Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby exojuridik » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:19 am

This whole argument that holds the CIA as the ultimate threat to the republic seems to prove to much. Were that the case they must be indistinguishable from the corporations and private interests who are actually profiting from the totalitarian future being created. And were that the case there seems to be little need for the CIA in the first place as the malefactors of great wealth are doing just fine robbing the planet blind in plain sight. IOW - what need is there for a rent-seeking, bureaucratic middle-man when the PTB are getting whatever they want anyway. What power could the CIA wield that a well-connected billionaire could not?

Ron Paul and the other devolutionists see promise in creating autonomous fiefdoms that rule under an archaic notion of sovereignty that was effectively obliterated by the first atomic explosion. We are all in this together now and there is no going back to some hackneyed vision of "freedom" and self-determination" that was just a propaganda slogan for manifest destiny to begin with. There is a very good reason these communities don't exist today - we have already opened the social/economic/ technological pandora's box that render quirky individualism moot as a governing philosophy. Even were the machine decimated and humanity left to begin again at year zero - how long would it take for certain interests to game the system and rebuild a global system of tyranny. Not long if all they had to do were to play a bunch of "self-determined" Vermonters and Texans off one another.

We are in the situation we are for very good reasons - it might be time to figure them out. Rather than chase old boogeymen or embrace cultish romanticism, would it not be better to figure out the whys and whats of our current predicament.

Shit - for all the machinations and contingent configurations of power alliances, the CIA might be one of the less bad guys for once. I've gotten to the point where I trust government clerks more than anyone in the corporate arena, if for no other reason, that I can better relate to someone just punching the clock while pulling in less than 6 figures.

God, this site is turning me into an establishment shill
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby stefano » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:58 am

American Dream wrote:Stefano, are you saying that implementation of "Free Trade", as commonly understood, would tend to reduce corporate dominance?

Well, it's a hypothetical since there is no real-world precedent to point to, but yes, I think it would. The central point you have to understand here is that neo-liberalism as we've seen it is not a free-market system. So maybe "as commonly understood" should be qualified, or amended to "as correctly understood", because the free-market system is commonly and erroneously understood to mean a system where government promotes profits from capital at the expense of labour, implements tariffs and tax laws to boost domestic companies' profits, allows the abuse of patent and copyright law to protect the market share of established operators, punishes labour unions and so on. That's not a free-market system, that's a racket.

Starting from the situation we have now, the three most obvious policies that a government committed to a free market would implement are the abolition of subsidies and tariffs, the revision of intellectual property laws, and the scaling back of imperialist war (which creates artificial demand). If these things happen, the economy we'll end up with will be much, much more competitive, and yes, will reduce corporate dominance. From time to time a company will pop up with a better idea or better business model than competitors and attain temporary dominance, but the ideas will quickly be copied by others and these too-big-to-fail behemoths, which, let's not forget, depend on compliant judges and governments for their survival, will be a thing of the past.

American Dream wrote:The neo-Liberal models promoted by the Chicago School and others of that ilk have done exactly the opposite, no?

Why do you think Neo-liberalism in practice has anything to do with free-market theory? Because the propaganda tells you it does? They're lying. The neo-liberals in the US under Reagan and, most disastrously in Argentina and Chile, weren't trying to build a free market, they were working for the big corporations in order to maximise profits.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby American Dream » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:24 am

Stefano, I think most of us understand that the moniker "free trade" is a clever PR ruse- that it's not really about Freedom for the majority at all, much less Justice...

As to your hypothetical economic system, I understand what you're getting at but do you really think there's evidence that the "free trade" agenda of a Ron Paul presidency would have the vision and the wherewithal to help create more just economic relationships for the world as a whole?
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby stefano » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:11 pm

American Dream wrote:As to your hypothetical economic system, I understand what you're getting at but do you really think there's evidence that a Ron Paul presidency would have the vision and the wherewithal to help create more just economic relationships for the world as a whole?

