Giffords shooting

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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:10 am

The Consul wrote:
Sepka wrote:It interests me that after eight pages, no-one has commented on his middle name being 'Lee'. Lee is one of the names that's traditionally over-represented among American mass and serial murderers, the other one being Wayne.

It's interesting (to me, at any rate) as well that the killings took place at a store called 'Safeway'.

Also, for what it's worth, the first newsflash I saw about it (and I think it may have been the first report on the web) was from KGUN Tucson.


...and Tucson derives from the Pima word shookson... .the wi:gita involves a hero murdered by public consent... she was shot in the safeway of the Tuscano shopping center. Tuscany was the home of Amerigo Vespucci, for whom the not so United States are named. Tuscany was also the ceneter of the first major civilization created by the Etruscans who's writing we know less about than the pol po vu.


Wait a minute are you saying that the city of Tuscon derives from the shookson/Cuk Ṣon story cycle of the Pima people that involves a hero murdered by public consent?

I HAVE to see a link to that.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Avalon » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:50 am

My assumption about the use of middle names of famous alleged or convicted killers is that it makes it less likely that ordinary people with the same first and last name will get the crap beaten out of them or face other retribution.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby justdrew » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:24 am

mentioned in passing earlier, but this article is a good read...
http://gawker.com/5729241/why-was-jared-loughner-obsessed-with-grammar
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Occult Means Hidden » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:07 am

8bitagent wrote:[
The media is really playing up the "tragedy bookends" angle regarding the young girl. Does anyone know if this girl's birth was in the media in 2001, or just made famous on the memorial book cover?
1/8/11, 1+8=9, 11



I don't find much method to that. For your consideration: Elsewhere on Earth it was 01/09/2011 when this occurred. The simmering period following came on this date. 09/11/2001 was her birthday. She was more than a coincident birth, she was even a documented face of zeitgeist. Her life certainly was a symbol of this cycle. I would be interested where the terminator - the literal division between dark and light - was on Earth while this occurred. A crossing into the 01/09/11. Speaking of zeitgeist, I also feel it an analogy of America as others commented. The center of America is dying: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/us_nm/us_midwest_population
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:16 am

Occult Means Hidden wrote:
8bitagent wrote:[
The media is really playing up the "tragedy bookends" angle regarding the young girl. Does anyone know if this girl's birth was in the media in 2001, or just made famous on the memorial book cover?
1/8/11, 1+8=9, 11



I don't find much method to that. For your consideration: Elsewhere on Earth it was 01/09/2011 when this occurred. The simmering period following came on this date. 09/11/2001 was her birthday. She was more than a coincident birth, she was even a documented face of zeitgeist. Her life certainly was a symbol of this cycle. I would be interested where the terminator - the literal division between dark and light - was on Earth while this occurred. A crossing into the 01/09/11. Speaking of zeitgeist, I also feel it an analogy of America as others commented. The center of America is dying: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/us_nm/us_midwest_population



That definitely strikes me as eerie and tragic, if not wholeheartedly goosebump raising. Just the whole media focus on the "tragedy bookend" angle. The symbolism of NASA's final shuttle flight as well, a lot of symbolism that will resonate with people. But it's immensely sad that this kid was born into a world of ugliness and was taken out in that cycle. Interesting note on the date and the division.

Im sure youll remember when Yankee star pitcher Cory Lidle crashed his plane into the upper floors of a New York high rise on October 11th 2006, evoking images of 9/11...the apartment he crashed into, being that of the woman who famously was nearly killed and suffered grave injuries when a Macy's Thanksgiving day parade Cat and the Hat balloon knocked a lamppost into her head 9 years previously:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_Y ... e_building

Or the December 5th 2007 shooting rampage of an Omaha(Omaha being a major point of interest in deep state research) mall by 19 year old Robert Dawkins, just as Bush was wrapping up a speech a few miles away. Around the same time a young blonde reporter stopped Dick Cheney at a Stuttgart Arkansas ammo supply store in a chance encounter for what she thought was a scoop report. A year later, around the time she cameo'd in Oliver Stone's W she was found dead

The symbolism of falling birds and mass animal die-offs worldwide with this sync points to in my view a noted time period ending and something fierce beginning.

edit: It's now fairly clear as to where this messed up kid got his brand of tying/spelling and crazy line of thinking:
http://gawker.com/5729241/why-was-jared ... th-grammar

Besides the likely obsession Loughner had with ":David-Wynn: Miller"'s rambling website, it seems like he developed an obsession with Giffords back in 2007.

