Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

[freemason9]

information + communication = democracy

[AhabsOtherLeg]

information + communication = democracy

People should also be included in the equation. They are kind of essential.

[Plutonia]

Really hard to read what is going on. The people looking to the army to "save" them from Mubarak? And that's good how? Mubarak refusing to leave because it could jeopardize his (and sons) fortunes? Marine on their way? Bleh.


Alice are you aware of Open Government tools?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_governance
http://metagovernment.org/wiki/Active_projects
http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.opengovp.org/
Us Now: film about open gov projects- view online: http://watch.usnowfilm.com/

Could they be deployed now? Show a democracy emerging asap?

And secure that $$$!

Here's a start - but more is needed, amiright?:

Egypt charges ex-ministers, businessman with graft

CAIRO | Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:44pm EST

CAIRO Feb 10 (Reuters) - Egyptian prosecutors filed formal charges on Thursday against three former ministers and a prominent businessman of abusing their position to enrich themselves and stealing public money, state TV said. Legal measures began against former tourism minister Zuhair Garana, former trade and industry minister Rachid Mohamed Rachid, former tourism minister Ahmed al-Maghrabi and Ahmed Ezz, owner of Ezz Steel, after an uprising against President Hosni Mubarak's rule erupted on Jan. 25. The ministers lost their jobs when Mubarak sacked his cabinet on Jan. 29. They were intended as concessions to a public partly seen as angry over corruption within the ruling elite. Ezz was a senior figure in the ruling National Democratic Party, which was purged of its leadership last week. As a member of parliament, he has enjoyed immunity from prosecution.

Authorities banned all four, plus former interior minister Habib el-Adli, from travel while investigations were under way and froze their bank accounts.

Rachid has denied wrongdoing. Ezz Steel said in statement this week that Ezz strongly denied the accusations levelled at him and the investigation was a personal matter that would not affect the operations of the company.

The other men have yet to comment.

Adli appeared before military prosecutors this week and may face charges of withdrawing security forces from the streets during the uprising, ordering live fire on protesters and releasing prisoners from jail.

After battling massive protests around the country on Jan. 28, security forces suddenly disappeared from the streets of Egypt. Several days of looting and lawlessness followed and many prisoners escaped prison.

State television said Garana was accused of giving state land to a well-known tourist company as an incentive for it investing in his own firm, Garana Tourism, which was facing financial difficulties.

State news agency MENA said Ezz was accused of illegally taking control of state-owned al-Dekheila Steel which then supplied his Ezz Steel firm with steel at reduced prices, costing al-Dekheila heavy losses. (Reporting by Andrew Hammond; editing by Matthew Jones)

Help in seizing assets?:

Statement issued by The Faculty of Law at Cairo University

Issued from the discussion forum held on 7/2/2011 around legal and constitutional solutions to meet the needs of the Peoples revolution

On Monday the 7th of February 2011 the professors of the faculty of law at Cairo university met and after many fruitful discussions and thorough analysis of the parameters of constitutional thought and what is best for our country in order for it to correspond with the great leap & the revolution of the Youth of the Nation which has both been welcomed and backed by many communities within the nation , presented to the nation from a pure conscience and in reaction to the new developments that have affected the entire nation's sentiments . Presented here to the great Egyptian nation are the results which the forum has reached in regards to what must be done for the good of the nation at this historical juncture in our beloved country
The forum has reached the following conclusions:

Firstly : To completely support and back The revolution of the 25th of January which was sparked by the pure and uncorrupted Youth of Egypt in which all the diverse communities of Egypt joined to demand freedom , democracy and the sovereignty of the law , the achievement of social justice and calling to account the corrupt and those who have hindered the fate of this nation and honoring the blood of the martyrs which was spilt in the cause of the nations freedom and upholding the dignity of the citizen.