I think there is, yes. ronpaul2008.com is down now so I went to Wiki: Political positions of Ron Paul, which is a bit shit. The below represents some digging.
Imperial war: Paul's stance on foreign policy is one of consistent nonintervention, which avoids war of aggression and entangling alliances with other nations.
Tariffs and subsidies: Paul has voted against federal subsidies for the oil and gas industry, and is consistently against farming subsidies. He thinks tariffs are necessary to fund government but that they should be uniform, i.e. not tailored to special industrial interests. He's been very outspoken about this bailout bullshit.
Unions: "the right to unionise should be a basic right for any group. [...] you should never deny any group the right to organise for the best standards and working conditions"
Intellectual property: I couldn't find anything from the horse's mouth but he's voted against a number of 'free-trade' agreements that have included clauses allowing US companies to enforce IP rights in other countries.

So, yeah, if he were boss I definitely think the big corporations would lose some of their hold.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby Sweejak » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:17 pm

American Dream wrote:Stefano, I think most of us understand that the moniker "free trade" is a clever PR ruse- that it's not really about Freedom for the majority at all, much less Justice...

As to your hypothetical economic system, I understand what you're getting at but do you really think there's evidence that the "free trade" agenda of a Ron Paul presidency would have the vision and the wherewithal to help create more just economic relationships for the world as a whole?


If one can ever believe the word of a politician, then yes.

Look at the use of the word 'democracy'. It's become a terror word to much of the world and that is because the word has been hijacked. The same goes for 'free market'. One doesn't of course have to believe it might work but it's original intent ought to be preserved or a new word given to it.

I'm not sure who is more unrealistic, because it seems the progressives believe that more government is a great idea, if only we could find good people to run it. As if! In my lifetime I have not seen good government. Sure I've seen good things happen locally and there are exceptions even on the national level, but overall, no.

And a bit of rambling, last time I looked I would need something like 6-8 years of schooling to become a woodworker in Germany. You know, to be licensed and approved, able to join the right clubs and unions etc and to be able to put out a sign. Here in Texas or most of the US I don't have to know jack about woodworking to put up a sign. My education and abilities are my own problem, I don't have to join any clubs, my prices aren't set by a union, my success hinges on how my customers perceive my work and how well it is made. Both systems have their pluses but I prefer the way it is allowed over here. You'd think that both ways could be allowed. I don't think so, because the government run way couldn't stand the competition. So, for me that is an example of libertarianism, free enterprise, free markets.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby elfismiles » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:55 pm

Woot! And RIGHT ON Stefano!

It coulda been Paul! I really think he would have changed some REAL IMPORTANT stuff, or at least would have truly tried to ... before perhaps being co-opted or killed.

I can't believe so many folks bought into the hopey changey thing - especially those who've been around politics longer than I have.

I still can't believe shit-head CIA-infiltrator wolf-in-sheeps-clothing Bob Barr was allowed into the Libertarian Pres campaign. And his dissing of McKinney, Nader and Paul ... that was the last straw.

Meantime, apparently, Dr. Paul says the reason he said those CIA comments was because he's working on another book, this one about the CIA it sounds, and there atrocities were foremost in his mind - so that would seem to be the impetus behind his brash and bold statement.

Smiles said: BTW - Scott Horton had Dr. Paul on his show today - about this quote and other stuff I believe. The podcast of the interview isn't up yet but the entire show archive is up ... think Ron Paul starts an hour into the 2 hour show:

EDIT: Paul is on at 30 minutes in...

http://kaosradioaustin.org/audio/downlo ... 010%29.mp3


stefano wrote:
American Dream wrote:As to your hypothetical economic system, I understand what you're getting at but do you really think there's evidence that a Ron Paul presidency would have the vision and the wherewithal to help create more just economic relationships for the world as a whole?