Here's what a commenter posted on Copycat Effect's blog:

Jared in Hebrew = YRD. I looked in a Hebrew dictionary for its meaning which is 'descend'.

The next word in the dictionary is YRH which inexplicably means 'to shoot',while underneath is given a phrase YRH MHMVThN - 'to shoot indiscriminately'.

2 words further is the word YRVQ which means 'green'.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogI ... 8375295864
Last edited by 8bitagent on Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:17 am

OMH Historically America seems to swing from one form of chaos to the next...

I think this is just the same cycle.

I heard the shooter had met Gillford before is that true?
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:20 am

Joe Hillshoist wrote:OMH Historically America seems to swing from one form of chaos to the next...

I think this is just the same cycle.

I heard the shooter had met Gillford before is that true?


That's what they say. Sometime in 2007.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:45 am

This is profoundly upsetting. So much pain, shock and horror being experienced by so many innocents. My heart aches.

82, you'd be amazed at what a parent can do to put aside their grief. Some I know were incapable of bearing the pain of such a similar sudden traumatic loss of their child and sought out whatever distraction they could find, just to distance them from the reality of what had occurred. Some just lost it completely, overcome by grief and unable to function. You can only imagine. I hope that's as close to a situation as this you or anyone else ever comes.

I don't watch tv and cannot view videos online, so I listen to the radio. I heard the interviews and Christina's father was choked up as he spoke, as was her mom. Hearing him as he tried his best to be strong, trying his best not to lose it, knowing as best one could his pain, brought me to tears.

To sit at home and do nothing but grieve is not something I believe a father can do because he wants to do something, anything to help his child, even knowing they are no more. Dads are supposed to be strong. Distraction helped to remove himself, even if only momentarily, from confronting fully the reality of his loss. He will probably get lost in his grief after he's taken care of the business he needs to deal with now, after buries his child.

There are no words of comfort that can ease their pain. A simple hug would be better appreciated than any words offered kindly as comfort. You must remember too, that there were probably several reporters outside their home, waiting, jostleing to be first to pounce and invade their most private of moments. Much better that you take control of the situation, do an interview, if only to regain your privacy.

I wasn't able to let go and grieve until October, after I had packed the last of my son's possessions from his Colorado home. My son was killed in the last week of March.

There was just to much to do and too many to care for before that moment when I pulled away with the truck loaded. Only then, knowing I had done all that was necessary to be done, could I allow myself to begin actively grieving in earnest. I pulled the truck over and cried and cried.

What is different between my case and this is that the murderer in my case had the decency to kill himself. This saved me from years of actively hating him. Through the arraignment; through the trial; through the sentencing; through the parole board hearings if he wasn't executed and through his execution, had he been so sentenced. I'm afraid these parents will suffer from their hatred, making healing much more difficult. Every day they think about their child, and they will every single day of their life, they will also think of him. This is inevitable.

I pray they are spared from further pain, but I know too, there will still be more to come most unexpectedly. Exactly four months to the day after my son and five of his friends were killed I received my first communication from the murderers mother, a sympathy card that read "every day I will prey for you."

There will be healing of a sort, though I really cannot relate to an experience wherein the killer goes on living. I, like you, can only imagine.

When I speak to graduate level restorative justice classes I talk about grief, how selfish it is because it cannot be shared; it is yours alone, because your relationship with your child is unique. Unspoken love gives some comfort, but no one, not even the child's mother can understand your grief as you experience it, as you cannot understand hers because her relationship with her child is unique as well.

I speak of 'healing' as being something akin to what I imagine an amputee experiences: The moment and pain of the traumatic loss; the scabbing over of the wound and enduring the continual pain while new tissue grows and finally, long after the wound has healed and tissue has grown and you pain has subsided, you bump into something with your stump and the pain from this immediately brings you most suddenly back to the moment of of your traumatic loss. I near as I can tell, that's the best it gets.

For this reason it is always best not to project your feelings about how someone should or should not feel, especially when it concerns the death of their child.

That's enough of that.

I was listening to Coast2Coast last night and Fox News reported only that the (accused) assailant had a copy of Marx's Communist Manifesto. Anything at anytime, it seems, Fox will broadcast to further their cause to corrupt the truth by deflecting attention away from the 'right' to the 'Evil' left.

