
Doesn't Al-Qaeda also mean toilet?
[on edit] The film is called The Power of Nightmares
al Qaeda had no ties to 9/11? Are you kidding me? Want me to bring up Whahid el-Hage, al Kifah, Mohamed Atta, Able Danger, Khalid Mohamed and his ISI puppet masters, Omar Saeed the MI6 agent, Ali Mohamed, the control of Nawaf al Hamzi and Khalid al Midhar by Saudi Intelligence, etc?
The hijackers left a HUGE paper trail...bread crumbs. Thats the point. They were lead around by Mohamed and handlers, making SURE they left plenty of trails.
Robert S. Mueller, III, Director, FBI:
The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot.
I can go into great detail how al Qaeda was ALL over the 9/11 operation...
AlicetheKurious wrote:8bitagent wrote:al Qaeda had no ties to 9/11? Are you kidding me? Want me to bring up Whahid el-Hage, al Kifah, Mohamed Atta, Able Danger, Khalid Mohamed and his ISI puppet masters, Omar Saeed the MI6 agent, Ali Mohamed, the control of Nawaf al Hamzi and Khalid al Midhar by Saudi Intelligence, etc?
How does this list undermine my argument that there was a deliberate blurring of the lines between the two unrelated operations of 'al Qaeda' and the September 11 attacks?
The bottom line remains that there is no credible evidence linking the two, and a thick smokescreen designed to obscure the fact that in terms of means, motive and opportunity, there is no case for ascribing the attacks to al Qaeda. In stark contrast, there is a very solid case for ascribing the attacks to a highly-committed group of Israeli loyalists who had ample motive, means, opportunity, and whose fingerprints are all over the actual evidence related to the crime, as well as the subsequent cover-up.
What you need to do, 8bitagent, is this: when I say "there is no credible evidence linking the two", all you have to do, is to provide at least one example of 'credible evidence linking the two', and a rational, productive discussion can then go forward. Simply repeating lists of names and catch-phrases does not constitute an effective rebuttal of my statement.
You mention Mohamed Atta, but which Mohamed Atta do you mean? The shy, friendly, mildly religious, stolidly middle-class engineering student lured to Germany with the promise of a generous academic scholarship, who learned to speak excellent German and suffered from a fear of flying, or the alcoholic, coke-snorting pilot with the stripper girlfriend who spoke no German at all, hung out at Jack Abramoff's casino boat a few days before 9/11, ranted and raved loudly about being a pilot with American Airlines and admiring Osama bin Laden, left a copy of the Quran in a bar (!!) gambled in Las Vegas and spoke...Hebrew?
Then there's the little fact that neither of the at least two "Mohamed Attas" (including the one who was whoring and drinking at a former American Air Force Base in the Philippines during the late 90s at the same time the CIA claimed 'Mohamed Atta' was training at 'a terrorist training camp' in Afghanistan) can be proven to have even been in Boston on 9/11, let alone on the fateful planes...
I'm saying that one was the Egyptian guy, and the other was Israeli: either Mossad or a drug-runner with Abramoff's organized crime network.
I'm also saying that there was a deliberate plot to frame the former by using his double, the latter, as one part of the conspiracy to frame Arabs and Muslims for the crimes committed on 9/11, which demonstrably fulfilled their purpose, to advance right-wing zionist objectives to an extent that would simply not have been possible without those attacks.
If that alone doesn't cause big, fat alarm bells to clang for you, I've got a very nice historic bridge linking downtown Cairo to Zamalek I can be persuaded to let go real cheap.
8bitagent said:The hijackers left a HUGE paper trail...bread crumbs. Thats the point. They were lead around by Mohamed and handlers, making SURE they left plenty of trails.
None that linked them to the 9/11 attacks. None. Zip. Nada.Robert S. Mueller, III, Director, FBI:
The hijackers also left no paper trail. In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper – either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere – that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot.
Instead of making sweeping declarative statements like:I can go into great detail how al Qaeda was ALL over the 9/11 operation...
Why don't you go ahead and provide one piece of convincing evidence, just one? We can move on from there.
'LOVER': Amanda Keller
"It was my bad for lying. I really didn't think about it until after I did it."
By Heather Allen
Published Sunday, Sept. 10, 2006 at 4:53 a.m.
Last updated Sunday, Sept. 10, 2006 at 6:51 a.m.
For five years, Amanda Keller has been portrayed by conspiracy theorists as Mohamed Atta's lover.
But the former Venice stripper now says her boyfriend was another flight student not connected to 9/11. And, for the first time, federal investigators say she's right.
"There's nothing there to corroborate the relationship between the two," a New York-based FBI counterterrorism agent said recently after reviewing 9/11 case files.
The agent got clearance to talk from the U.S. Attorney's Office and the FBI, but only agreed if his named was not used.
Among other things, the government checked Atta's phone records and found the two had never called each other.
In 2002, Keller granted an interview with Daniel Hopsicker, a Venice self-published writer who maintains the government has covered up facts about 9/11.
In a taped interview that has circled the Internet, Keller casually discusses intimate details about her relationship with "Mohamed." She claimed it was Atta, but changed her story soon after.
"It was my bad for lying," Keller said. "I really didn't think about it until after I did it."
Keller, 24, is engaged and is studying to become a nurse. She moved to Ohio in early 2002 and said she hoped that by getting married and changing her name, she could finally leave the rumors behind.
Jeff wrote:Keller's not the only source for her story. Hopsicker heard it from eyewitness neighbours of Keller's before he even spoke to her.
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