I think there is, yes. ronpaul2008.com is down now so I went to Wiki: Political positions of Ron Paul, which is a bit shit. The below represents some digging.
Imperial war: Paul's stance on foreign policy is one of consistent nonintervention, which avoids war of aggression and entangling alliances with other nations.
Tariffs and subsidies: Paul has voted against federal subsidies for the oil and gas industry, and is consistently against farming subsidies. He thinks tariffs are necessary to fund government but that they should be uniform, i.e. not tailored to special industrial interests. He's been very outspoken about this bailout bullshit.
Unions: "the right to unionise should be a basic right for any group. [...] you should never deny any group the right to organise for the best standards and working conditions"
Intellectual property: I couldn't find anything from the horse's mouth but he's voted against a number of 'free-trade' agreements that have included clauses allowing US companies to enforce IP rights in other countries.

So, yeah, if he were boss I definitely think the big corporations would lose some of their hold.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:09 pm

exojuridik wrote:
God, this site is turning me into an establishment shill



No I think that power is yours alone.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby 23 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:29 pm

Hindsight is, indeed, amazing.

I recall visiting a few "progressive" boards in 2007 and 2008 and trying to conduct a discussion on some of Dr. Paul's positions on the issues. In between the retorts of "right winger", "racist", etc., I tried to have the kind of discussion that is afoot here. 'Twas a challenge, for sure.

And when Kucinich, Nader, and McKinney put their arms around Dr. Paul towards the end of the campaign, boy were they supremely pissed.

Hindsight is amazing indeed.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby Gouda » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:14 pm

Why do our libertarian friends rush to hail Doctor Paul as such a radical truth teller before critically examining if his notion that "the CIA runs the US Gov and military" is even accurate? The assertion, as a bare minimum starting point, is competitively plausible, no doubt. And yes, the CIA - which is and isn't the "CIA", as others have pointed out - needs to be ‘taken out’. (Among many other critters and complex systems). However, what Paul says, way too simplistically and erroneously, misses the bigger picture as well as fudges the details. If a case is to be made, his case ain't making it. For example, in his speech, he puts his doctorate in peril by asserting that the CIA is pushing the Military (not to be confused with certain individual soldiers) to fight wars it doesn’t want to fight. Ahem. Wrongo, and that also leaves the industrial war complex out of the…complex. And he’s in error about it being only the CIA, and not also the military lobbing bombs on countries, running drones. Is he serious? Is Paul trying to get Mullen, Petreaus, McChrystal and their special operations hit squads off the hook?

By the way, I hear that the Federal Reserve is deeply wounded that Paul has demoted them.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby Nordic » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm

exojuridik wrote:This whole argument that holds the CIA as the ultimate threat to the republic seems to prove to much. Were that the case they must be indistinguishable from the corporations and private interests who are actually profiting from the totalitarian future being created. And were that the case there seems to be little need for the CIA in the first place as the malefactors of great wealth are doing just fine robbing the planet blind in plain sight. IOW - what need is there for a rent-seeking, bureaucratic middle-man when the PTB are getting whatever they want anyway. What power could the CIA wield that a well-connected billionaire could not. l



Well, in fact, what you're suggesting IS the way it is. Wall Street and the CIA go hand-in-hand, and always have. I figured everybody here was aware of this, but maybe not.

Here's a little something I wrote some time ago about Buzzy Krongard:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/7/03944/94402

It's a good place to start.

Tenet created Krongard's position at the CIA. The put-options on American Airlines were embarrassingly traced back to Krongard's Wall Street firm. Check it out. It's the tip of the iceberg. The CIA used to only recruit from the Ivy Leagues and Wall Street.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby Sweejak » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:38 pm

23 wrote:Hindsight is, indeed, amazing.

I recall visiting a few "progressive" boards in 2007 and 2008 and trying to conduct a discussion on some of Dr. Paul's positions on the issues. In between the retorts of "right winger", "racist", etc., I tried to have the kind of discussion that is afoot here. 'Twas a challenge, for sure.

And when Kucinich, Nader, and McKinney put their arms around Dr. Paul towards the end of the campaign, boy were they supremely pissed.