Secondly – Withdrawing all legitimacy from the current regime

Thirdly – Calling upon the President of the Republic to comply with the will of the nation as expressed by the public

Fourth - The Necessity of the instant dissolution of both Parliament and the Shura Council due to the impossibility of their meeting as a result of final sentences issued from the High Constitutional court which nullify the results of the elections in many constituencies

Fifth- A call for the creation of a founding committee devoted to the creation of a new constitution that is in accordance with the current phase, with the condition that all political ideologies are represented in this committee as well as civil society organizations and all Egyptian communities

Sixth – The delegation of all presidential powers to the vice president, as permitted by Articles 82 and 139 of the constitution in accordance with their correct interpretation

Seventh – The expansion of the current structure of the government in order for it to be an interim government dedicated to the nations recovery

Eighth- The issuance of decrees from the republic which would create laws that launch the right to create political parties and allowing citizens the rights of election and nomination for public office

Ninth- The swift restructuring of the state authorities in accordance with the new constitution

Tenth – The immediate termination of the enforcement of the Emergency law

Signed on behalf of the attendees
Dr Ahmed Awad Belal
Dean of the Faculty of Law

Can Mubarak simply be arrested? Who could do it? The army?

[freemason9]

information + communication = democracy

People should also be included in the equation. They are kind of essential.

inferred in the communication aspect

[23]

I'm a little befuddled by some Egyptians' faith in their military.

When I read an article like the one below, I can't help but feel that this is not how a sympathetic military acts.

To the the contrary, my sixth sense tells me that they may be a trojan horse in the current equation. Appearing to be sympathetic to the revolutionaries, but waiting for the right time to come out and strike.



My nose for trojan horses isn't infallible. But it's currently smelling one in the Egyptian military.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 79662.html
Egyptian army 'torturing' prisoners
Human rights groups allege that pro-democracy protesters have been detained or tortured in an "organised campaign".

The Egyptian military has been secretly detaining and torturing those it suspects of being involved in pro-democracy protests, according to testimony gathered by the British newspaper the Guardian.

The newspaper, quoting human rights agencies, put the number of people detained at "hundreds, possibly thousands," since protests against Hosni Mubarak, the Egyptian president, began on January 25.

While the military has said it is playing a neutral role in the political unrest, the newspaper quoted human rights campaigners as saying this was no longer the case, accusing the army of being involved in an organised campaign of disappearances, torture and intimidation.

Egyptians have long associated such crimes with the country's much-feared intelligence and security services, but not with the army.

"Their range is very wide, from people who were at the protests or detained for breaking curfew to those who talked back at an army officer or were handed over to the army for looking suspicious or for looking like foreigners even if they were not," Hossam Bahgat, director of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, told the Guardian.

"It's unusual and to the best of our knowledge it's also unprecedented for the army to be doing this."

The country's army has denied the charges of illegal detention or torture.

"The armed forces denies any abuse of protesters. The armed forces sticks to the principle of protecting peaceful protesters and it has never, nor will it ever, fire at protesters," an armed forces source told Reuters.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, Safwat El Zayat, a retired general in the Egyptian military, categorically denied the allegations made in the Guardian report, saying that the report was "aimed at damaging the reputation of the army, which always stands by the people and not the regime".

'Foreign enemies'

The report said that the detained included human rights activists, lawyers and journalists, and that human rights groups have "documented the use of electric shocks on some of those held by the army".

The newspaper quoted a man who said he was detained by the army while on his way to Tahrir Square, the focal point of protests in Cairo, with medical supplies.

The man said he was accused of working with "foreign enemies", beaten and then hauled to an army post, where his hands were tied behind his back.

In addition to hitting him, the soldiers also allegedly threatened him with rape.

Bahgat told the Guardian that it appears from the testimony of those who have been released that the military is conducting a campaign to try and break the protests.

"I think it's become pretty obvious by now that the military is not a neutral party," Heba Morayef, a researcher with Human Rights Watch (HRW) in Cairo, told the newspaper.

"The military doesn't want and doesn't believe in the protests and this is even at the lower level, based on the interrogations."

HRW says it has documented 119 cases of civilians being arrested by the military, but believes the actual number is much higher, as the army does not acknowledge the detentions.

The organisation told the Reuters news agency that it had documented at least five cases of torture, while one released detainee said he had seen at least 12 people given "electric shocks" on February 1.

