Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution

[Kate]

Now See The 11 Countries At Risk Of Becoming The Next Egypt

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-next-revolution-after-egypt-2011-2?slop=1

Thanks for that, anothershamus.

Of course it's disgusting that the headline says "11 Countries AT RISK OF Becoming The Next Egypt."

Anyone not a greedhead, anyone with a hunger for justice for all, might have written "Now See The 11 Countries Whose Citizens HOPE TO BECOME The Next Egypt."

[slimmouse]

Now See The 11 Countries At Risk Of Becoming The Next Egypt

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-next-revolution-after-egypt-2011-2?slop=1

Thanks for that, anothershamus.

Of course it's disgusting that the headline says "11 Countries AT RISK OF Becoming The Next Egypt."

Anyone not a greedhead, anyone with a hunger for justice for all, might have written "Now See The 11 Countries Whose Citizens HOPE TO BECOME The Next Egypt."

Kindly pass this message on to Lupercal. For a while now, he seems to be singing, subconsciously I trust, from the oppressors hymnsheet

[bks]

Yes, now that there has been a military coup, things will get much better.

Fluid situation, DrV. Let's see what limits the military or security apparatus remnants try to impose on the process. Until then . . .?

What I'd like to know is why anyone who regarded Mubarak as illegitimate would respect his outgoing decision to install the military? On what authority? I think that argues in favor of a coup, which would not seem to be a good sign.

[Elvis]

Now See The 11 Countries At Risk Of Becoming The Next Egypt

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-next-revolution-after-egypt-2011-2?slop=1

"At risk"? You can sure tell where "business insider" is coming from. They helpfully let you know which investment funds you should keep a careful eye on.

It's an interesting list, some of it is more like a "wish list," including Venezuela. They call Venezuela's "style of government" an "authoritarian republic." Last time I checked, Venezuela was a presidential constitutional republic---the exact same "style" of government as the US.

Vietnam's "style of government" is given as "authoritarian capitalism"; after all that Vietnam War fuss, they're not even Communist any more? China is listed simply as "authoritarian."

"The next Egypt" hm... here's an interesting comparison:

Income inequality, Egypt vs US
Posted by Michael Tomasky Monday 31 January 2011

The protests in Egypt are about democracy first and foremost, but wouldn't you figure there's probably some element of economics in there? There usually is. And we know that there are many desperately poor people in Egypt. This Wikipedia page uses two rankings to show that the average per capita income in the country is just $6,367 (IMF numbers) or $6,200 (CIA World Fact Book).

The United States is around $47,000 in both, while the UK is around $35,00 in both. Qatar, Luxemborg, Norway and Singapore lead the way.

So it's dirt poor. But lo and behold, but some other measures things aren't as bad as they could be. From Think Progress:

According to the CIA World Fact Book, the U.S. is ranked as the 42nd most unequal country in the world, with a Gini Coefficient of 45.

In contrast:

– Tunisia is ranked the 62nd most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of 40.

– Yemen is ranked 76th most unequal, with a Gini Coefficient of 37.7.

– And Egypt is ranked as the 90th most unequal country, with a Gini Coefficient of around 34.4.

The Gini coefficient is used to measure inequality: the lower a country's score, the more equal it is. Obviously, there are many things about the U.S. economy that make it far preferable to that in Egypt, including lower poverty rates, higher incomes, significantly better infrastructure, and a much higher standard of living overall. But income inequality in the U.S. is the worst it has been since the 1920′s, which is a real problem.

Here's the chart [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/rawdata_2172.text]. The UK by the way ranks 92nd, so slightly less unequal than Egypt.

No I would not rather live there. It's just a dramatic way to highlight the terrible thing that has happened in the US. Our society is more unequal than at any time since 1920. It is not desirable or sustainable. And it makes America an awfully poor model for the developing world.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2011/jan/31/egypt-usa

[Kate]

Now See The 11 Countries At Risk Of Becoming The Next Egypt

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-next-revolution-after-egypt-2011-2?slop=1

Thanks for that, anothershamus.

Of course it's disgusting that the headline says "11 Countries AT RISK OF Becoming The Next Egypt."

Anyone not a greedhead, anyone with a hunger for justice for all, might have written "Now See The 11 Countries Whose Citizens HOPE TO BECOME The Next Egypt."