Hindsight is amazing indeed.


Yeah. Too true. You know it wasn't just who you would expect to go for Paul, I had a whole collection of articles I culled from Counterpunch that I tried to use to show my "liberal" friends the merits of at least thinking about Paul. After the primary voting I went down to the precinct meeting, every friend I had was at the Democrat side across the street, they thought I was a traitor, a plant, as I walked into the Repuke side as a Paul supporter,heh, when I came over to visit with them they thought I was a spy. AHAHAHAHAHahaha! I don't need the "Left" telling me how dumb the"Right" is. I've seen the same behavior on both fronts, there isn't any difference, there isn't any superior political perception. Nope not on a R vs L scale anyway.

Well, they ain't laughing anymore. I've got gallons of shadenfreude concentrate mixed up and ready to use if need be. I witnessed something ya'll would think could only happen to a Red Stater. One of my close friends, educated, well read, smart, honest with a good heart actually put her hands over her ears when I told her about Obama and more troops for Afghanistan, that he wasn't going to get rid of Blackwater.. etc etc, basically the stuff that Joe Cannon was doing. Literally put her hands over her ears.

Hell, I've got the luxury of never having my candidates win, which offers me relatively safe bitching rights. It's not fair.

Anyway, here are the CP url's
http://www.counterpunch.org/taylor01022008.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/goff01042008.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank12122007.html

Who is going to Sheehan's Peace of the Action in DC?
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby American Dream » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:49 pm

This article is a couple of years old but it does convey some concerns about Ron Paul:


Don't Believe the Hype (Ron Paul is Not Your Savior)

November 14, 2007

By Aura Bogado




Congressman and presidential hopeful Ron Paul has always opposed the Iraq war, and that's really, really great. I'm happy for him. The right wing ideologue actually gets the war, the CIA's practice of so-called extraordinary rendition and Guantanamo right - but the balance of what he gets wrong is glaring and is almost as frightening as the amount of friends and colleagues I respect that have signed on as Ron Paul supporters. People seem to like that he appears to be an unusual Republican candidate, but right below the surface of the libertarian mask that Paul wears is an ultra nationalist, gun loving Christian conservative that opposes affirmative action, a woman's right to choose and same-sex marriage. And... oh yeah: he hates immigrants.

Paul is Not an Anti-Capitalist

Despite his record-breaking online fundraising effort, it's more likely that pigs will fly before Paul wins the Republican primary. Regardless, I'm dismayed at the left-wing, anti-capitalist buzz around him, including the comparisons between him and Noam Chomsky. Paul's vision for the harsh privatization of everything from education to social security would only yield monopolies that don't work for everyday people, much like our current healthcare system. The presidential candidate advocates dismantling the few positive governmental regulations that secure working-class rights and benefits, including welfare - again, clearly not anti-capitalist. And while I can admire that any politician would call for ending the US' support of Israel, it follows in the vein of Paul's nationalist, isolationist concept of abolishing the United Nations and other diplomatic efforts to conserve our own opulence while leaving the rest of the world to waste.

I Loves My Guns

Paul calls himself a strict abider of the Constitution, and says that the relationship between the People and government is important. Unfortunately, I wonder how many people would be left if we adhered to this Texan's ideas surrounding the Second Amendment. Paul, who has earned an A-rating by the National Rifle Association, champions the cause to allow people to carry concealed firearms. And although ruling after ruling has clarified that the Constitution does not guarantee people the right to run around lugging assault rifles, Paul loves his guns and according to him the issue is not even up for debate. Add to this the fact that legislation like the 1968 Gun Control Act (which was approved after the John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and Robert F. Kennedy were killed with um... guns) was passed in a way in which Paul would likely interpret as unconstitutional, and you quickly realize how fanatical this man is about the Second Amendment.