'Aggresive manner'

Ayman Mohyeldin, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Cairo who was held by the military for several hours on February 6th, also witnessed scenes of violence during his detention.

Mohyeldin was held by the military while trying to enter Tahrir Square when he told soldiers at a checkpost that he was a journalist.

They questioned him regarding why he was there, and then, having tied his hands with plastic handcuffs, took him to a make-shift army post where he was interrogated and his equipment confiscated.

"I can tell you from what I saw and what I heard that a lot of [the detained] were beaten up, the military was dealing with them in a very aggresive manner," Mohyeldin said.

"They were slapped, they were kicked. The military was trying to essentially subdue them.

"In essence the military was dealing with these people as prisoners of war. These were individuals who were trying to plead for their safety, for their innocence.

"Many of them were crying, saying that they were simply just caught up in the wrong moment, but the military showed no mercy."

Mohyeldin said that some prisoners were quite badly beaten, while a soldier also used a taser gun to threaten prisoners. He said others showed evidence of having been whipped.

He said that prisoners at the post he was being held at were being treated aggresively by soldiers despite the fact that they were not being disobedient.

Mohyeldin also described how one protester, when initially detained, had claimed that he was an active member of the pro-democracy movement against Mubarak.

However, in just a few hours, the protester had broken down in tears and was willing to promise the soldiers that he would not return to Tahrir Square and that he was not really involved in protests.

All detainees who were released were made to sign a document that said that they would not attempt to return to Tahrir Square unless they obtained prior permission from the military.

[smiths]

The Egyptians are somehow led to believe he is going to resign

As the day has gone on, there's is an increasing feeling that Mubarak really is on the way out.
The mood is ecstatic.
There'll be celebrations throughout the night, and tomorrow it will all start again
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/fe ... k-suleiman

The US and the whole World apparently thinks the same

US and world wrongfooted by Mubarak as White House tries to keep up
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/fe ... arak-egypt

Even the director of the CIA thinks he'll resign

I got the same information you did, that there is a strong likelihood that Mubarak may step down this evening
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/10/1 ... esign.html

lupercal suggests

Panetta is probably speaking candidly and really doesn't have much more knowledge than any other schmo with a browser

The policy is confused and incoherent

there is, after the violence of last Wednesday and Thursday, a commitment to organic Egyptian democracy in some top quarters (notably the White House), and a commitment to a rapid technocratic transition in others (notably the Pentagon), and no capacity or mechanism to efficiently share information, forge a consensus across departments, and coordinate a message. The State Department, where I’m writing this, has the unfortunate task of representing that to the world.
http://blogs.forbes.com/mahaatal/2011/0 ... gy-bottom/

Maybe Frank Wisner, sent by Obama, was also surprised by Mubaraks staying on.
That is of course what he clearly said he wanted, but was ridiculed for the suggestion.

Obviously, Wisner's comment Saturday, in which he said he thought Mubarak should stay, was a whopper.
A terrible misjudgment and a surprising one on the part of a man with his reputation and 40 years of diplomatic experience.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ank-wisner

[AlicetheKurious]

Really hard to read what is going on. The people looking to the army to "save" them from Mubarak? And that's good how?
...
Can Mubarak simply be arrested? Who could do it? The army?

I was too crushed to be coherent yesterday, but you have to understand that the signs were absolutely unmistakable last night that it was "Game Over": first, only once before had the Egyptian people heard the words "Communication #1" from the Armed Forces, and that was in 1952 after the army coup against the foreign-dominated monarchy. Let me repeat: only once before. Communique #1, at around 5:00pm, specified that the army stood behind the people's demands and declared them legitimate.

Second, the Supreme Military Council only held an open meeting twice before in its history: once during the 1967 war and once during the 1973 war. The video of the meeting scanned all those present, clearly showing that neither Mubarak nor Suleiman was present.

Third, at 9:33pm, around an hour and a half before Mubarak's speech, we all received a message on our mobile phones from the Armed Forces:

The Supreme Council is currently meeting to study the situation and will issue an important statement shortly.

