Israel's Enabler in the U. S.

[Joe Hillshoist]

And my friend's.

[17breezes]

I don't deny The Jewish Holocaust, never have never will, but you sir deny mine.

No one said you were a denier; that's something derived from your own psyche. What you are is plain to see. If you really cared about YOUR holocaust you would spend time talking about it rather than blaming Jews. More of the former and less of the latter would be good for your soul.

[NeonLX]

*cough cough* Aboriginal Americans *cough cough*

*cough cough* Aboriginal Australians *cough cough*

[seemslikeadream]

I don't deny The Jewish Holocaust, never have never will, but you sir deny mine.

No one said you were a denier; that's something derived from your own psyche. What you are is plain to see. If you really cared about YOUR holocaust you would spend time talking about it rather than blaming Jews. More of the former and less of the latter would be good for your soul.

Well there you go again breezey, you deny calling me a denier and then the very next sentence you say I am blaming the Jews. So which is it breezey? And the only reason I bring up the Irish Holocaust when I see you is to remind you there have been others. Otherwise I wouldn't mention it.

[seemslikeadream]

*cough cough* Aboriginal Americans *cough cough*

*cough cough* Aboriginal Australians *cough cough*

Forgive me for not mentioning, so many holocausts so little time

The Dreaming is the time of creation..
Australian Aboriginal mythology, Dreamtime, and Dreaming



Aboriginals believe in two forms of time; two parallel streams of activity. One is the daily objective activity, the other is an infinite spiritual cycle called the "dreamtime", more real than reality itself. Whatever happens in the dreamtime establishes the values, symbols, and laws of Aboriginal society. It was believed that some people of unusual spiritual powers had contact with the dreamtime.



Indigenous Australians' oral tradition and spiritual values are based upon reverence for the land and a belief in this Dreamtime. The Dreaming is at once both the ancient time of creation and the present day reality of Dreaming. There were a great many different groups, each with their own individual culture, belief structure, and language.

"The Dreaming" was the time of creation.

Dreaming stories vary throughout Australia, and there are different versions on the same theme. For example, the story of how the birds got their colors is different in New South Wales and in Western Australia[citation needed]. Stories cover many themes and topics, as there are stories about creation of sacred places, land, people, animals and plants, law and custom. It is a complex network of knowledge, faith, and practices that derive from stories of creation, and which pervades and informs all spiritual and physical aspects of an indigenous Australian's life.



They believe that every person in an essential way exists eternally in the Dreaming. This eternal part existed before the life of the individual begins, and continues to exist when the life of the individual ends. Both before and after life, it is believed that this spirit-child exists in the Dreaming and is only initiated into life by being born through a mother. The spirit of the child is culturally understood to enter the developing fetus during the 5th month of pregnancy.[3]. When the mother felt the child move in the womb for the first time, it was thought that this was the work of the spirit of the land in which the mother then stood. Upon birth, the child is considered to be a special custodian of that part of their country and taught of the stories and songlines of that place. As Wolf (1994: p.14) states: "A black 'fella' may regard his totem or the place from which his spirit came as his Dreaming. He may also regard tribal law as his Dreaming." [4]

One of the beliefs was that before animals and humans and plants were created, there were souls and they knew that they would become physical,but not know when. They then knew the time was right and they all one by one all said "we will do our very best to try to help the one that takes care of us all." Then they all became animals and the plants. Then the last soul became the human. That is why Aboriginal people respect the environment and want to be with the nature because they are their friends.

Traditional Australian indigenous peoples embrace all phenomena and life as part of a vast and complex system-reticulum of relationships which can be traced directly back to the ancestral Totemic Spirit Beings of The Dreaming. This structure of relations, including food taboos, was important to the maintenance of the biological diversity of the indigenous environment and may have contributed to the prevention of overhunting of particular species.

These cultures overlapped to a greater or lesser extent, and evolved over time. The Rainbow Serpent is a major Ancestral being for many Aboriginal people across Australia, whereas Baiame or Bunjil are regarded as the primary creator-spirits in South-East Australia. Dingo Dreaming is a significant Ancestor in the interior regions of Bandiyan as Dingo formed the songlines that cross the continent from north to south and east to west.[2] The Yowie and Bunyip are other ancestral beings.