Paul and the Christian Right

Paul opposes the separation of Church and State. Yes, you read correctly, he opposes it. He says there is a war on religion, and that "Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view." We should remember that when writing about the First Amendment of the Constitution (which clearly states that "government will make no law respecting an establishment of religion"), Thomas Jefferson coined the term "separation of Church and State". If Paul's theocratic concepts were instituted, we would have Old Testament displays at the nation's courthouses, and Christian prayers would be part of each child's school day.

His religious conservatism seems to inform his views on topics as elementary as evolution when it comes to education. When asked if he would encourage presenting so-called facts to contradict the theory of evolution in schools, he answered yes. This "alternative view" on the theory of evolution means teaching the concept of intelligent design- a pseudoscience which real scientists dismiss as another attempt to once again introduce creationism into public classrooms. No thank you. Intelligent design may have its place in church, on the street or at home, but in terms of science, it doesn't propose any hypotheses which can be tested through experiment; it's simply not science. Teachers should certainly not be forced to teach right-wing conservative Christian ideals about God in any classroom. When I take a biology course, I go to learn about accepted theory. When I want to hear about God, I'll go to church.

Paul also says that abortion is the tool by which the State achieves "a program of mass murder". A staunch pro-lifer who writes books on the topic in his spare time, he thinks States should decide the matter (read: allow states to overturn decisions like Roe v. Wade to allow new laws to protect the rights of what the Christian right calls "unborn people"). Under Paul's proposal, States could conceivably pass laws that bar women from obtaining abortions, including in cases of rape or incest, and even when the woman's life is at risk. Any person that values the right of any woman to choose what she will and will not do with her own body should take caution - Paul is to the extreme right of the political spectrum on this issue. I understand that Presidents do not decide abortion policy, but we have yet to see what Bush's Supreme Court appointments will yield in terms of abortion rights in the years to come. Any presidential candidate that would move to allow States to eradicate women's rights doesn't deserve the attention and praise he's getting from the Left.

When it comes to same-sex marriage, Paul says that federal government should play no role in the matter and that anyone can get married and call their relationship whatever they want. On its surface, that may sound fair enough. However, Paul was an original co-sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act in the House. Passed in the House in 2004, the bill sought to preclude federal courts from transferring the recognition of same-sex marriage across state lines. For example, a same-sex marriage that took place in Massachusetts would not be acknowledged in Alabama. Addressing the House in 2004, Paul made clear that if he was a member of the Texas legislature he would bar judges from advocating "new definitions" of marriage. Those of us who truly believe that anyone has the right to be married and to be recognized as such should realize that Paul's sometimes careful wording around the issue camouflages his Christian conservatism which defines marriage as something that can solely occur between a man and a woman.

Affirmative What?

Both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. headed to Washington in March, 1964 to hear the historic Senate debate on the Civil Rights Act. The legislation, which was passed a few months later, banned segregation in schools and public spaces and made it illegal to discriminate in housing and hiring processes. Malcolm, Martin, and millions of people of color and their supporters knew that such legislation would permanently influence and reduce de jure discrimination across entire nation, including the reach of Jim Crow laws in the South. They also knew that it was a necessary step towards reducing the de facto discrimination that followed. Yet Ron Paul says that the Civil Rights Act was a violation of the Constitution and that it reduced individual liberties. Last year, Paul was one of only 33 Congress members to vote against Voting Rights Act renewal, despite the fact that 390 of his colleagues voted for it. Paul seems to want to go back to the times when racial segregation was the norm and the law.

Paul is against affirmative action because, he says, no one should be punished or privileged for belonging to a group, and everyone should be treated as an individual. In stating this, Paul conveniently ignores the truth that individuals from the white group are treated one way and individuals from the people of color group are treated another way. He detests calls for diversity, and adds that those of us who base our identities on race are "inherently racist". His logic in the latter statement is so far removed from reality that it makes it difficult to respond to - suffice to say that people of color do not have the institutional power to be racist against whites; his statement instead illustrates his own racism. But it gets a lot worse: Paul's political literature has stated that it is sensible to be afraid of black men; that "95 percent of African Americans in [Washington D.C.] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal"; that black male children (but not white ones) should be treated and tried as adults for crimes they commit beginning at age 13; and he referred to two black men that were interviewed by Ted Koppel after the Los Angeles 1992 uprising as "animals". Kanye West was right when he said, "George Bush doesn't care about black people." Guess what? If his own political literature is any indication, Ron Paul loathes black people.