One of the first reports I heard was that the bullet entered Giford's head from the left, passed through her brain and exited the right side of her head, causing damage to both hemispheres. This is similar to the wound my son suffered while sleeping, though in his case the bullet exited his neck, killing him instantly. But now I just heard on NPR that the bullet only passed through the left side of her brain before exiting.

This is a very sad occasion and several people who were there who were not physically injured were psychologically damaged and will carry emotional scars forever.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:54 am

82_28 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist wrote:OMH Historically America seems to swing from one form of chaos to the next...

I think this is just the same cycle.

I heard the shooter had met Gillford before is that true?


That's what they say. Sometime in 2007.


Yeah i heard that. I am wondering about the youtube thing too.

Maybe he was obsessed with her for some reason ...
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby 82_28 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:02 am

Thanks, Iamwhoiam. Let it be known I was not dogging on the parents at all. The whole set up was eerie just as the whole damn thing is. There are lots of speculative routes to be taken in this and, truth be known, the situation that led to the loss of your son -- myself and others did all kinds of speculating back when it happened -- of course, not knowing you now, as I now do. Not at all to be callous to the survivors, but to ask questions as to how shit like this happens at all and most of all, the method and PR the authorities utilize in order to "close" the case.

And just to clear it up, his mom did not send you a card that said "prey" rather than "pray" did she?
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby seemslikeadream » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:54 am

Image

How the Right's Rhetoric Fueled the Actions of Arizona's Mass Murderer
It's too soon to say what motivated the man apprehended for the shooting. But the Tea Party culture of political intimidation affirmed his violent impulses.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby hava1 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:05 am

From the Israeli msm perspective, this is a crazy person shootout. No commentary.

Some backtalkers view it as indicative of antisemitism rising.

the girl's birthday is chilling, I met one boy born that day, and his mother was MK victim, that WAS eerie.

These numerical and MK connections do bear resemblence to nazi germany, when dark forces of esotric significance 9as well as political) came to dominance.

But luckily, given the awareness...it will be averted.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:28 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_ ... _gunman_11

TUCSON, Ariz. – At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"

Loughner was angry about her response — she read the question and had nothing to say.

"He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy," one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday.

Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonlinear and obsessed with how words create reality.

The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: That of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.

"If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem," the 22-year-old wrote Dec. 15, part of a wide-ranging screed that was posted in video form and ended with this: "What's government if words don't have meaning?"

On Sunday, Loughner was charged with the shootings a day earlier at a political event outside a Tucson supermarket. Aside from the six killed, 14 people were wounded. Doctors were optimistic about Giffords' chances for survival.

Loughner had at least one other contact with Giffords. Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at Loughner's home and seized a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007 — the same kind of event where officials say Loughner opened fire Saturday.

Other evidence seized from his home included an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be Loughner's signature.

His high school friends said they fell out of touch with Loughner and last spoke to him around March, when one of them was going to set up some bottles in the desert for target practice and Loughner suggested he might come along. It was unusual — Loughner hadn't expressed an interest in guns before — and his increasingly confrontational behavior was pushing them apart. He would send nonsensical text messages, but also break off contact for weeks on end.

"We just started getting sketched out about him," the friend said. It was the first time he'd felt that way.

Around the same time, Loughner's behavior also began to worry officials at Pima Community College, where Loughner began attending classes in 2005, the school said in a release.

Between February and September, Loughner "had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions," the statement said. He was suspended in September 2010 after college police discovered a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal according to the U.S. Constitution. He withdrew voluntarily the following month, and was told he could return only if he met certain conditions, including getting a mental health professional to agree that his presence on campus did not present a danger, the school said.

To his friends, it had been a gradual alienation.

The Loughner they met when he was a freshman at Mountain View High School may have been socially awkward, but he was generally happy and fun to be around. The crew smoked marijuana everyday, and when they weren't going to concerts or watching movies they talked about the meaning of life and dabbled in conspiracy theories.

Mistrust of government was his defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

On his YouTube page, he listed among his favorite books "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World" — two novels about how authorities control the masses. Other books he listed in the wide-ranging list included "Mein Kampf," "The Communist Manifesto," "Peter Pan" and Aesop's Fables.

Over time, Loughner became increasingly engrossed in his own thoughts — what one of the friends described as a "nihilistic rut."

Loughner, an ardent atheist, began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the monotony of modern life.

"He didn't want people to wake up and do the same thing every day. He wanted more chaos, he wanted less regularity," one friend said.

The friend added that Loughner believed government was trying to get people to accept their meaningless lives so that they would stop dreaming — literally.