The Rainbow Serpent (also known as the Rainbow Snake) is an important mythological being for Aboriginal people across Australia, although the creation myths associated with it are best known from northern Australia.

The Rainbow Serpent is seen as the inhabitant of permanent waterholes and is in control of life's most precious resource, water. He is the underlying Aboriginal mythology for the famous Outback "bunyip". He is the sometimes unpredictable Rainbow Serpent, who vies with the ever-reliable Sun, that replenishes the stores of water, forming gullies and deep channels as he slithered across the landscape, allowing for the collection and distribution of water.

Dreamtime stories tell of the great Spirits during creation, in animal and human form they molded the barren and featureless earth. The Rainbow Serpent came from beneath the ground and created huge ridges, mountains and gorges as it pushed upward. The Rainbow Serpent is known as Ngalyod by the Gunwinggu and Borlung by the Miali. He is a serpent of immense proportions which inhabits deep permanent waterholes.[1]

Serpent stories vary according to environmental differences. Tribes of the monsoonal areas depict an epic interaction of the Sun, Serpent and wind in their Dreamtime stories, whereas tribes of the central desert experience less drastic seasonal shifts and their stories reflect this.

It is known both as a benevolent protector of its people (the groups from the country around) and as a malevolent punisher of law breakers. The rainbow serpent's mythology is closely linked to land, water, life, social relationships and fertility.

There are innumerable names and stories associated with the serpent, all of which communicate the significance and power of this being within Aboriginal traditions.

The myth of the Rainbow serpent is sometimes associated with Wonambi naracoortensis, a large snake of the now extinct megafauna of Australia.



The Aborigines of Australia

Australian Aborigines were almost exterminated by the English colonizers. Today, they represent only 1% of the Australian population, roughly estimated at around 200,000 people. When Captain Cook arrived in 1770, there were about 300,000 of them. The Aborigines inhabited Australia for at least 25,000 years (this was proven by Carbon 14 on paintings left on rocks). At that time, Australia was probably connected with Papua-New Guinea, and had many more rivers and forests in contrast to the desert that it is today.

By 1965, the population of "Pure Aboriginals" was little more than 40,000 people. They were literally massacred by the colonizers and expelled from their land, especially from productive land. They were pushed to the North of the country, where temperatures reach 50 degree Celsius in very wet or extremely dry areas. The Aborigines are extremely spiritual people and by 1770 they were so primitive that they didn't know what metal was. Most instruments and artefacts were made from wood, rock or bones. The boomerang itself was primarily a toy used to entertain the villagers, only later being used as a hunting and war device.
Note: It is very difficult today in Australia to find someone who knows how to throw a Boomerang, despite the fact that they are sold in every souvenir shop!

By 1806, racism from colonizers and soldiers reached a very high point. Not only were sacred Aboriginal places violated and desecrated, the Aboriginals themselves became hunted like kangaroos for pleasure and fun, like trophy prizes. The soldiers used to visit Aboriginal villages offering gifts, while the real purpose of the visit was to contaminate the village water supply with arsenic. Whole communities including children, elderly, women and men were removed by arsenic poisoning. Rum, initially imported from England, was freely offered to Villagers. The introduction of rum made many villagers drunk for a whole week until death arrived from alcoholic comas. The English soldiers took advantage of this stage of alcoholism to create wars between friendly villages, leaving them to kill each other. It was a massacre.

Later, the Aborigines were recruited to work on cattle farms. Payment was ridiculous low, compared to a white mans wage. To justify this act, the farmers made allegations that the Aborigines had no feelings with horses (which was true due to the fact that they were nomads and used to travel by foot). Secondly, the Aboriginals spiritual life style was totally connected with the environment. In reality, the Aborigines didn't understand why they had to raise horses and sheep when the sea and nature provided everything necessary for living. They were considered lazy and insolent. But, they worked for less than 2 pounds per week as payment, while the white man never worked for less than 9 pounds. Also, because of their dark skin, the Aborigines were able to work for long period of time under the hot sun, while the whites used to get sunburned very quickly.