Supporters who have gone as far as to donate money to Paul's campaign should bear in mind that he has knowingly also taken donations from white supremacist and former KKK GrandWizard Don Black. Other white supremacists like David Duke also support Paul's bid for President. It's easy for Paul to dismiss affirmative action as something that violates individual liberty, but what hides behind that is the fact that he is a hate-spewing presidential candidate aligned with some of the most blatant, odious racists on the planet.

More "American" Than You and I

Not surprisingly, Paul offensive terms like "illegal alien", "illegal immigrant" or plain-old "illegals" when referring to human beings who live in the United States without proper documentation. Besides "beaner", "spic" and "wetback", I cannot immediately think of other words that approximate the bigotry that these terms are loaded with. In this regard, however, nearly all presidential candidates and even well-meaning everyday people continue to use these terms - except that Paul is not well-meaning when it comes to the undocumented.

While addressing a group of supporters, Paul claimed that in terms of work ethic, some undocumented workers "are more American than some of us." WASP purists like Paul employ a type of historical amnesia which yields an artificial yet neutral-sounding identity that they call "American". Perhaps if Paul wasn't such an isolationist he would realize that there actually are two continents worth of people that call themselves American, and that the ones that do so in the United States are not a chosen bunch. The truth is that the practice of pioneer colonialism in the U.S. illegally and immorally took land from various indigenous populations. Those pioneer immigrants, who illegally brought African slaves with them, tried to enforce and superimpose their cultural and linguistic practices on this stolen territory while almost completely exterminating the people that they took the land from. Those original populations that were not killed were illegally displaced against their will. In practice, these pioneer immigrants illegally crossed national borders, and as a result their decedents continue to reap the structural benefits that were created. But instead of claiming this pioneer immigrant identity (which requires a truthful look into an uneasy past) they appropriate a fear-based, racist "American" identity and demonize contemporary immigrants instead.

In Paul's fuzzy logic, all immigrants are here to suck the country dry of its welfare, education and emergency healthcare systems. If it was up to Paul, those systems would be voided for not only undocumented, but for documented immigrants as well. Forget that both groups pay into the income, property and retail tax system. Ignore that time and time again, studies indicate that the undocumented pay more into the system than they take out. According to Paul, even documented immigrants should be stripped of any government subsidy. He also says that children born to undocumented immigrants on US soil should not be allowed to hold citizenship. The so-called strict abider of the Constitution wants to overturn the Fourteenth Amendment so that children born to undocumented immigrants are stripped of their birthright. Besides the serious moral dilemmas surrounding his radical proposal, the practical limitations are copious. What if one parent is documented but the other is not? What if both parents were undocumented, but from different countries? What if they were from the same country, but the country of origin refused to recognize the child as a citizen of that land? Paul's scheme (like so many of his others) is completely absurd.

Deconstructing Ron Paul

It's really not very complicated: people who are or stand with workers, the poor, women, queer folks, people of color and immigrants will need to look far beyond this candidate. Despite his supporter's efforts to ignore the man behind the façade, it's time to get real and deconstruct the pretense. Ron Paul is a free market capitalist who doesn't care for the rights of workers or the poor; he is a gun-loving friend of the NRA, he is a radical Christian conservative who thinks that school prayer and intelligent design have a God-given place in public schools, that a woman's right to choose should be crushed, and that same-sex marriage is repugnant; he is a Congressman that has voted against affirmative action and thinks that desegregation somehow violated the Constitution; and he is a candidate that hates immigrants. Yes, we are sick and tired of Washington, but just because Bush has failed so deeply does not mean we can latch on to the very first presidential hopeful who wants to bring the troops home immediately, yet simultaneously destroy the rights and benefits we have struggled for centuries to achieve. Paul is certainly not the answer and we need to stop pretending that he is. I recognize and can appreciate that he stands against the Iraq War and everything that the so-called War on Terror has wreaked at home and abroad. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.