He told anyone who would listen that the world we see does not exist, that words have no meaning — and that the only way to derive meaning was during sleep.

Loughner began obsessing about a practice called lucid dreaming, in which people try to actively control their dreams. He kept a detailed journal about what he saw while asleep, and tried to get the friends involved.

Several people who knew Loughner at community college said he did not seem especially political, but was socially awkward. He laughed at the wrong things, made inappropriate comments. Most students sat away from him in class.

"He made a lot of the people really uncomfortable, especially the girls in the class," said Steven Cates, who attended an advanced poetry writing class with Loughner at Pima Community College last spring. Though he struck up a superficial friendship with Loughner, he said a group of other students went to the teacher to complain about Loughner at one point.

Another poetry student, Don Coorough, said Loughner read a "kind of a bland" poem about going to the gym in wild "poetry slam" style — "grabbing his crotch and jumping around the room."

When other students read their poems, meanwhile, Coorough said Loughner "would laugh at things that you wouldn't laugh at." After one woman read a poem about abortion, "he was turning all shades of red and laughing," and said, "Wow, she's just like a terrorist, she killed a baby," Coorough said.

"He appeared to be to me an emotional cripple or an emotional child," Coorough said. "He lacked compassion, he lacked understanding and he lacked an ability to connect."

Cates said Loughner "didn't have the social intelligence, but he definitely had the academic intelligence."

"He was very into the knowledge aspect of school. He was really into his philosophy classes and he was really into logic and English. And he would get frustrated by the dumbed-down words people used in class," Cates said.

Loughner expressed his interest in grammar and logic on the Internet as he made bizarre claims — such as that the Mars rover and the space shuttle missions were faked.

He frequently used "if-then" constructions in making nonsensical arguments. For instance: "If the living space is able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F then the human body is alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. The human body isn't alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. Thus, the living space isn't able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F."

Loughner also said in one video that government is "implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." He said described America's laws as "treasonous," said the "every human who's mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency," and that "if the property owners and government officials are no longer in ownership of their land and laws from a revolution then the revolutionary's from the revolution are in control of the land and laws."

Loughner described himself as a U.S. military recruit in the video, but the Army released a statement indicating Loughner was not accepted.

"He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected," it said.

Loughner tried to enlist because it was one way of getting out of the "T-Loc" life — kicking around as a Tucson local — one of the friends said.

In October 2007, Loughner was cited in Pima County for possession of drug paraphernalia, which was dismissed after he completed a diversion program, according to online records.

A year later he was charged with an unknown "local charge" in Marana near Tucson. That charge was also dismissed following the completion of a diversion program in March 2009, the Daily Star reported.

"He has kind of a troubled past, I can tell you that," Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:34 am

I understand, 82. I still and probably will always have questions unanswered about my son's killer, whether my son was assassinated by a MK assassin because of some future role he was to play ala Terminator or whether he was killed as retribution for my political activities or just simply killed by a deranged young man because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't know. But there still is lots of mystery involved in that and consequential events.

I really only wanted to express my sympathies for all who've been impacted by this event, but felt I should say a bit more after reading your exchange with Wombat.

While it's a difficult concept for most to grasp, you really are the only one in control of your emotions and reactions to others. (That may not be true of everyone, tho, like MK victims, for example) "You make me feel like puking" (not you, just another example) or "you're really pissing me off" are really silly. You'll get sick if you allow yourself to become nauseated by someone's suggestion. Martial arts training, Tai Chi or mediation can help you get in touch with your emotions. I suppose anger management classes teach coping skills that help one keep their emotions from getting the better of them, but I have no experience with this.

I also know surviving victims of this assault will probably be searching the web for information, especially relatives living far from Tuscon. I can tell you first hand that reading things people write about their loved ones, people who they know nothing at all about, can be very painful.

Responding to comments posted on Jeff's blog about my son and his friends is what prompted my first posting there. Another year or so passed before I decided to explore the boards. I believe I haven't really posted much of anything anywhere on the web besides on this General Discussion Board, though I had posted under my own name extensively on a local, now defunct political blog, Democracy In Albany. It's still up, but the owner has given it up and no longer posts there.

On edit: Yes, 82, she really did (I hope) misspell 'pray' as 'prey' in her sympathy card to me.
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Re: Giffords shooting

Postby Canadian_watcher » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:16 am

It is being reported that he had built a shrine in his back yard. Pics & info here:

ny daily news - shrine in backyard
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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