Kindly pass this message on to Lupercal. For a while now, he seems to be singing, subconsciously I trust, from the oppressors hymnsheet

I pray I never become so cynical as to sneer at the aspirations of a brave, determined community of oppressed people longing to be free.

[compared2what?]

HE'S GONE!!!!!!!

HE'S GONE!!!!!!!

I, for one, welcome our new Egyptian overlords.
_________________--

Alice, I honestly can't imagine a (realistically viable) turn in the tide of world events that I'd be any happier to have lived to see than this. May all blessings flow to every single person who has the integrity and courage to stand up and demand the rights that every single person deserves. Of course.

Although since I don't see how it would really hurt anyone, if you and yours got extra-blessed, I do plan on putting a codicil to that effect in the fine print. I mean, I like to think that I appreciate justice as much as the next woman and all that. But there are limits to everything.

This has been, like, the best blowback ever, if you ask me. So here's to the world making a habit of it. And here's to a better future for deserving peoples everywhere. Because for pretty much the first time in my life, I can kinda-sorta see how that could happen. I mean, you never know. It just might be worth looking into.

BIG, BIG LOVE AND MUCH, MUCH JOY TO YOU.

c2w

[Joe Hillshoist]

"This has been, like, the best blowback ever, if you ask me. So here's to the world making a habit of it. And here's to a better future for deserving peoples everywhere. Because for pretty much the first time in my life, I can kinda-sorta see how that could happen. I mean, you never know. It just might be worth looking into.

BIG, BIG LOVE AND MUCH, MUCH JOY TO YOU."

Right back at ya sis.

[JackRiddler]

Yes, now that there has been a military coup, things will get much better.

Fluid situation, DrV. Let's see what limits the military or security apparatus remnants try to impose on the process. Until then . . .?

What I'd like to know is why anyone who regarded Mubarak as illegitimate would respect his outgoing decision to install the military? On what authority? I think that argues in favor of a coup, which would not seem to be a good sign.

Of course it was a coup. By which I mean, it was not Mubarak's or Suleiman's decision but the military ousting both. I don't think anyone here isn't aware that it can go badly. The Egyptian army is an important part of the regime, rife with American connections and payoffs, and a history of torture. They control wide-ranging economic interests, there's corruption and enrichment. The officer class will want to defend their privileges.

However, do you see a coup plot? The people demanded a coup. Did the army want to take power, was there a willing dictator in the wings? Yesterday they still went along with keeping Mubarak and Suleiman. It looks like today the people forced their hand, confronting the command with the choice of either deposing Mubarak or staging a massacre and starting a civil war. I suspect when the full story comes out, we'll hear that Suleiman ordered a crackdown after Mubarak passed the operative baton to him yesterday, and the command balked.

Was there a better alternative for getting rid of Mubarak? Should Egypt have kept him, or Suleiman, who may have been even worse? I'd say no and no! Will things be better? Well, now there's a chance of it, as opposed to none. Should anyone deny the cry of a nation for their moment of freedom?

.

[alwyn]

this has been such an incredible thing to watch, and it is really amazing hearing from our friends in Egypt that they are OK, and things are moving along...(Yay Alice!) I hope and pray that this is an inspiration to good people everywhere...there is power in the people, and power in non-violent revolution...

and on another note, I hope the corepirate types are trembling in their jack boots...

[23]

I once read (can't recall the source at the moment) that it is the policy of the United States to not have diplomatic relations with governments that are installed by military coup.

If this is true, I suspect that our Government will be very reluctant to use the term military coup in its future communications re. Egypt.

[DrVolin]

I'll grant that it was beautiful theater. That last defiant speech, simultaneously focusing popular anger even more specifically on the person of Mubarak and reinforcing the expectation that his very departure equals victory; the dramatic, hurried, and apparently improvised message relayed by his vice-president and long-time head of military intel that power had passed to his long-time head of the military. One has trouble imagining a more orderly non-transition. Even the Western media have been suitably touched by the explosions of joy that symbolize the power of the people and signal a return to business as usual. But not to the extent that they forget to congratulate themselves, in appropriately hushed tones, for the role they played in protecting the masses by keeping the world's attention on the thugs. Yes, the People have today won a famous victory. An 82 year old man retired from public life in February instead of September, and his cabinet can now get down to the business of running a country made safe again for big money, secure in the knowledge that the main dissidents have given away their positions by prematurely opening fire on the regime's light cavalry screen. Many an aging dictator, or more likely their ministers, are updating their Continuity of Government powerpoint presentations tonight.

[compared2what?]

How to find property records for despots? Anyone?

Property transfer records are public, and they might even be searchable online for free in a (probably) limited way at either the County Clerk's website or maybe the CA Secretary of State's website. I'll check that for you in a moment and add links on edit, if any. Plus, you can always go down to the County Clerk's office and try the patience of whatever poor civil servant ends up processing your numerous requests to your heart's content if you have the time, obviously.

However. The far, far better way to go is via a LexisNexis(r) subscription that includes as much of their public records database as you can honorably search while staying on the right side of the boundaries imposed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley and Drivers' Privacy Protection Acts.

Especially when you don't have all that many known search terms in hand at the outset. I mean, he might have bought it in his own name, you really, truly never know. But he might not have, too. In which case, there's really no better place to look for leads than a big, fat, and -- at its best -- virtually comprehensive and highly searchable online database of public records that are seriouslyso dull in themselves that it's mind-numbing just thinking about how infinitely tedious it will be to keep plowing through them with a mind that's alert to whatever pattern you may (or may not) end up knowing when you see it. Assuming that you have that opportunity before you either run mad or the whole issue becomes obsolete, whichever comes first. Needless to say.

Unless, like me, you actually enjoy doing that. Because it is actually enjoyable, believe it or not. Somewhat time-consuming, for sure. But oddly enjoyable. Or, at the very least, not nearly as bad as the hyperbole immediately above might suggest. It's just kind of an acquired taste. And also a moot point, since I myself don't have LexisNexis access.

So.

The more pertinent information that I'm trying to convey is simply: I'd say that someone with a LexisNexis account could probably (although not certainly) find that (and possibly also other) assets of Hosni Mubarak's lying around here or there and looking dull, if he or she was willing to make a modest effort.

And there may be yet a better way than that, too. Although none is springing to mind just now. I'll keep thinking about it.

[DrVolin]

You'd have to find transfers of property to their anonymous foundations, and then tie them to the foundations, which is next to impossible. They'll leave enough assets in the open to be seized to satisfy the media and might even throw a couple of hidden ones at a corruptible, hungry young prosecutor. Just for later considerations.

[JackRiddler]

... An 82 year old man retired from public life in February instead of September, and his cabinet can now get down to the business of running a country made safe again for big money, secure in the knowledge that the main dissidents have given away their positions by prematurely opening fire on the regime's light cavalry screen. Many an aging dictator, or more likely their ministers, are updating their Continuity of Government powerpoint presentations tonight.

The cabinet was sacked. I doubt the "main dissidents" have given themselves away, since pretty much all of them would have been on police lists long before. I also don't see how it helps them in this scenario of yours to multiply the ranks of the "main dissidents," which is an indisputable outcome of the events.

I suppose it's not impossible that the Mubarak defiance speech was staged to arrange a theatrical catharsis over the last 48 hours, although I doubt it very much. However, before arguing that, first I'll ask you to clarify your position: How far back do you believe these events were staged? Was it already staged on January 25th?

Second, what outcome henceforth would cause you to accept falsification of your hypothesis? For example, if a transition to a constitutional democracy occurs without suppression of the now-exposed dissidents occurs, would you consider the hypothesis falsified, or would the appearance of this also be part of the plan you are positing?

.

[DrVolin]

It looks to me like the staging started about 4 days ago, after the attempt to satisfy the protestors with a transfer of power to the VP (essentially an extended presidential leave) failed. That was clearly plan A, and people didn't go for it at all. I fancy I then saw the emergence of Plan B, which I describe above. I certainly hope the masses keep up the pressure, but with every retreat by the regime, more will be satisfied and fewer will follow the advance. As long as regime forces stay intact, they can counterattack the disorganized and straggling protestors. How much room does the regime have? Is this Kutuzov tiring out the Grande Armée, or is it the BEF with its back to the sea at Dunkirk?

As for falsification, quick free and fair elections, with a significant turn over of political figures (always a hard thing to do in a 30 year dictatorship) will mean at least the failure of the strategy, and possibly its non-existence to begin with. Much harder to track, but much more informative will be the change in control of economic resources. In that sense, Cuba was a real revolution. It sadly led to a new dictatorship, but it caused a genuine change in ownership. Lets see what happens in Egypt. If there are bruised and angry fortunes in the West, angry enough to hit back, then this was no theater.