Note: Many Australian farms today use helicopters or all terrain vehicles to deal with the cattle. Some farms have such big properties, that from the gate to the main house, it can take 45 minutes to cover the distance, traveling in a car at 140 km per hour.

After Australia gained independence from England, (but still with a very strong racial discrimination against anyone not descendent from the British) something much worse happened to the Aborigines. It is called "The lost Generation"; where Aboriginal children were kidnapped never to be seen again by their families. The government target was to physiologically break any interference from Aboriginal people on the "white" politics. At the time John Howard was the Australian Prime Minister, he acknowledged the fact, but refused to officially say sorry to the Aboriginal people. Kevin Ruud the new prime minister elected in 2007 said he will. Many believe that this is why Aboriginals receive very high financial compensation from the Australian government in various forms.

[StarmanSkye]

breezy quipped: "For which other victim groups was a "final solution," developed? None. They can memorialize their losses any way they want. Trying to include them in "the Holocaust," is a cheesy ideological trick which attempts to minimize the unique situation encountered by the Jews in that time period. So no, it isn't Elie Wiesel who stole anything but revisionists and anyone who plays that banal game."

Congrats on a truly epic piece of execrable idiocy.
Besides the atrocious record of planned, coordinated extermination of Native Americans, Indigenous Australians and Irish poor, there are numerous other incidents that do not require the language of 'final solution' for a moderately engaged intellect to note the identical intent and consequence. Such as occurred against Cambodians, Rwandans, Armenians and many, many others. This ideologicaly-motivated fixated idealization of Jewish suffering as unique is grossly misleading, inaccurate, extremely prejudicial, exploitive, manipulative, divisive, cheap and above all sick.

[Nordic]

Only a racist would believe that the genocide against his own people was the only one that "counts".

[Bruce Dazzling]

breezy quipped: "For which other victim groups was a "final solution," developed? None. They can memorialize their losses any way they want. Trying to include them in "the Holocaust," is a cheesy ideological trick which attempts to minimize the unique situation encountered by the Jews in that time period. So no, it isn't Elie Wiesel who stole anything but revisionists and anyone who plays that banal game."

Congrats on a truly epic piece of execrable idiocy.
Besides the atrocious record of planned, coordinated extermination of Native Americans, Indigenous Australians and Irish poor, there are numerous other incidents that do not require the language of 'final solution' for a moderately engaged intellect to note the identical intent and consequence. Such as occurred against Cambodians, Rwandans, Armenians and many, many others. This ideologicaly-motivated fixated idealization of Jewish suffering as unique is grossly misleading, inaccurate, extremely prejudicial, exploitive, manipulative, divisive, cheap and above all sick.

Perfect.

[Simulist]

StarmanSkye, you're exactly right.

[annie aronburg]

But I won't post something like this. Why? Because I work in the entertainment business.

It would be stupid of me to do so.
...

But even my seemingly "left-wing" Jewish friends and contacts? I don't know how that would go over.

Weird, huh?

What's weird is that you don't know what your friends think about an issue that is obviously very important to you.

You're out of work anyways, why not let your freak flag fly?

[sunny]

breezy quipped: "For which other victim groups was a "final solution," developed? None. They can memorialize their losses any way they want. Trying to include them in "the Holocaust," is a cheesy ideological trick which attempts to minimize the unique situation encountered by the Jews in that time period. So no, it isn't Elie Wiesel who stole anything but revisionists and anyone who plays that banal game."

Congrats on a truly epic piece of execrable idiocy.
Besides the atrocious record of planned, coordinated extermination of Native Americans, Indigenous Australians and Irish poor, there are numerous other incidents that do not require the language of 'final solution' for a moderately engaged intellect to note the identical intent and consequence. Such as occurred against Cambodians, Rwandans, Armenians and many, many others. This ideologicaly-motivated fixated idealization of Jewish suffering as unique is grossly misleading, inaccurate, extremely prejudicial, exploitive, manipulative, divisive, cheap and above all sick.

And it was just an accident when the Nazi's killed the gays, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other undesirables.

[norton ash]

Annie, isn't encouraging (career) suicide over the web a crime? Only half-joking re your advice to Nordic.

[Nordic]

You're out of work anyways, why not let your freak flag fly?

It's crossed my mind.

I tend to suffer from a malady in my real life where, when I get a little angry about something, I can let the words fly. People think I'm this big gentle sweet guy, and then when I get angry the verbal artillery can start coming out of my mouth. It never goes over very well. People are uncomfortable with it.

I'm trying to learn to count to ten and say nothing, rather than going the other direction.

In the long run, who really gives a shit what I think? Nobody.

[seemslikeadream]

Leftists to Elie Wiesel: Occupied Jerusalem can't be holy

By Akiva Eldar, Haaretz Correspondent


Jerusalem must be shared by both Israelis and Palestinians, a leftist activist group said Thursday, in response to Nobel Prize laureate Elie Wiesel's ad in the Washington Post last week.

"For me, the Jew that I am, Jerusalem is above politics," Wiesel wrote in the ad, titled "For Jerusalem." To this, the group responded by saying that as long as the city remains occupied it cannot be holy.
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"It is mentioned more than six hundred times in Scripture - and not a single time in the Koran...the first song I heard was my mother's lullaby about and for Jerusalem," Wiesel had written.


Wiesel also wrote that Jews, Christians and Muslims were able to build their homes anywhere in Jerusalem and that only under Israeli sovereignty had freedom of worship for all religions been assured in the city.

"The anguish over Jerusalem is not about real estate but about memory," he wrote.

In the open letter made public Thursday, activists in the Just Jerusalem group, which includes Israel Prize laureates Avishai Margalit, Zeev Sternhell as well as former Knesset Speaker Avraham Burg, said they wanted to express their "frustration, even outrage" at Wiesel's letter, saying that "Jerusalem must be shared by the people of the two nations residing in it."

"Only a shared city will live up to the prophet's vision: Zion shall be redeemed with justice," the letter said.

The letter's signatories said that their "Jerusalem is concrete, its hills covered with limestone houses and pine trees; its streets lined with synagogues, mosques and churches." They added that that Wiesel's Jerusalem, on the other hand, was "an ideal, an object of prayers and a bearer of the collective memory of a people whose members actually bear many individual memories."

"Our Jerusalem is populated with people, young and old, women and men, who wish their city to be a symbol of dignity - not of hubris, inequality and discrimination. You speak of the celestial Jerusalem; we live in the earthly one," the letter said.

The letter's signatories also said that the reason they found Wiesel's ad so troubling wasn't only "because it is replete with factual errors and false representations, but because it upholds an attachment to some other-worldly city which purports to supersede the interests of those who live in the this-worldly one."

"For every Jew, you say, a visit to Jerusalem is a homecoming, yet it is our commitment that makes your homecoming possible. We prefer the hardship of realizing citizenship in this city to the convenience of merely yearning for it," the letter said.

Jerusalem, the letter continued, was not, as Wiesel claimed in his ad, above politics since "contemporary Jerusalem was created by a political decision and politics alone keeps it formally unified."

"Second, your attempt to keep Jerusalem above politics means divesting us of a future. For being above politics is being devoid of the power to shape the reality of one's life," letter writers continued.

The signatories culminated their response by appealing Wiesel to visit Jerusalem for himself, thus seeing "with your own eyes the catastrophic effects of the frenzy of construction."

"You will witness that, contrary to some media reports, Arabs are not allowed to build their homes anywhere in Jerusalem. You discover see the gross inequality in allocation of municipal resources and services between east and west," the writers said.

"We will take you to Sheikh Jarrah, where Palestinian families are being evicted from their homes to make room for a new Jewish neighborhood, and to Silwan, where dozens of houses face demolition because of the Jerusalem Municipality?s refusal to issue building permits to Palestinians."

The letter culminated by reiterating the chant used by Sheikh Jarrah activists in their weekly rallies: "Nothing can be holy in an occupied city!"

[Nordic]

Hey, I was born a Christian, and some of my earliest memories were of my mother singing "OH little child of Bethlehem" on Christmas, so does that mean I can go build a house in Bethlehem? C'mon, where's my pony?