Aura Bogado is a writer and radio producer. She blogs at tothecurb.wordpress.com

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URL: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/17406
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby elfismiles » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:15 am

Gouda, perhaps you've heard more of the speech than the rest of us because the clip linked to in the OP is like 45 seconds long.

In Scott Horton's interview with Dr. Paul he explains as I said...

...the reason he said those CIA comments was because he's working on another book, this one about the CIA it sounds, and there atrocities were foremost in his mind - so that would seem to be the impetus behind his brash and bold statement.


Hear for yourselves...


Rep. Ron Paul

January 22, 2010| Civil Liberties, Economics, Empire, Ron Paul | Scott Horton

Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) discusses his disinterest in political parties, the slippery slope from indefinitely detaining foreign terrorism suspects to designating domestic criminals “enemy combatants,” why the US empire is more likely to end from the dollar’s collapse than a reasoned decision to return to a republic, the diminishing returns from intelligence spending and why reestablishing gold and silver as currency is a good idea.

MP3 here. (29:49)
http://scotthorton.org/radio/10_01_21_paul.mp3

Congressman Ron Paul represents Texas’s 14th district. He is the author of The Revolution: A Manifesto, A Foreign Policy of Freedom: Peace, Commerce, and Honest Friendship and Freedom Under Siege. His archived columns for Antiwar.com appear at http://original.antiwar.com/paul

http://antiwar.com/radio/2010/01/22/rep-ron-paul-9/



Gouda wrote:Why do our libertarian friends rush to hail Doctor Paul as such a radical truth teller before critically examining if his notion that "the CIA runs the US Gov and military" is even accurate? The assertion, as a bare minimum starting point, is competitively plausible, no doubt. And yes, the CIA - which is and isn't the "CIA", as others have pointed out - needs to be ‘taken out’. (Among many other critters and complex systems). However, what Paul says, way too simplistically and erroneously, misses the bigger picture as well as fudges the details. If a case is to be made, his case ain't making it. For example, in his speech, he puts his doctorate in peril by asserting that the CIA is pushing the Military (not to be confused with certain individual soldiers) to fight wars it doesn’t want to fight. Ahem. Wrongo, and that also leaves the industrial war complex out of the…complex. And he’s in error about it being only the CIA, and not also the military lobbing bombs on countries, running drones. Is he serious? Is Paul trying to get Mullen, Petreaus, McChrystal and their special operations hit squads off the hook?

By the way, I hear that the Federal Reserve is deeply wounded that Paul has demoted them.
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby elfismiles » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:20 am

American Dream wrote:This article is a couple of years old but it does convey some concerns about Ron Paul:


Don't Believe the Hype (Ron Paul is Not Your Savior)

November 14, 2007

By Aura Bogado


And... oh yeah: he hates immigrants.

URL: http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/17406


Bullshit! Why should I read any frakking further?
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Re: Ron Paul: CIA runs the U.S. government

Postby Gouda » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:04 am

Gouda, perhaps you've heard more of the speech than the rest of us because the clip linked to in the OP is like 45 seconds long.

elfi, no, I heard only what is in that short clip. It's all in there. Everything I wrote is drawn from what Paul said in that part of his speech. He says that the military and moral and money is down, yet we "are going looking for a couple more wars to fight." He adds that there has been a CIA coup and "but no, we don't have to worry, it's not the military anymore." As if the military is being dragged into wars against their will by the CIA. Then he says that the CIA runs the military and that "they're the ones over there lobbing missiles and bombs." Again, misleading, not the whole story.

Thanks for the link to the scott horton interview. I'll check it out.
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