Fourth, a number of officers in uniform joined the protesters in Tahrir Square and in front of the Broadcast & Television Building, and one of them, a colonel, made one of the most fiery speeches ever, demanding that the army leadership "do their job" and defend the rights of the Egyptian people against the criminal regime.

All these signs pointed unmistakably to one thing: an army coup forcibly removing the Mubarak regime.

But then...nothing. No "Communique #2" which everybody was expecting after Mubarak's speech at 11:00pm, no peep from the army after Suleiman's speech shortly afterward. No "important statement". Nada, zip, zilch.

My fear is that the regime arrested (or worse) the leaders of the armed forces before they could move against Mubarak & Suleiman. I can't think of any other explanation for this bizarre silence after all the announcements that raised such high expectations.

If so, this would set the stage for an uprising within the army itself. Loyalists to the regime are a small but powerful minority at the highest levels of the armed forces, including of course the Republican Guard, and they have the full backing of Israel -- it would be naive and stupid to believe that Israel's steadfast support is not a major factor in the regime's stubborn refusal to back down.

But I don't know what he could do: right now the presidential palace is surrounded, the Broadcast & Television Building is surrounded, the parliament is surrounded, the cabinet headquarters are surrounded, and the crowds are only becoming bigger and more determined; enraged, yes, but still nonviolent.

Meanwhile, a massacre took place in the posh neighborhood of Maadi this morning. Police opened fire on unarmed demonstrators heading towards the residence of the Israeli ambassador, killing 11, including a number of children, and wounding dozens. No other details yet. The fucking Israeli ambassador isn't even fucking there -- he flew the coop weeks ago, after the Mossad spy cell was uncovered.

[justdrew]

[AlicetheKurious]

Israeli lawmaker Benjamin Ben-Eliezer — who spoke with the Egyptian president by phone on Thursday before his speech — described Mubarak as "different from what I heard on the news."

"He sounded very strong and defiant," Ben-Eliezer said. "He analyzed the situation properly and tried to predict the future of the Middle East." Link

[Plutonia]

...

I was too crushed to be coherent yesterday, but you have to understand that the signs were absolutely unmistakable last night that it was "Game Over": first, only once before had the Egyptian people heard the words "Communication #1" from the Armed Forces, and that was in 1952 after the army coup against the foreign-dominated monarchy. Let me repeat: only once before. Communique #1, at around 5:00pm, specified that the army stood behind the people's demands and declared them legitimate.

Second, the Supreme Military Council only held an open meeting twice before in its history: once during the 1967 war and once during the 1973 war. The video of the meeting scanned all those present, clearly showing that neither Mubarak nor Suleiman was present.

Third, at 9:33pm, around an hour and a half before Mubarak's speech, we all received a message on our mobile phones from the Armed Forces:

...

Do you think it was a set up to demoralize you guys? Or even all of us to - I felt it too way over here...

Or are they trying to push you all into acting violently? That could be used to justify the US Marines coming in, as necessary "peace-keepers".

Shit.

[anothershamus]

I don't know if you are getting it as well but I am getting bumped off Al Jazeera right now. I can get a little bit of feed then I am off. Firefox restarts and Safari got bumped as well. I don't know where to go? I know things are really heating up, it's dawn in Egypt and the people are fuckin' mad! Anyone got good links?

[DevilYouKnow]

Obama told him to step down, Wisner told him to stay on. Who represents the real power structures?

[Nordic]

Obama told him to step down, Wisner told him to stay on. Who represents the real power structures?

That's all just theater. Good cop/bad cop nonsense.

[smiths]

its not very effective good cop / bad cop when the cop who seems to be getting it wrong is the president

it just makes the president and his office look like they are not the real ... oh, wait a sec

its all Mubarak and Obama though in the media,
funny how it only takes one clownish man elevated to sufficient status in each country to obscure the workings of the entire international Mafia system

in a way Berlusconi is the most credible politician on the international stage, he barely bothers to conceal his depraved and sociopathic tendencies

[Nordic]

Caption contest: